IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #5

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So, after 7+ days and 5 threads this appears to be a true stranger abduction? Not good for these young ones not good at all. Lots of time wasted. moo
 
This is such a strange case - it's like they disappeared into thin air! What I can imagine, if there is in fact their scents going into the woods, is that the girls saw a squirrel or rabbit or dog or something that compelled them to jump off their bikes and go check it out. Something that happened to be there or someone who had something that caught their attention. I'm not even sure the perp or perps were out looking for someone to kidnap, but the whole thing fell into place and they seized the opportunity. The bikes lying down makes me think they saw something and ran off to check it out. My daughter does that with her bike - just drops it and off she goes to look at flowers or sees a friend or whatever.

Anyone passing by could have moved the kids bikes so they were out of the way. I'm not sure I wouldn't have done the same.
 
Some quick thoughts from a local...these are my interpretations of all I have read, heard, and seen...I apologize I don't have links to everything, but maybe some can confirm/refute what I think I remember.

The timeline:
11:30am - Grandma OK's a bike ride
12:15pm - Grandma sees girls across the street, behind Lederman's
12:15pm - Video footage of girls leaving the area
12:20pm - Approximately...cyclist swerves to miss two kids' bikes laying on the trail
12:27pm - Cyclist phones daughter with his cell phone from nearby gas station (IMO, could have covered that distance in under 5 mins)
2:00 pm - Grandma, mother, brother begin driving and searching
2:45 pm - Witness at Meyers Lake parking area tells of seeing girls on trail nearby
2:45 pm - Girls reported missing to police - park is 2 blocks from police station
3:00 pm - LE "swarms" the lake area
4:00 pm - Approximate...firefighter (they are mostly volunteers in E'dale) discovers bikes
After 4:00pm - Cyclist learns girls are missing (I think he sees a search group), reports his earlier sighting of the bikes, confirms time of phone call
I'm guessing, since LE was operating at that time as if the girls had gone in the lake, that the bikes were moved by the firefighter or other LE, and when Abben arrived they'd been propped against the fence. Just a guess, but based on what we've heard (cyclist says bikes were laying on trail, Abben says bikes propped "when he arrived.")


It seems, if we can count on that video being the girls, and the cyclists time being correct, then the window of opportunity for the perp is very small. Given that, and what I personally have witnessed of the area, here is a possible scenario:

Perp is in lake area, has backed a vehicle thru the brush into the woods near where the trail is secluded. His vehicle can be parked in those woods and not seen from the road or the trail (and I know I saw tire tracks leading in there, reported to police, photographed, etc). He's out of his vehicle, walking up and down that portion of trail. The girls enter the "trap," and he somehow - by luring or by force - gets them off the bikes and into his waiting vehicle, and pulls out onto Arbutus Ave, drives away, leaving the bikes on the trail. Perhaps the purse was dropped in the woods, around the fence, when he was putting the girls in the vehicle. Minutes later, the cyclist happens past the bikes. If perp's local, he can be at home or wherever before the grandmother notices the girls are missing. The river, and many remote locations, are mere minutes away. If he's not local, he could have gotten to Hwy 20 within 3-5 mins, and be traveling west, north, or south (Hwy 218 intersects Hwy 20 within a mile of him getting on) at 60mph for 2+ hours before police are notified. This would give him time to reach I-35, or even to loop back and go east, almost to the Mississippi River.

All speculation on my part, fwiw. Obviously I am biased having seen tracks in the woods. If those tracks were not made by LE (which I doubt, as they repeatedly gained access to the trail/lake w/o having to plow thru woods with a vehicle, and doing so would/could be dangerous, considering the girls may have been in that underbrush), they are incredibly suspicious. I have not heard any LE and/or press mention them, ONLY ME, so again, this is pure speculation. A perp could also simply have had his vehicle backed into the woods there partway, so as to shield only the rear of his vehicle in the woods, or he could have had his vehicle waiting as far as Arbutus, and somehow gotten the girls that far (altho that is close to a block - maybe 100 yds - from where the bikes were found).

This all depends on the girls making it from where/when the camera recorded them, to the lake, in that time. I will definitely double-check that distance tomorrow, but IMO, they'd have to be racing to make it, from Brovan, to Sipple, to Morrell and over to the trail, or just to Evans, and then south to the lake. I'd bet I could do it, tbh. Two young girls on kids bikes, tho? :dunno:
 
Hello ya'll who have been closely following this case. I follow another case but this one caught my attention also. I've spent some time reading here and there on the various threads and have a general idea of what has been reported thus far. By no means an I as knowledgeable as most of you are. I have a question. It was reported in an earlier thread, and I have no idea which one, that one of the girls had a cell phone that wasn't active but that games could be played on it. My question is would the phone still be able to take pictures?
 
One thing is certain: when that police tape comes down (when I arrived at work 12 hours ago I heard it would be), you will all see pics of that trail section, and those woods, if not by press, then by me. I will also be double-checking those tire tracks. I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds here, or being over-zealous about seeing some evidence that I think may have been overlooked. But I can see that damn lake out my window. My kids sleep a 3-wood shot away. My 4-yr old son has asked me 7 days in a row now if I've found Elizabeth. I know I can't return to "business as usual" until these thoughts/questions are put to rest. If LE tells me that they had a vehicle in there, I will let it go. But the girl on the other end of the tipline did not indicate that they had.
 
One thing is certain: when that police tape comes down (when I arrived at work 12 hours ago I heard it would be), you will all see pics of that trail section, and those woods, if not by press, then by me. I will also be double-checking those tire tracks. I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds here, or being over-zealous about seeing some evidence that I think may have been overlooked. But I can see that damn lake out my window. My kids sleep a 3-wood shot away. My 4-yr old son has asked me 7 days in a row now if I've found Elizabeth. I know I can't return to "business as usual" until these thoughts/questions are put to rest. If LE tells me that they had a vehicle in there, I will let it go. But the girl on the other end of the tipline did not indicate that they had.

Yes, please don't give up until you have confirmation from LE that they know about those tire tracks. This could be important, and I'd rather be over-zealous now than remorseful later.
 
Some quick thoughts from a local...these are my interpretations of all I have read, heard, and seen...I apologize I don't have links to everything, but maybe some can confirm/refute what I think I remember.

The timeline:
11:30am - Grandma OK's a bike ride
12:15pm - Grandma sees girls across the street, behind Lederman's
12:15pm - Video footage of girls leaving the area
12:20pm - Approximately...cyclist swerves to miss two kids' bikes laying on the trail
12:27pm - Cyclist phones daughter with his cell phone from nearby gas station (IMO, could have covered that distance in under 5 mins)
2:00 pm - Grandma, mother, brother begin driving and searching
2:45 pm - Witness at Meyers Lake parking area tells of seeing girls on trail nearby
2:45 pm - Girls reported missing to police - park is 2 blocks from police station
3:00 pm - LE "swarms" the lake area
4:00 pm - Approximate...firefighter (they are mostly volunteers in E'dale) discovers bikes
After 4:00pm - Cyclist learns girls are missing (I think he sees a search group), reports his earlier sighting of the bikes, confirms time of phone call
I'm guessing, since LE was operating at that time as if the girls had gone in the lake, that the bikes were moved by the firefighter or other LE, and when Abben arrived they'd been propped against the fence. Just a guess, but based on what we've heard (cyclist says bikes were laying on trail, Abben says bikes propped "when he arrived.")


It seems, if we can count on that video being the girls, and the cyclists time being correct, then the window of opportunity for the perp is very small. Given that, and what I personally have witnessed of the area, here is a possible scenario:

Perp is in lake area, has backed a vehicle thru the brush into the woods near where the trail is secluded. His vehicle can be parked in those woods and not seen from the road or the trail (and I know I saw tire tracks leading in there, reported to police, photographed, etc). He's out of his vehicle, walking up and down that portion of trail. The girls enter the "trap," and he somehow - by luring or by force - gets them off the bikes and into his waiting vehicle, and pulls out onto Arbutus Ave, drives away, leaving the bikes on the trail. Perhaps the purse was dropped in the woods, around the fence, when he was putting the girls in the vehicle. Minutes later, the cyclist happens past the bikes. If perp's local, he can be at home or wherever before the grandmother notices the girls are missing. The river, and many remote locations, are mere minutes away. If he's not local, he could have gotten to Hwy 20 within 3-5 mins, and be traveling west, north, or south (Hwy 218 intersects Hwy 20 within a mile of him getting on) at 60mph for 2+ hours before police are notified. This would give him time to reach I-35, or even to loop back and go east, almost to the Mississippi River.

All speculation on my part, fwiw. Obviously I am biased having seen tracks in the woods. If those tracks were not made by LE (which I doubt, as they repeatedly gained access to the trail/lake w/o having to plow thru woods with a vehicle, and doing so would/could be dangerous, considering the girls may have been in that underbrush), they are incredibly suspicious. I have not heard any LE and/or press mention them, ONLY ME, so again, this is pure speculation. A perp could also simply have had his vehicle backed into the woods there partway, so as to shield only the rear of his vehicle in the woods, or he could have had his vehicle waiting as far as Arbutus, and somehow gotten the girls that far (altho that is close to a block - maybe 100 yds - from where the bikes were found).

This all depends on the girls making it from where/when the camera recorded them, to the lake, in that time. I will definitely double-check that distance tomorrow, but IMO, they'd have to be racing to make it, from Brovan, to Sipple, to Morrell and over to the trail, or just to Evans, and then south to the lake. I'd bet I could do it, tbh. Two young girls on kids bikes, tho? :dunno:

Just re-posting for anyone who hasn’t seen this:

In this interview and article Mr. C who lives on Lake Ave. (near Gilbert Drive) reports seeing Elizabeth and Lyric bicycle by his house between 12-3pm the day they disappeared.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20120717/NEWS/120717002/?odyssey=nav|head
 
Another cold case in the works, imo. Darn shame. I won`t point fingers at anyone but something needs to change. I thought for sure LE was steps ahead but it turns out the perp is. 7 days ahead! The girls could be anywhere. :(
 
Some quick thoughts from a local...these are my interpretations of all I have read, heard, and seen...I apologize I don't have links to everything, but maybe some can confirm/refute what I think I remember.

The timeline:
11:30am - Grandma OK's a bike ride
12:15pm - Grandma sees girls across the street, behind Lederman's
12:15pm - Video footage of girls leaving the area
12:20pm - Approximately...cyclist swerves to miss two kids' bikes laying on the trail
12:27pm - Cyclist phones daughter with his cell phone from nearby gas station (IMO, could have covered that distance in under 5 mins)
2:00 pm - Grandma, mother, brother begin driving and searching
2:45 pm - Witness at Meyers Lake parking area tells of seeing girls on trail nearby
2:45 pm - Girls reported missing to police - park is 2 blocks from police station
3:00 pm - LE "swarms" the lake area
4:00 pm - Approximate...firefighter (they are mostly volunteers in E'dale) discovers bikes
After 4:00pm - Cyclist learns girls are missing (I think he sees a search group), reports his earlier sighting of the bikes, confirms time of phone call
I'm guessing, since LE was operating at that time as if the girls had gone in the lake, that the bikes were moved by the firefighter or other LE, and when Abben arrived they'd been propped against the fence. Just a guess, but based on what we've heard (cyclist says bikes were laying on trail, Abben says bikes propped "when he arrived.")


It seems, if we can count on that video being the girls, and the cyclists time being correct, then the window of opportunity for the perp is very small. Given that, and what I personally have witnessed of the area, here is a possible scenario:

Perp is in lake area, has backed a vehicle thru the brush into the woods near where the trail is secluded. His vehicle can be parked in those woods and not seen from the road or the trail (and I know I saw tire tracks leading in there, reported to police, photographed, etc). He's out of his vehicle, walking up and down that portion of trail. The girls enter the "trap," and he somehow - by luring or by force - gets them off the bikes and into his waiting vehicle, and pulls out onto Arbutus Ave, drives away, leaving the bikes on the trail. Perhaps the purse was dropped in the woods, around the fence, when he was putting the girls in the vehicle. Minutes later, the cyclist happens past the bikes. If perp's local, he can be at home or wherever before the grandmother notices the girls are missing. The river, and many remote locations, are mere minutes away. If he's not local, he could have gotten to Hwy 20 within 3-5 mins, and be traveling west, north, or south (Hwy 218 intersects Hwy 20 within a mile of him getting on) at 60mph for 2+ hours before police are notified. This would give him time to reach I-35, or even to loop back and go east, almost to the Mississippi River.

All speculation on my part, fwiw. Obviously I am biased having seen tracks in the woods. If those tracks were not made by LE (which I doubt, as they repeatedly gained access to the trail/lake w/o having to plow thru woods with a vehicle, and doing so would/could be dangerous, considering the girls may have been in that underbrush), they are incredibly suspicious. I have not heard any LE and/or press mention them, ONLY ME, so again, this is pure speculation. A perp could also simply have had his vehicle backed into the woods there partway, so as to shield only the rear of his vehicle in the woods, or he could have had his vehicle waiting as far as Arbutus, and somehow gotten the girls that far (altho that is close to a block - maybe 100 yds - from where the bikes were found).

This all depends on the girls making it from where/when the camera recorded them, to the lake, in that time. I will definitely double-check that distance tomorrow, but IMO, they'd have to be racing to make it, from Brovan, to Sipple, to Morrell and over to the trail, or just to Evans, and then south to the lake. I'd bet I could do it, tbh. Two young girls on kids bikes, tho? :dunno:

I`m not sure I understand your comment that the opportunity was small. Looking at your timeline, it appears from 12:27 to 2:00 pm (when the family starts searching). That`s a heck of a long time for the perp to snatch 2 little girls and take off, imo.

If I misunderstood, I apologize and hope you can clarify.
 
The time referred to is from 12:15 (girls on video) to 12:20 when the cyclist sees the bikes. At least that's how I read it.

I wonder if the girls could have been there at the time the cyclist swerved to miss the bikes, but out of his view? I'm not familiar enough with the area to know if a perp could have been hidden and already had them under control or could they have been hiding.
 
I`m not sure I understand your comment that the opportunity was small. Looking at your timeline, it appears from 12:27 to 2:00 pm (when the family starts searching). That`s a heck of a long time for the perp to snatch 2 little girls and take off, imo.

If I misunderstood, I apologize and hope you can clarify.

NT - my understanding is the timeline is 5 minutes (12:15 when they were seen at Ledermans to 12:20 when the bikes were found).
 
The time referred to is from 12:15 (girls on video) to 12:20 when the cyclist sees the bikes. At least that's how I read it.

I wonder if the girls could have been there at the time the cyclist swerved to miss the bikes, but out of his view? I'm not familiar enough with the area to know if a perp could have been hidden and already had them under control or could they have been hiding.

Didn't see your post when I started mine!
 
NT - my understanding is the timeline is 5 minutes (12:15 when they were seen at Ledermans to 12:20 when the bikes were found).


And actually the time for them to vanish is less than five minutes because they are not where the bikes were found at the 12:15 mark. But we can (maybe) add a couple of minutes if the cyclist got to the store faster than he estimated. Still only leaves five minutes.

To get them in a vehicle and leave the area? Or in a vehicle hidden off the trail? Or hiding in the wooded area, then into a vehicle and leaving after the cyclist passed?

What a mystery. So sad that it is real and two little girls are gone.
 
Ok, so If TB is to be believed(no reason she shouldn't be), girls left to bike ride at 11:30. Surveillance footage puts them near grandma's at 12:15 because she is next to the Big n Tall store? Did they stay close to home for 45 minutes and THEN decide to head to the lake? If so, did something draw them to the lake?

What time were the girls to be back at grandma's? Does anyone remember? I know she had told them to be back by a certain time. I'm trying to find an article.

I can't shake the feeling that there was some level of familiarity here between the perp(s) and the girls. The window of opportunity was IMO, so tight that everything would have had to be flawless. That perp(s) would have had to rely on several things working in his favor. It's daylight. Two victims. No other people close enough to see/hear what was going on if the girls screamed.

Yes, I know kids are abducted in broad daylight. but within minutes of them leaving the parking lot, two girls rode approximately 1.5(I think), dropped their bikes, went to the warer's edge, and managed to disappear...all before the cyclist came on to the scene? I think that window is just too tight IMO. Somehow, I feel like those girls went willingly. I don't see any way they went with no fuss...a fuss loud enough to be heard by the cyclist in the area.
 
Ok, so If TB is to be believed(no reason she shouldn't be), girls left to bike ride at 11:30. Surveillance footage puts them near grandma's at 12:15 because she is next to the Big n Tall store? Did they stay close to home for 45 minutes and THEN decide to head to the lake? If so, did something draw them to the lake?

What time were the girls to be back at grandma's? Does anyone remember? I know she had told them to be back by a certain time. I'm trying to find an article.

I can't shake the feeling that there was some level of familiarity here between the perp(s) and the girls. The window of opportunity was IMO, so tight that everything would have had to be flawless. That perp(s) would have had to rely on several things working in his favor. It's daylight. Two victims. No other people close enough to see/hear what was going on if the girls screamed.

Yes, I know kids are abducted in broad daylight. but within minutes of them leaving the parking lot, two girls rode approximately 1.5(I think), dropped their bikes, went to the warer's edge, and managed to disappear...all before the cyclist came on to the scene? I think that window is just too tight IMO. Somehow, I feel like those girls went willingly. I don't see any way they went with no fuss...a fuss loud enough to be heard by the cyclist in the area.


So much that I agree with, but one question. Do we really know the girls went to the water's edge? I thought the aunt said the dogs tracked from the bikes to the wooded area? Was it the mother who said the dogs went to the water?
 
I don't know. Did we ever get confirmation that the girls went to the water's edge by LE? Or was it just family that said that?
 
I'm checking. I thought it was TB who said the dogs went to the water and then back to the wooded area
 
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