CA - Joanna Ramos, 10, dies of head injury from after-school fight, 24 Feb 2012

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^^^

To be able to strike like that takes practice and will, it seems to me. This 11 year-old was a kid who knew how to handle herself in a streetfight and was looking to injure. And transferring out of the school, holing up in her apartment and so on look like attempts to manage the aftermath. What an awful story.

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I wonder what is going to happen with the 11-year-old. I feel there needs to be some serious consequences for her. I realize it was a planned fight, but this girl obviously knew what she was doing and intentionally did the most harm she could. How did she know how to do that at her age? I wouldn't know how to do that and I'm 49.
 
Take this with a grain of salt, but there are comments on some sites that the girl is Black. The victim was Hispanic. Do the politically sensitive math.

There's a lot of tension here between the two groups, as there is in many large cities.

"Grain of salt", because there's still no official description of the other girl.
 
Belinda said:
The fight seemed very minor. I'm wondering if the girl had some kind of pre-existing condition that was exacerbated by the fight. Such as an aneurysm.
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Nope, since any pre-existing conditions should have been noticed in autopsy.
 
HMSHood said:
The girl had some preexisting condition for her to die. The fight was rather bloody for 11 year old girls. They don't like that from what I remember. However, this does not excuse what happens. Over a boyfriend at age 11? That's really messed up! I wonder about the perps in this case, like their upbringing or any behavior problems they had.
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A blow to the head can kill without any pre-existing conditions. I am not sure why that surprises people since people have died from blow to the head, even in official sporting events such as boxing.
 
Belinda said:
Yes, I also came to that conclusion when I learned she had been kneed in the face.
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People can die from a blow (to a head) with a fist too. Look up boxing deaths.
If hit in a right spot, doesn't have to be a knee.
 
JoeFromLB said:
http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_20065351

A fellow student at Willard said Tuesday night it was the 11-year-old who had planned the fight and Ramos had no choice but to face off in an alley located across the street from the school and directly behind the 11-year-old's apartment building. The location of the fight was in view of the school's playground, where children raced around laughing and playing late Tuesday afternoon.

"She was making faces at her" and goading Ramos to fight, the classmate said.

She and several other children at the school said the fight ended when the 11-year-old grabbed Ramos on either side of her head, by her hair, and yanked Ramos' head down while slamming her knee into the 10-year-old's forehead, above her nose.

Children who witnessed the fight said Joanna had blood around her nose and lip. By the time Joanna checked into the after-school program, however, there was no blood and no other obvious signs of trauma, school and police officials have said.
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Thanks for posting the article, Joe. It is very informative.

How does a girl that young even know a fight move like that? *shudder*

Now she and her family have gone into hiding, she has changed school. Is there any remorse?

I would be so riddled with guilt, I would have to reach out to Joanna's family. Or at least have someone issue a statement on my behalf.

This 11 year old cannot be allowed to get away with this.
 
Lovejac said:
Thanks for posting the article, Joe. It is very informative.

How does a girl that young even know a fight move like that? *shudder*

Now she and her family have gone into hiding, she has changed school. Is there any remorse?

I would be so riddled with guilt, I would have to reach out to Joanna's family. Or at least have someone issue a statement on my behalf.

This 11 year old cannot be allowed to get away with this.
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I agree, some kind of charges should be pressed, or at least she should be sent away to Juvie. Joanna deserves some kind of justice, this was homicide, she had the intent to harm/injure her, it was no accident!!!:furious:
 
JoeFromLB said:
http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_20065351

A fellow student at Willard said Tuesday night it was the 11-year-old who had planned the fight and Ramos had no choice but to face off in an alley located across the street from the school and directly behind the 11-year-old's apartment building. The location of the fight was in view of the school's playground, where children raced around laughing and playing late Tuesday afternoon.

"She was making faces at her" and goading Ramos to fight, the classmate said.

She and several other children at the school said the fight ended when the 11-year-old grabbed Ramos on either side of her head, by her hair, and yanked Ramos' head down while slamming her knee into the 10-year-old's forehead, above her nose.

Children who witnessed the fight said Joanna had blood around her nose and lip. By the time Joanna checked into the after-school program, however, there was no blood and no other obvious signs of trauma, school and police officials have said.
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Absolutely unbelievable! The girl needs punished.
 
iamnotagolem said:
Absolutely unbelievable! The girl needs punished.
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I was a pretty wild punk rock teen and never not once body slammed or punched my friend or enemy in face. Dangerous criminal behavior.
 
Children have died falling off their bikes and bumping their head.

It doesn't take too much to shear off a vein, which seems to be what happened here. It just takes the right spot, you know? Natasha Richardson died from the same thing, but it was a far less violent fall she took than what this little child suffered.

I was in many schoolyard fights, all the way through senior high school. I was bullied and tormented. And I dealt with some quite violent girls. To some, blood is not a deterrant, believe me. But never did any of us end up in the hospital...I don't recall ever talking about it with family, either, but there was no cause for me to ever go see a Dr. from the beatings I took. I did break my arm once, but that was because she pushed me and I fell and broke my fall with my wrist. But other than that...nope.

I grieve; for the loss of the child; for the loss of another child to violence and to anger; for the loss of innocence in this day and age; for the loss of security and safety for our children.

I grieve.

Herding Cats
 
Herding Cats said:
Children have died falling off their bikes and bumping their head.

It doesn't take too much to shear off a vein, which seems to be what happened here. It just takes the right spot, you know? Natasha Richardson died from the same thing, but it was a far less violent fall she took than what this little child suffered.

I was in many schoolyard fights, all the way through senior high school. I was bullied and tormented. And I dealt with some quite violent girls. To some, blood is not a deterrant, believe me. But never did any of us end up in the hospital...I don't recall ever talking about it with family, either, but there was no cause for me to ever go see a Dr. from the beatings I took. I did break my arm once, but that was because she pushed me and I fell and broke my fall with my wrist. But other than that...nope.

I grieve; for the loss of the child; for the loss of another child to violence and to anger; for the loss of innocence in this day and age; for the loss of security and safety for our children.

I grieve.

Herding Cats
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:grouphug:

You are an amazing and caring person. :blowkiss:
 
Very sad, how something apparently so minor (the afterschool care didn't notice any problems, and when she checked into the emergency room at 6 p.m, she had "no visible wounds) could end so tragically.

Put that thought next to that horrible incident on CNN yesterday of that young man being struck so hard on the highway that he became airborne and did several somersaults on the pavement - and he's fine.

Sad.
 
JeannaT said:
Very sad, how something apparently so minor (the afterschool care didn't notice any problems, and when she checked into the emergency room at 6 p.m, she had "no visible wounds) could end so tragically.

Put that thought next to that horrible incident on CNN yesterday of that young man being struck so hard on the highway that he became airborne and did several somersaults on the pavement - and he's fine.

Sad.
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I don't know that the fight as described (kneeling someone in a forehead) is minor. My guess is the age of the suspect has much more to do with the fact that there are no charges.
 
jjenny said:
I don't know that the fight as described (kneeling someone in a forehead) is minor. My guess is the age of the suspect has much more to do with the fact that there are no charges.
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I'm just sayin' - sometimes these fluke things happen, although both girls walked away after the fight and no one in her after school care even noticed she was injured.

It was a blood clot, that later developed from a small brain bleed, that killed her - not blunt force trauma.

When you look at this:

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c3#/video/world/2012/05/07/start-russian-man-flipped.cnn

And this, that happened last week:

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/local/austin/man-injured-after-being-hit-by-bus

It's astounding that both young men are fine - apparently each has a simple bone fracture.

It just seems sometimes life is so fragile, sometimes so resilient.
 
JeannaT said:
I'm just sayin' - sometimes these fluke things happen, although both girls walked away after the fight and no one in her after school care even noticed she was injured.

It was a blood clot, that later developed from a small brain bleed, that killed her - not blunt force trauma.

When you look at this:

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c3#/video/world/2012/05/07/start-russian-man-flipped.cnn

And this, that happened last week:

http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/local/austin/man-injured-after-being-hit-by-bus

It's astounding that both young men are fine - apparently each has a simple bone fracture.

It just seems sometimes life is so fragile, sometimes so resilient.
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I'm sorry, I don't see it as minor! It's not like Joanna died of natural causes. This was no fluke. This girl intended to harm her, all over a boy! It was trauma, just took time to develop. I'm sorry she's not being sent to juvie at least...
 
LinasK said:
I'm sorry, I don't see it as minor! It's not like Joanna died of natural causes. This girl intended to harm her, all over a boy! It was trauma, just took time to develop. I'm sorry she's not being sent to juvie at least...
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Yes, and Joanna intended to harm her, over a boy. The article below is interesting, and the mother's viewpoint that it could have just as easily been the other girl who died.

So what's typical to charge two 11 year olds with, for "tussling", as this article says? Neither girl was on the ground, and the encounter lasted about a minute, and "wasn't especially violent, and no weapons were used".

Since we don't have any details at all, even whether the family's feeling that a boy was involved, it's hard to know what to say. Who started it? Who ended it? Since the mother herself doesn't want to hear any of the details it seems unlikely they will ever be made public.

I'm asking this since I don't know - is it typical to charge 11 year old girls who had a mutual "tussell" with a crime? Had it gone the way it was clearly intended - that both girls walk away a little scratched up - would there have been any charges filed? What part does "intent" play into this?

http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/no-charges-in-death-1421226.html
 
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