TN - Chris Newsom, 23, & Channon Christian, 21, murdered, Knoxville, 6 Jan 2007 #12

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I'm thinking we will have a verdict tomorrow am.
 
Muffet said:
So true, Julie, and my heart goes out to you. :hug: I've seen other good parents have kids go bad through their own sorry choices, and I can't imagine the agony.

This mother does look more involved and classy than most, so she might have done her best too.

Without seeing or knowing her though, just going by the odds, it's usually safe to guess that there was neglectful parenting. :sheesh:
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And as I'm sure you well know friend, looks can be really deceiving... it's of no bearing IMO from what socio-economic class this or any other parent comes nor how well-dressed nor how poised... something has gone terribly, horribly wrong--early on--when someone can participate in this sort of situation.

I am FAR from the perfect "wonderful" mother Julie describes... and none of my four children are saints either. But no one could ever convince me they would involve themself in something so hideous and heartless. And I don't care what the circumstances--only what's already in the glass can spill out. JMO

:parrot:
 
Even LD had better parenting than many who turn out fine, between his aunt Rose and the two foster couples. Some people are just bad seeds.
 
I didn't realize that GT was such a big guy?? He towers over the sheriff's deputies and his attornies.
 
kiki the parrot said:
And as I'm sure you well know friend, looks can be really deceiving... it's of no bearing IMO from what socio-economic class this or any other parent comes nor how well-dressed nor how poised... something has gone terribly, horribly wrong--early on--when someone can participate in this sort of situation.

I am FAR from the perfect "wonderful" mother Julie describes... and none of my four children are saints either. But no one could ever convince me they would involve themself in something so hideous and heartless. And I don't care what the circumstances--only what's already in the glass can spill out. JMO

:parrot:
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That's why I added "knowing" to "seeing" her and that while we can't know, the odds are there was neglect. (And it's why I thanked your post, that "there were likely years during which GT's mom probably just figured her son's activities were none of her bidnezz". ;)

But I have personally seen good parents have bad kids, so that's as far as I'll go: odds make it likely.
 
I agree that sometimes people are just bad seeds. I hate to refer to my cousin's son as that but I can't think of him any other way. Her son and daughter were raised in the same home, under the same circumstances. Her daughter is doing very well in the Air Force and her son, well, he's been to jail a couple of times (very short stints), has a four year old daughter that he barely pays child support for, and is unemployed 95% of the time.

I have no idea how GT's mom raised him. She is there at the trial. She seems to have followed along with the trial as if she's geniunely interested in the witnesses testimony, and she hasn't sat on the stand blubbering about saving her son because he had a bad home life. I'm banking on that she must have tried her best otherwise the defense would have brought up what a bad home life GT had if she hadn't.

JMO
 
kiki the parrot said:
I'm sure you're a perfect mother Julie :) We are not talking about an addiction, there is no need to feel defensive. Even if "only" passive participation in a crime of this horrific nature, it is not on the same par at all IMO. Sorry but this stuff doesn't just come out of nowhere.

:parrot:
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I know, but there are many murders in jail that have wonderful families. Something in the brain is just not wired right with these people.......I honestly don't get it, your right it's not on the same level.
 
Muffet said:
Even LD had better parenting than many who turn out fine, between his aunt Rose and the two foster couples. Some people are just bad seeds.
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Neither do I believe sociopaths are born... they are made IMO, somewhere along the way. :(

:parrot:
 
lizzybeth said:
I agree that sometimes people are just bad seeds. I hate to refer to my cousin's son as that but I can't think of him any other way. Her son and daughter were raised in the same home, under the same circumstances. Her daughter is doing very well in the Air Force and her son, well, he's been to jail a couple of times (very short stints), has a four year old daughter that he barely pays child support for, and is unemployed 95% of the time.

I have no idea how GT's mom raised him. She is there at the trial. She seems to have followed along with the trial as if she's geniunely interested in the witnesses testimony, and she hasn't sat on the stand blubbering about saving her son because he had a bad home life. I'm banking on that she must have tried her best otherwise the defense would have brought up what a bad home life GT had if she hadn't.

JMO
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First, that doesn't mean one has simply been dealt a bad genetic hand and the other hasn't, or that this is solely responsible--there are a myriad of other differences beyond the surface environmental ones which can contribute to one person's moral character development vs another. Secondly... that's my whole point, so often parents' involvement only becomes conspicuous once things go terribly horribly awry. Third following a trial says little about upbringing IMO. And last, stay tuned...

:parrot:
 
steelergirl said:
I didn't realize that GT was such a big guy?? He towers over the sheriff's deputies and his attornies.
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I was about to post that myself. I noticed that he is huge compared to the officers and the attorneys around him. He and Demaricus are both big and Cobbins wasn't small either. Makes me even angrier thinking about all of them on Chris and Channon.
 
kiki the parrot said:
Neither do I believe sociopaths are born... they are made IMO, somewhere along the way. :(

:parrot:
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I think it's usually a nature and nurture mix. We are born with biological predispositions and temperaments, and the interactions of them with their environment are what shape us.

But the nurture factor isn't limited to parents' influence, or both parents'. A good girl could do her best to raise a son without a daddy, or with a bad daddy who comes and goes. That's not her fault. A great couple could have a kid with mental or temperamental problems.

I have seen several excellent parents who've had other kids turn out great, and one not. One is a psychopath. One was a nerd who got with the wrong crowd. One got into drugs and was just a petty thief and loser... The list goes on.... But that's why I don't think we can be sure it's the parents' faults.

Odds are that bad parenting is the reason, but it's not always the reason.
 
Muffet said:
That's why I added "knowing" to "seeing" her and that while we can't know, the odds are there was neglect. (And it's why I thanked your post, that "there were likely years during which GT's mom probably just figured her son's activities were none of her bidnezz". ;)

But I have personally seen good parents have bad kids, so that's as far as I'll go: odds make it likely.
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Hey friend, something tells me it might also depend upon how we're defining "good," and "bad..." ;)

:parrot:
 
SuziQ said:
I'm thinking we will have a verdict tomorrow am.
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I would agree. late morning, early afternoon. They have a little more difficult task, deciding which George is a part of. How long was the Cobbins jury out? Usually the say a quick verdict favors the state and long deliberations favor defense. But I think the opposite is true here. If its a quick verdict, I think they jury decides GT didn't have anything to do with it.
 
Muffet said:
I think it's usually a nature and nurture mix. We are born with biological predispositions and temperaments, and the interactions of them with their environment are what shape us.

But the nurture factor isn't limited to parents' influence, or both parents'. A good girl could do her best to raise a son without a daddy, or with a bad daddy who comes and goes. That's not her fault. A great couple could have a kid with mental or temperamental problems.

I have seen several excellent parents who've had other kids turn out great, and one not. One is a psychopath. One was a nerd who got with the wrong crowd. One got into drugs and was just a petty thief and loser... The list goes on.... But that's why I don't think we can be sure it's the parents' faults.

Odds are that bad parenting is the reason, but it's not always the reason.
Click to expand...

(bbm) Bold is precisely why I don't accept the argument (against sociopaths being made) which points to two siblings from the same parents, and so-called "same environment" turning out so differently--doesn't wash w me.

I agree w most of what you say. It's just after 50 years of life experience--and after following as many of these trials as I have in which we learn of the defendants' past--I'm just unable to ignore the early formative years and influences of parental upbringing. So often too it is the ones who are absent during the critical years from whom we see the greatest wailing and gnashing of teeth after the fact. :rolleyes:

My 17 yr-old son, who is home today, popped his head in and asked what I was listening to... and after briefing him on the most recent trial, I didn't have to ask what his reaction was... the revulsion and disgust toward anyone who could participate--on any level--was plain. JMO

:parrot:
 
Has the jury been sent to deliberate yet?
 
I wonder how late the judge will have the jury deliberate? Did he say anything before he sent them out?
 
I remember when another son (my oldest) --now 25--was five years or so he was nearly run over in my nextdoor neighbor's drive--it was on a slope, and my son was bent over in the path of their car as they backed up where he had hurriedly stooped down to rescue a beetle, stranded on it's back...

Either one of my son's would likely have died to protect Channon and prevent her suffering--if, unlike Chris, given an opportunity--even were she a total stranger. IMO there was absolutely nothing stopping GT from leaving and seeking help yet there he sat there rollin and smokin blunts--at the very least watching--sayin it 'wuddn't none o his bidnezz' while makin it his bidnezz to enjoy the nice whip. I hope he's sentenced justly for his heartless, inhumane role in these heinous crimes. :mad:

:parrot:
 
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