DC DC - Chandra Levy, 24, Washington DC, 1 May 2001 *found deceased in 2002*

Camper, I do not buy into the school of thought that points to secret government activities as being the reason for many missing persons. I look at the plain old personal relationships as being the cause of most of the missing people.

Of course you can work on the government intrigue, but I look for more simple answers.

benn8

Please drag over any posts that I have made and copy them right here on this thread, where I have indicated 'government intrigue' and massive numbers of missing people!

I only point to two very attractive and above average intelligent women who had direct contact with Condit, who indeed have been murdered.

You have either misquoted me, or have been mistaken about my focus.

Mr. Condit had a habit of bedding a number of females. Mr. Condit was a married man. Mr. Condit had two children. Mr. Condit held security matters of America in his hands.

You did not answer my question as to HOW YOU WOULD report suspicious imigration activities that you had privy to, IF IF you had been Ms. Chiang.

Camper I am not trying to misinterpret what you believe, but you have said yourself that Condit had a problem with extra marital relationships. I don't think Condit had any immigration problems, but you can think that if you want to.

I will try to research what I think is most important, and anyone else can research what they think is most important. Maybe someone will get the right answers.

benn8

Your post says: " I don't think Condit had any immigration problems, but you can think that if you want to.


==============<><

I NEVER said that Condit had imigration problems, He is an American born person.

Indeed we can believe anything we wish. However the fact remains, that imop, the Washington DC police department was taken out of the investigation loop.

ANYONE is free to read Vincent Foster's book, "The Strange Death of Vincent Foster', to understand how investigations involving important DC personages play out, particulary when 'unsolved murders' are involved.

I prefer not to do battle with an unarmed person. If you would go through what I went through to obtain a copy of Foster's book, and read it, then and only then will I continue this thread duel.

We have no duel. I will see if my library has the book.

We need all the ammunition we can get.

Well Condit v. Dunne is back in the news again. The judge has said that Condit can continue his case against Dunne.

Here are some comments I made to a new message board that I found at KGO radio. I don't know if they are strong on message boards. They do have a very active radio talk show program schedule.

Here is what I wrote:

http://boards.abcnews.go.com/cgi/KGO
/request.dll?MESSAGE&room=kgo_
news&id=61117&move=prev

ABC7 News Talk
Do you have a comment about one of the stories you read on abc7news.com or saw on ABC7 News? Share your thoughts about the story with other viewers. Make sure to put the web address of the story in your post so that others know which story you're referring to.

I am commenting on this KGO story:

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/news/
042704ap_nw_condit_case.html

Condit Case Against Magazine Writer To Proceed<<<

Is that good news, or bad news, for former Congressman Gary Condit?

One article at findlaw.com some time back said that Condit should withdraw his case, that discovery at the proceedings might be detrimental to him.

>>>WHY OUTGOING CONGRESSMAN GARY CONDIT IS VERY UNWISE TO SUE AUTHOR DOMINICK DUNNE FOR LIBEL
By JULIE HILDEN
julhil@aol.com
----
Tuesday, Dec. 24, 2002
Found at http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hilden
/20021224.html<<<

Another article at Findlaw.com said that Condit should pursue his case.

>>>By John W. Dean
FindLaw Columnist
Special to CNN.com
Friday, January 31, 2003 Posted: 3:36 PM EST (2036 GMT)
Story Tools<<<

Found at .http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/01
/31/findlaw.analysis.dean.condit/

So there are two opinions about the same lawsuit.

In the meantime if you are a California resident and go to Washington, D.C. and get murdered you might not get very good treatment from law enforcement there.

Chandra Levy, who disappeared on May 1, 2001 was considered to be a missing person, but it took law enforcement 11 weeks before they searched the apartment of Congressman Gary Condit, her intimate friend. That is not the normal practice in missing person cases with a close intimate friend, if I have heard correctly. The police may have asked for a search warrant earler but the DA did not turn the request in to the judge Police Chief Ramsey said something to that effect. Anyway the police did not have a search warrant and could not remove pants that they wanted to take with them from Condit's apartment.

On July 30, 2001 Paul Katz, Chandra's uncle, said on the Larry King Live show that the police knew and the Levys knew that Chandra had keys to Condit's apartment. Even so Connie Chung when she interviewed Condit on TV in August did not ask Condit if Chandra had keys to his apartment. No interviewer that I could find asked Condit if Chandra had keys to his apartment.

Chandra's remains were held a long time in Washington, but the three forensic experts who were working pro bono for the Levy family were not allowed to examine the remains with powerful microscopes.

In the search for Chandra the DC police turned down offers from trained volunteer searchers with dogs to help search for Chandra. The DC police also sent a Stanislaus County law enforcement officer home who was sent to Washington to help look for Chandra.

At one time early on Rep. Gary Condit said that it was not proper to be talking about the investigation. A missing persons case and people should not be discussing it?

Oh well, we will see who was right, Julie Hilden, or James Dean.

benn865

Posted: 6:01 AM, 4/28/2004

Murder on a Horse Trail, The Disappearance of Chandra Levy.

I have the book.
benn8

River Administrator,
>>> Chandra Levy
Does anyone know any updates on this case? It seems so unfair that the Levy's still haven't gotten justice for their daughter!<<<

Hello River, well there is no justice yet, but there are a couple of small developments. The Levys have a new lawyer. That was in the news story from the Washington Post May 1 that was sort of an update on the Levy story. The lawyers name is Steve Mandell, but we don't have an address for him. He may have an office in Southern California. Steve Mandell has a spokesperson.

>>>Susan Anthony. a spokeswoman for the Levy family's new attorney, Steve Mandell, the family is "certainly trying not to be in the limelight."<<<

There is another development and that is the publication of the book I mentioned in my last message. "Murder on a Horse Trail: The Disappearance of Chandra Levy," by Ralph Daugherty the owner of the www.justiceforchandra.com website is now available from iUniverse.com in an ebook, and in paperback and hard cover editions. The book should be in other book stores soon.

I like the book. Of course I am prejudiced since I post at www.justiceforchandra.com, but I think it is good even if I am biased. It is only the second book out about Chandra's disappearance. There is a lot of material in the book, most of it taken from the files of the Justice for Chandra website, and from the WheresChandraLevy.com website that closed down.

It may be hard to get the book out into the public eye, which would be good for the case, if the book does start getting read.

The ebook is a good buy, about $6.00, which is about the cost of shipping on the paperback book, and maybe a little more on the hardcover book. You can order the ebook online, or on the telephone, download it, and be reading it in a couple of hours or so. I had a little trouble with the latest Adobe Reader, but I phoned iUniverse and they helped me out on that. Someone wrote about phoning to buy the book, the hard cover, and he said "nice people."

Well, have to go. I won't be back here unless someone starts posting here. lol

benn8

I don't have anything new about the Chandra Levy case, and still days go by and isn't there something new each day. The new book (only the second one about the Chandra case) came out in April, "Murder on a Horse Trail: The Disappearance of Chandra Levy," by Ralph Daugherty, a computer programmer and also owner of www.justiceforchandra.com.

The book brings up a lot of questions, but to date we have not succeeded in getting anyone to try to answer them. Of course the author is supposed to do that, but all supporters of a just solution to the Chandra case would somehow like to lend a hand.

I bought the paperback book, and also an ebook version. I had a few trials with the ebook version until I learned how to make it work. Because I know how to make it work does not mean that it is going to keep working.

That is just like this Cold Case here, we can not expect things to happen, we have to go out and try to make them happen.

I have been writing to people about the book. I don't have the cash to be giving books away. Anyone who wants to can drop over to www.justiceforchandra.com and read some of the posts there about the book. We also have something new there. You can post a message there in the guest section without signing up as a member. We are really a small site over there, and not in competition with anyone, except the bad guys.

I think the odds have got to change. As the book gets more distribution, and more information becomes known to more people, at least a few people are going to get interested, and maybe some day a key player will suddenly express a few thoughts on this case.

Praise God.

Chandra Levy was likely killed while walking or jogging in the Wash. DC park. Since young women who are alone and not near others aren't usually found in populous DC, the park would be a perfect place for an atttacker to go. Of the millions of people out there who are involved in affairs with married people some will end up being killed ( and some like Amber Frey will be a murder suspect's girlfriend). Despite endless conspiracy theories, Condit likely had nothing to do with her untimely death.

Hello vicktor, well at least you answered my message. I may be a little slow in replying. Not too many people at Websleuths are posting messages about the Chandra Levy case right now.

Ralph Daugherty, author of "Murder on a Horse Trail: The Disappearance of Chandra Levy," visited Rock Creek Park and the area where Chandra's remains were found at least once. He makes some first hand remarks in the book from his own research and experience in the park.

A lot of people have the same opinion that you have expressed, but I am looking more at the person whom I think is the main suspect. One reason I am looking at him is that he seems to be unable to talk since Chandra disappeared. Also everything that he did and said was not investigated thoroughly. For example, the Otis Thomas story has been eliminated from almost all timelines. The FBI was very interested in the story to begin with, but then I don't know what happened. They could not find Otis Thomas's daughter to interview her.

I won't write too much here. I just put in a long post at Google last night. They take a little while to get posted. You might be able to find it there, but I use a different user name there, Nocodemus or Noco43.

Condit lived a life of deception all, or most, or his years in Congress. I do not know what year he started dating women other than his wife, that may have been from day one. That was something he could not reveal to his voters. When his voters found that he was concealing information from them (his secret private affairs), at their first opportunity--the next election--they voted him out of office. That seems to indicate that if the voters had known sooner about Condit's activities that he was concealing from them that they would have voted him out sooner. Condit evidently took the secrecy of his affairs very seriously, because to lose his secrecy might be to lose his career in Congress.

Chandra became an obsticle to his career, wanting to marry him, and also accidently revealing his name to her aunt Linda Zambsky (or Katz). Strange that the DC Police termed so much information as Rumors.

When Chandra disappeared Condit may not have known that Chandra had accidently revealed his name to her aunt, but her question to him about Jennifer Thomas must have brought warning signals to him. Condit may have thought that Chandra's disappearance would rid him of secrecy problems, but Chandra had talked to her family, and Linda Zambsky revealed to the world that Chandra had been dating Rep. Gary Condit.

About three weeks after Chandra told her mother that "he explained it all," Chandra disappeared. I am wondering why Chandra would not have said that "he said that the Otis Thomas story was a lie." Instead Chandra said "he explained it all," which is a little vague.

Anyway the FBI quieted that story down fast when they could have investigated it more.

Gotta go. Murder on a Horse Trail does not solve the murder, but it gives a lot of information that can be used to look at the case longer and more carefully.

The book is beginning to sell, but a self published book does not always take off in sales right away, if at all.

The ebook version is the least expensive $6.00 downloadable from the publisher iUniverse.com. I had a few problems with Adobe, but I learned what to do, and IUniverse helped me out by sending another link to the book when I had somehow damaged the first link. An ebook is word searchable which makes it interesting.

Regards, benn8

I thought that Connie Chung blew the interview with Condit. I must be the only one because news reports said how great &#8211;she was so tough. I felt she could have used more finesse. She put him on the defensive and that is no way to get information to slip out.

My Mom lived in the District and it is a study in contrast so powerful and wealthy yet so poor and seedy, so magnificent but so miserable. The water was not fit to even brush your teeth with, the infrastructure was poorly maintained, it&#8217;s mayor was corrupt and you could leave a lush embassy party and see someone eating out of a trash can in front. Make no mistake it is a very dangerous place with a high crime rate. Many unstable people have traveled to DC attracted to the center of government that often figures in their delusions.

Rock Creek Park is lovely. Too bad a wooded area has to be looked at as cover for a predator or street people instead of a wildlife habitat or place of pleasant seclusion.

That all said Condit is sneaky and a liar and showed an astonishing lack of compassion for if nothing else one of his constituents which leaves him open to suspicion. IMO

Jade, I hope you get a chance to read "Murder on a Horse Trail: The Disappearance of Chandra Levy." With the National Enquirer book about Chandra my local library has a copy in every branch library, but the NE book was a less expensive book.

I don't know what the solution is to get the book out into the public eye. It is sort of a specialiy book, and people have to do a certain type of reading to want to buy a copy of Murder on a Horse Trail.

benn8

Hi benn and Jade and Viktor,

I saw some comments here on the Chandra case and registered to post here at Websleuths. My site at www.justiceforchandra.com is pretty specialized so its great to have more people here able to see and comment on Chandra's case, as I see from the number of active viewers at websleuths.com.

I hope to be able to pass on something from my experience in writing Murder on a Horse Trail:The Disappearance of Chandra Levy. We can post away here whether you've seen the book or not. I'll quote from it when it helps.

I think the most important thing is to deal with the common perception that Viktor, and for some reason it is usually men, express concerning Chandra being an all too common victim in a park. The rest is irrelevant if it is reasonable and likely that the cause of her murder was being in a secluded park alone.

One of the goals of my book is to show how that is not only not likely, but nearly unbelievable. I wish everyone could not only know the circumstances under which Chandra disappeared, not having a ticket home, telling her landlord a couple days prior to wait till the next day after she disappeared before she would be able to tell him when she was leaving, and in the midst of that uncertainty supposedly hiking for miles on a rough dirt and rock horse trail up into a lonely secluded mountaintop primevial forest that would spook the hardiest of you were to you to make that hike and videotape it.

I saw two couples with their dogs on an entire Friday afternoon in those woods where she was found. What has not been clearly explained is that she was found down the side of a steep hill below a picnic area where you can pull your car or horse trailer back into the woods to unload. In other words, it was an ideal spot to dump a body and an unbelievable spot to find a lone woman alive.

Also usually overlooked are two crime scene situations that are tell tale indications of being murdered by someone she knew: her body was found hundreds of feet down a steeply slanted and very difficult to traverse hillside, yet a hillside with too many trees for the body to roll there, and her insignia ring with 'CL' and her gold bracelet recently given her by Condit were missing but not found pawned anywhere. That is every indication of someone hiding her body and trying to make it look like a robbery, because they couldn't follow through as in a real robbery of a deadbeat drifter and pawn the jewelry. That's a dead giveaway.

The words jog in a park are easy to say and visualize. Replace jog in a park with a vertical climb up a mountain on a rough horse trail for half a mile in the deep solitude of a national forest and it is not a vision any woman would believe took place by another woman alone, without a cell phone, without her pepper spray, without so much as anything from her wallet, with nothing but the keys to her apartment, also missing. And with no id, only someone who knew her would know what door those keys unlocked.

Ralph Daugherty
author, Murder on a Horse Trail: The Disappearance of Chandra Levy

Hello ralph, it is good that maybe there can be more discussion here about the Chandra Levy case. I posted on a news group today that more Legwork is needed in the Chandra Levy case. We can do some of the legwork here, but it is the police and the media who will have to do more legwork also, because they have the authority and the crime labs, etc.

Legwork is what made the old Dragnet policemen good policemen, plenty of legwork.

I am a little puzzled about Chandra's gold bracelet. Would she have been wearing her gold bracelet while jogging alone in the park? That does not seem too likely.

More likely she would have worn her gold bracelet if she was meeting someone whom she knew and was going to be with them. She would not have ran over to the park to meet someone. They would have met her at her apartment, or close by.

Carolyn was in town so Chandra would not have met Condit at his apartment. That leaves a question hanging, and I will let it hang here for anybody else to comment on who wants to.

If Condit did not meet Chandra outside of her apartment, and he could have, who else might have picked up Chandra in a car at her apartment to take her to a rendezvous?

As an older person I will just make one comment about our younger generations of today. I think they are a little too trusting.

benn8

I am intriqued by your appearance here rd, Ralph, I followed this case for substantial time, then became disallusioned by the non results coming from the DC PD.

Tell me, do you cover extensive information on our 'prime' suspect Mr. Condit?

For example did you determine the factual aspects of 'his' requirement that none ? of his female daliances carry personal identification during their 'times' with him?

Also did you ever note the unusual quality of the necklace that Joyce Chiang wore in her missing poster pictures. I thought it to be high quality jewelry that a 'friend' might have given to her. Also that the piece itself could have been tracked to the jewelry shop where it was purchased? Perhaps the same shop where the watch was purchased for a different friend of Condits, by Condit. I thought the piece so unusual that I actually made a duplicate of it for myself. All I have is speculation and observation, and reading and hearing information on the murders.

Additional thought, of course the necklace could have been given to her by a friend, or could have been a birthday gift, or ?? but it was not a run of the mill discount store piece of jewelry imop.

I do of course think, that there had in fact been a 'close' connection between Joyce and Mr. Condit.

One last question why do you feel that the police searches were not effective? Did they use bloodhounds, do you know in their searches for Chandra.

I shall get your book, I have three books in line first to read, and I am a slow reader, because of my 'real life' not enough time to sit and read steadily.

Well, I am here because benn got a conversation going about Chandra's case and there are some sharp people here, and as he says that is a good thing. I believe I delve into every aspect of discussions we had on the various crime boards on Chandra's case in the last three years, of course the majority of the discussions taking place that summer.

Murder on a Horse Trail presents information and analysis on all aspects of her disappearance but leaves the questions for the reader to ponder. I tried to write this true crime as a murder mystery. We will see how well readers accept that, as it is neither a fanciful murder mystery wrapped up with a bow tie ending nor a police procedural ending in a conviction. It is more a police non-procedural wrapped up in mystery.

I think the veteran posters such as yourself will be pleased at how all the details you wonder about are covered and presented as part of understanding what happened, and in fact some key points in the book were provided from some internet posts. Larry King, Greta, Dateline, and Geraldo provide the dialogue for the story, and the real investigative reporting provided by Allan Lengel, Michael Doyle, and Niles Lathem. I add my analysis of recreating her last day by looking at what was found on her computer and describing the trek on the horse trail.

I mention the circumstances of Joyce Chiang's disappearance in the book, but didn't go into her murder in depth. There's definitely a story there though.

benn, asking who could have driven her there dead or alive is one question, but I think another way to ask that is, who was close to Chandra and what is their alibi for when she disappeared Tuesday afternoon? I look into that in depth in the book.

rd

<i>Camper wrote:

One last question why do you feel that the police searches were not effective? Did they use bloodhounds, do you know in their searches for Chandra.

I shall get your book, I have three books in line first to read, and I am a slow reader, because of my 'real life' not enough time to sit and read steadily.</i>


In the chapter Rock Creek Park I point out several reasons the searches were ineffective, starting with the FBI not getting back to the DC police with what was on Chandra's computer for two and a half months. If your daughter or loved one were missing and the police couldn't even determine what was on her computer as a clue where to look for two and half months, you would have to wonder why that is. If your daughter was the girlfriend of a Congressman and she disappeared in Washington, DC and the FBI were the ones who couldn't tell you what was on her computer, then incompetence can't help but blur into conspiracy.

The DC police also refused help from search teams with dogs and ordered the Modesto police to turn over any information they had and to not investigate. It appears that the search in Rock Creek Park as wel as the search of Condit's apartment around the same time were nothing more than public relations exercises meant to make people go away and leave Washington to be Washington, home of diplomatic immunity for more than foreign diplomats.

Thanks, let me know what you think of Murder on a Horse Trail when you get a chance to read it. Only three books to go, and you're a slow reader? It'll be awhile.

rd

IF you have not read the book "The Strange Death of Vincent Foster" by Christopher Ruddy it appears that your and my assessment of the foot dragging techniques by 'Investigating Washington DC bodies' is a well taught and learned ability.
This book is very difficult to find, you just about have to 'know someone' or make dozens of querys to find 'it'

rd, you posted,
Thanks, let me know what you think of Murder on a Horse Trail when you get a chance to read it. Only three books to go, and you're a slow reader? It'll be awhile.

rd

I will not be slow in getting it and it will be in my pile soon.

Wonderful. Thanks much, camper.

rd

rd, I will have to look again in the book about that close friend of Chandra's. What I am wondering is what kind of friends did the friend have. After all a Congressman can have many different friends.

Oops, I just let that slip out there.

Camper, you may be the best detective here. I did not get your Vincent Foster book yet, a snafu at the library, my snafu. Amazon.com probably has it, and I will look there. I don't like to have to read a book in a hurry. It is easier to read a used book.

benn8