Casey's seizure? NEW INFORMATION 2011.09.08

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Seizure disorders are a funny thing. You cannot always capture "abnormal" activity. I can also tell you that seizures can be very unique to each person. My sons seizures are not like anyone else's necessarily and a lot has to do with where they originate.

Don't forget there are many kinds of seizures and they can be extremely subtle.

Not guessing if she does or doesn't, we just don't have enough info.

JBean, I didn't realize this thread was 11 pages long so if this has been brought up--SiA.

Have you seen those dogs that are trained to alert right before a person is going to have a seizure? I saw it on some documentary tv show....quite amazing. And I would think quite valuable to those who have seizures.

moo
 
So what it boils down to is that without documented evidence, either by EEG, CT/MRI, or the observation of personnel, that any seizure focus exists, or seizure like activity has been observed, we have to take Casey's word for it?
Well that would be true of anything. If KC said she had cancer we would have to take her word for it if we did not have documented evidence.
I think the report by Jesse is reasonable for the grand mal seizure. As far as any other activity, if the one witnessed by JG is accurate it would not be surprising to see she suffers from other types of seizures as well.
However, if you mean to actually use this disorder within her defense, it could and would be documented and we wouldn't just take her word for it.
 
JBean, I didn't realize this thread was 11 pages long so if this has been brought up--SiA.

Have you seen those dogs that are trained to alert right before a person is going to have a seizure? I saw it on some documentary tv show....quite amazing. And I would think quite valuable to those who have seizures.

moo
Oh yes they are awesome. Different dogs can help before and/or after a seizure.
 
But if it's a very subtle thing in her sleep ( ha) and she wakes up in her normal state of health, then she can hardly claim that it affects her behavior, which is what it sounds like she is angling for.

Good God....I never even thought of that! If she is asleep when they happen..how the heck does she know what's happened?! Geesh!
 
Oh yes they are awesome. Different dogs can help before and/or after a seizure.

I would imagine they are difficult to come by. They probably only let those who have seizures very frequently have them. Right?
 
But if it's a very subtle thing in her sleep ( ha) and she wakes up in her normal state of health, then she can hardly claim that it affects her behavior, which is what it sounds like she is angling for.

From my understanding it's the wakeful seizures that mostly go unnoticed for simple partial seizures
And even if a a seizure only lasted a few seconds or minutes, the symptoms can go on for days. .... disorientation, memory issues, irritability, behavioural changes- the list is endless.

But 31 days? Not buying it- They might try to sell it out of desperation, but I doubt that any Jury would fall for it.

But I do believe they will try.
 
Being a seizure sufferer myself I believe Casey likely does suffer from them given the mention of her abnormal menstrual period (there is a direct link between female epileptics and polycystic ovarian syndrome), her night sweats, nightmares, mood swings and behaviour in general, perceived lying and blatant lying, sleep pattern, argh, too many reasons to list! Im sure the USA is more advanced than here in Australia, epilepsy is grossly misunderstood here and often difficult to diagnose. Unless you have ever experienced the terror of having a seizure or an aura or episode of altered reality or memory loss as the result of a seizure, heck even the basic fuzzy nauseated feeling afterward or the lingering confusion, it can be difficult to understand what its truly like. Most people assume you jerk around on the ground a bit, end of story. If Casey has this condition and hasn't been properly diagnosed, treated and managed ANYTHING could have happened to poor little Caylee and even Casey herself probably wouldn't know imo.
 
I still wonder of what's going on with her lately is in fact nightmares.


but so far as the seizure JG witnessed - I guess no one knows all possible causes and it is not always epilepsy. when I was 8 I had several grand mal seizures one day including the last one in the dr's office and I was in hospital for 8 days for observation and test after test which showed nothing and it never ever happened again.

(FWIW I didnt kill anyone accidentally amidst them either :) )

what role does sleep deprivation play? I was wondering since we learned her phone use was nearly 24/7 what possible role sleep deprivation played in any of this and by her letters she still appears to not sleep normally.
 
I have experienced a severe seizure and had no recollection of what occurred. The experience took hours according to my husband who witnessed it. I had no memory of it whatsoever. EEG detected nothing. So I can believe KC has had one before (the JG incident) but it could have been isolated and environmentally triggered. KC appears to be the type of individual who thrives on the attention of drama. She invents disorders like GA's stroke, it provides her with an excuse to avoid something she doesn't want to do and it garners her sympathy (meunchousen by proxy?). Because of this I have to doubt anything KC says about her medical condition(s) and her motives behind claiming to have them. Some of her behaviors seem like night terrors......I really hope she is experiencing night terrors! (sorry, evil of me)
 
Being a seizure sufferer myself I believe Casey likely does suffer from them given the mention of her abnormal menstrual period (there is a direct link between female epileptics and polycystic ovarian syndrome), her night sweats, nightmares, mood swings and behaviour in general, perceived lying and blatant lying, sleep pattern, argh, too many reasons to list! Im sure the USA is more advanced than here in Australia, epilepsy is grossly misunderstood here and often difficult to diagnose. Unless you have ever experienced the terror of having a seizure or an aura or episode of altered reality or memory loss as the result of a seizure, heck even the basic fuzzy nauseated feeling afterward or the lingering confusion, it can be difficult to understand what its truly like. Most people assume you jerk around on the ground a bit, end of story. If Casey has this condition and hasn't been properly diagnosed, treated and managed ANYTHING could have happened to poor little Caylee and even Casey herself probably wouldn't know imo.

BBM: ITA. Hormonal imbalance can manifest horrific physical, mental and emotional problems. Usually something foreign to one's environment (new drugs, new location, unusual food, unusual stress) "triggers" an event. Occasionally the result is a seizure....occasionally, okay, rarely....and I do believe a person could kill while suffering the effects of a seizure and/or aura etc., but to engage in a cover-up following an accidental killing during a seizure???? Not buying it for one minute and I don't think the SA will leave that base uncovered...
 
BBM: ITA. Hormonal imbalance can manifest horrific physical, mental and emotional problems. Usually something foreign to one's environment (new drugs, new location, unusual food, unusual stress) "triggers" an event. Occasionally the result is a seizure....occasionally, okay, rarely....and I do believe a person could kill while suffering the effects of a seizure and/or aura etc., but to engage in a cover-up following an accidental killing during a seizure???? Not buying it for one minute and I don't think the SA will leave that base uncovered...

For female seizure sufferers the menstrual cycle exacerbates seizure activity, progesterone is the cause. Lots of things can trigger events, stress, sleep deprivation, rushing around, skipping meals to name but a few. I completely agree with your point about not buying a cover up following an accidental killing, I'd like to know though if Casey has even been diagnosed with having seizures?
 
Seizure disorders are a funny thing. You cannot always capture "abnormal" activity. I can also tell you that seizures can be very unique to each person. My sons seizures are not like anyone else's necessarily and a lot has to do with where they originate.

Don't forget there are many kinds of seizures and they can be extremely subtle.

Not guessing if she does or doesn't, we just don't have enough info.

Thanks, and I see you are very right...I just pulled out my ICD-9 index (medical coding book), and the listings for the diagnoses of seizures takes up a whole page of small font. Epilepsy, stroke and heart disease appear to be some underlying causes, all different levels of care that would follow these diagnoses.
 
Just to add my 2cents in here: The main problem here about Did Casey have a seizure or Is she faking, is that even she could not tell you for sure. As some one has noted above, every seizure is unique to that person. Although they seem to be lumped into a few names. I believe that JG did see her have that seizure. There is NO way someone can fake blue lips & that type of shaking. Casey would have to be one HELL of an actress to do that.

My husband has what they call Partial Complex seizures. It did not come forward until our late 20's(we have lived with it for 15 years) & it took us many years to get it pinpointed to this. Just one day at work he had slopped down and looked straight ahead like a zombie. Luckily a co-worker had a son who lived with Grand Mals or I would have NEVER known it was a seizure. I would have always thought he was just "ignoring me". lol

Until we found the correct medicine combo, we went through many many EEG's (and a few drs) to see if we could pinpoint it. I went through many years of him just seizing on a whim. Because Seizures are tricky, it is hard to get them diagnosed right off the bat. And with Casey in jail right now, they are not going to do this testing unless she is flat out showing hard signs.

If so, wouldn't it be told to the media by now?

To this day my husband has no idea he has had a seizure. He looses 4 seconds of his life each time. When he is awake his symptoms are lip smacking, pulling air in between his teeth, pulling an imaginary thread from his hand, staring straight ahead like a zombie (the look gives you killing cold chills inside.), turns up the TV and then yells at me to turn it up more or flips through the channels in fast mode. He has even pulled out his cell phone and dialed a contact. Leaving me to almost fight with him to give me the phone so I can tell the person to ignore this call. When he comes back to my world, he rubs his nose and asks if we have anything good to eat.


I really hope they do not use this as their defense for those who really suffer with Epilepsy every day. I notice Casey nervously rubbing her hands and looking forward, but I have yet to get that cold chilling feeling from her "seizure like" stares.

However, like stated before...everyone is unique.
This has been imho, of course. :)
 
I still wonder of what's going on with her lately is in fact nightmares.


but so far as the seizure JG witnessed - I guess no one knows all possible causes and it is not always epilepsy. when I was 8 I had several grand mal seizures one day including the last one in the dr's office and I was in hospital for 8 days for observation and test after test which showed nothing and it never ever happened again.

(FWIW I didnt kill anyone accidentally amidst them either :) )

what role does sleep deprivation play? I was wondering since we learned her phone use was nearly 24/7 what possible role sleep deprivation played in any of this and by her letters she still appears to not sleep normally.
BBM-
Some studies show that sleep deprivation can induce seizures, but the newer ones are saying there isn't as much of a link as they first thought.
So the jury is still out on this one.
 
Why is KC not seeking medical treatment in jail if she if having seizures? I don't get it. I HATE doctors (b/c I've had to spend too much time in hospital) but I know that there are some things I just have to bite the bullet and go see the doc for. If I were having seizures, I'd be scared **itless! And I'd go to the doctor! I don't get it. Are jail docs more terrible than regular docs or what?
moo

In her letters she says that she wants to get checked for breast cancer (hasn't she heard of self exams?) and cervical cancer. But she says somethng along the lines of 'NO thanks! I don't need that right now.'

She also mentioned her med ins ran out 'last year'.... Do you even need medical insurance when your an inmate? I thought the tax-payers footed the bill for that one.:waitasec:

ETA:
Heres the direct quote from the letters:
I've been thinking about getting tested for breast cancer and having them check the cell count on the pre-cervical cancer, but I have a feeling that will constitute a trip to the hospital. NO thanks. Not right now.
It sucks not having any health insurance- mine expired at the end of the year. What prompted my worry even before seeing that article was my extreme irregularity with my period: stopping a month, bleeding non-stop for weeks, then nothing for a couple of weeks. NO matter how much I pray against it, I'm still scared out of my whits that I'll make it through all of this and then have to jump into cancer treatments. Sorry. One of those days. :-(
 
BBM-
Some studies show that sleep deprivation can induce seizures, but the newer ones are saying there isn't as much of a link as they first thought.
So the jury is still out on this one.
My son's neurologist said that sleep deprivation can cause seizures in just about anyone. The whole thing about seizures is your threshhold. My son, as an epileptic, has a very low threshhold. the idea is to avoid the triggers that take him to that threshhold. For him,it is sleep deprivation and missed meals. For me and you it would take more than that, but after so much time that would possibly even give us regular joes a seizure too. But the bottom line is they do not know what causes my son and many other epileptics to have a low threshhold in the first place.
 
Drugs and/or alcohol can also cause a seizure. I doubt she is doing either in the pokey but then again do I believe she's having them anyway? She's a bit of a hypochondriac IMO, based on the letters alone that is what I'm getting.
 
Just to add my 2cents in here: The main problem here about Did Casey have a seizure or Is she faking, is that even she could not tell you for sure. As some one has noted above, every seizure is unique to that person. Although they seem to be lumped into a few names. I believe that JG did see her have that seizure. There is NO way someone can fake blue lips & that type of shaking. Casey would have to be one HELL of an actress to do that.

My husband has what they call Partial Complex seizures. It did not come forward until our late 20's(we have lived with it for 15 years) & it took us many years to get it pinpointed to this. Just one day at work he had slopped down and looked straight ahead like a zombie. Luckily a co-worker had a son who lived with Grand Mals or I would have NEVER known it was a seizure. I would have always thought he was just "ignoring me". lol

Until we found the correct medicine combo, we went through many many EEG's (and a few drs) to see if we could pinpoint it. I went through many years of him just seizing on a whim. Because Seizures are tricky, it is hard to get them diagnosed right off the bat. And with Casey in jail right now, they are not going to do this testing unless she is flat out showing hard signs.

If so, wouldn't it be told to the media by now?

To this day my husband has no idea he has had a seizure. He looses 4 seconds of his life each time. When he is awake his symptoms are lip smacking, pulling air in between his teeth, pulling an imaginary thread from his hand, staring straight ahead like a zombie (the look gives you killing cold chills inside.), turns up the TV and then yells at me to turn it up more or flips through the channels in fast mode. He has even pulled out his cell phone and dialed a contact. Leaving me to almost fight with him to give me the phone so I can tell the person to ignore this call. When he comes back to my world, he rubs his nose and asks if we have anything good to eat.


I really hope they do not use this as their defense for those who really suffer with Epilepsy every day. I notice Casey nervously rubbing her hands and looking forward, but I have yet to get that cold chilling feeling from her "seizure like" stares.

However, like stated before...everyone is unique.
This has been imho, of course. :)
Oh I can sure relate! when my son was about 8, he started having drop seizures. We would be walking in the mall and all of the sudden he was on the ground. Not unconscious, just looking at me.
I got irritated with him for awhile and said what are you doing!? He just looked at me and said I don't know Mom. He had not had a tonic clonic in a long while so I did not put it together right away. Then the light went on and I took him to a neurologist that confirmed it. He also had absent seizures like you describe and bless his heart he would miss large chunks of information in school but not know why he couldn;t follow the course material and he didn't tell me. Needless to say school was very difficult for him.My son does not remember anything from about an hour before and a couple hours after his tonic clonic seizures and he is drunk like and combative post ictal. He has no recollection of any of his seizures at all or anything he says or does after.

I concur that KC did have a seizure in front of JG but it doesn't necessarily mean she has a seizure disorder. But it cannot be ruled out either from the information we have. Clearly it would be diagnosed on symptoms and diagnostic testing. KNowing how she mixes fact with fantasy I suspect she had a seizure from some outside cause and then continues to capitalize on it through her story telling. My son does not ever talk about his seizures because he doesn;t want them to exist LOL.
 
BBM-
Some studies show that sleep deprivation can induce seizures, but the newer ones are saying there isn't as much of a link as they first thought.
So the jury is still out on this one.
For my husband, if he does NOT get the right amount of sleep for his body, he will have a seizure.
The sad thing about Epilepsy is that even the Neurologists are not sure how or what can trigger one in everyone.
 
Oh I can sure relate! when my son was about 8, he started having drop seizures. We would be walking in the mall and all of the sudden he was on the ground. Not unconscious, just looking at me.
I got irritated with him for awhile and said what are you doing!? He just looked at me and said I don't know Mom. He had not had a tonic clonic in a long while so I did not put it together right away. Then the light went on and I took him to a neurologist that confirmed it. He also had absent seizures like you describe and bless his heart he would miss large chunks of information in school but not know why he couldn;t follow the course material and he didn't tell me. Needless to say school was very difficult for him.My son does not remember anything from about an hour before and a couple hours after his tonic clonic seizures and he is drunk like and combative post ictal. He has no recollection of any of his seizures at all or anything he says or does after.

I concur that KC did have a seizure in front of JG but it doesn't necessarily mean she has a seizure disorder. But it cannot be ruled out either from the information we have. Clearly it would be diagnosed on symptoms and diagnostic testing. KNowing how she mixes fact with fantasy I suspect she had a seizure from some outside cause and then continues to capitalize on it through her story telling. My son does not ever talk about his seizures because he doesn;t want them to exist LOL.

I'm so sorry to hear that it has hit your Son at such a young age. At least, for us, Hubby was able to feel normal during his school years.

I also think that Casey has taken her one time experience and ran with it! My husband is still embarrassed to talk about his episodes on a daily bases.

During the first couple of years after I mentioned to him "You just had a seizure, you might want to sit still for a moment." he would flatly tell me "You don't know what you're talking about..I DID NOT!" Yet when I asked him to recount the last thing he did, it was always something about a minute before & after the episodes. He too takes a while to "come back".

Without giving "someone" more material on seizures... people setting up for concerts need to keep in mind that the strobe light is not a "COOL" thing if they leave the thing running through out the whole 3-4 minute song!lol Hubby has been known to grab a strangers phone (off the guys belt loop.. try explaining THAT to a big tattoo- drunk man not to knock the man seizing next to him out) and try to dial ME.

Over the years I have learned to stay within arms length of him during an episode. Hubby has grabbed for things on my body (phone, fingers, clothes, etc. Thinking they were his) or poked me in the sides. My job is to make sure he is safe during his time away from my world. For years I too was angry when he would start doing those things...thinking he was being mean! I have learned to test him now.. if he answers me in a question form (he has a different tone while in this type of seizure) then I know it's is Partial Complex.

While reading through the threads, I noticed that Casey mentioned in a letter, that she felt "fuzzy" after her episodes in her sleep. I'm not sure I can believe that as being a true seizure. My husband has never mentioned what his body feels like as he is coming out of one. Mainly because he has no clue. Now after is a different story. His body is very drained & needs sleep.

Sorry to go OT. ;) Delete if you must.
 
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