observing casey non reactions

...to say to JG, you love Caylee more than you love me....is so very telling...ICA needed to be numero uno but it was this precious child, Caylee Marie who was to be priority (as all children are) and ICA wanted the attention on her, not her child...

(Quoted from LLL, above)
That statement alone is so very telling, isn't it? You love Caylee more than you love me. It was the same with her parents.
When it bacame clear that CA was willing to throw ICA out of the house (allegedly in the fight on the 15th), it happened again. "You love Caylee more than you love me", whether the words were said or not, doesn't matter, it had been thrown in ICA's face multiple times. She needs to be the center of attention and Caylee was keeping her from that, with Tony and his college friends, and with CA. Again in one of the jail tapes, we see a glimpse of what makes ICA tick. What was the statement, something to the effect of everybody's worried about Caylee, What about me? She quickly catches herself and adds, and of course, I am too. But it's too late, the words are out of her mouth already.

Omachka said:

I don't think she is anything but an ordinary sociopath. She knows what she did, she hasn't forgotten or disassociated. She knew exactly what she did and she knew it was wrong when she did it or she never would have lied. She simply thinks she is smarter than the rest of the world and will get away with it. She doesn't care about anyone or anything other than herself. She has gotten by with lying her whole life and has no reason to believe she won't get away with it now.

I've been in the courtroom and watched the videos of the hearings as well. She does react sometimes... it's usually anger and it's whenever someone doesn't believe her lies. She fake cries now and then but that's just to try and get some sympathy or make herself look pitiful. She's gotten by with that as she grew up as well so she does that when her lies aren't immediately believed. Unfortunately, she's a terrible actress so it's not working to well for her outside of her family. Well, maybe once the tears were real... that day in when she was held without bond and she was crying for herself... because the judge didn't believe her story and turn her loose. She's cold, calculating and unfeeling. I've met other people like her before. It's like they have ice water in their veins and you feel like you are in the presence of evil.

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So agree with your post - and the only thing different between her reactions in and out of the courtroom is that - in the courtroom she cannot "go off" into one of her rages or temper tantrums. I'm going to add "yet" because I am still waiting for the day we can say "thar she blows!".

the one thing that sticks out to me, (IIRC)is when they were describing caylees probable last memories( looking in the eyes of the killer) didnt she whisper to baez "make him stop" ? she couldnt handle THAT...seems to be cold/indifferent on everything else. however that description=-she couldnt take that???? i cant wait to see her ( if she does) squirm like a worm on a hook...
IMO verrrrrrrrrrrrrry interesting...

When I spoke to cindy it was in hallway on a break and at times I spoke with both cindy and george waiting to get into courtroom. many times spoke with reporters . sometimes it was nothing important - like I asked him about his well ironed shirts and laughed as I asked does cindy iron them.
I know i have a lot of nerve-lol. he laughed and said no I do! - my mom taught me to iron well. He said he liked my purple sweater and said purple is his favorite and was caylees too. we spoke of outlet malls with the reporters as i was not always by myself- others around. just friendly chit chat.
Only with cindy was I alone for couple minutes. we spoke of casey seizures , I
brought up subject. She answered that vague. Not saying yes or no. I said to cindy- I do n ot know how you and george can go on day to day with such sorrow in your home and hearts. It was at time of River.Both cindy and george said time will tell about river . Its not as some write . I asked her if she reads blogs- she said she does not have time to read all the stuff printed no interest in it.I found that hard to believe cause I am one who would read it all . Do you google yourself I wanted to ask? I
I held back-lol.

I went up to both her and george in courtroom at times and said i respect you for having to be here and knowing it must be hard. I did not say I think casey is guilty or innocent as I never would . Its my private back and forth debate. the only thing i said is no secret she lies- but liars and bizare behavior does not always mean a killer. I said its not my opinion that will matter. Said take care of youreself to george and her . I ache for them as it must be horrible to watch as you know your grandbabys dead and your own is waiting to see if she will be next. omg- what hell. I truly believe cindy and george had nothing to do with caylees death. - STILL NON REACTIONS OF CASEY SPOOK ME!

I have dissociative amnesia from a trauma in childhood. I remember the event that triggered it very well, just not the painful period after. When my mom and sister try to discuss the period AFTER the event (some memories up to 2 years are gone), I have blank facies, no emotion because I really don't remember it. I have never dreamt about the missing memories to this day.

littlemisslegal said:

When I spoke to cindy it was in hallway on a break and at times I spoke with both cindy and george waiting to get into courtroom. many times spoke with reporters . sometimes it was nothing important - like I asked him about his well ironed shirts and laughed as I asked does cindy iron them.
I know i have a lot of nerve-lol. he laughed and said no I do! - my mom taught me to iron well. He said he liked my purple sweater and said purple is his favorite and was caylees too. we spoke of outlet malls with the reporters as i was not always by myself- others around. just friendly chit chat.
Only with cindy was I alone for couple minutes. we spoke of casey seizures , I
brought up subject. She answered that vague. Not saying yes or no. I said to cindy- I do n ot know how you and george can go on day to day with such sorrow in your home and hearts. It was at time of River.Both cindy and george said time will tell about river . Its not as some write . I asked her if she reads blogs- she said she does not have time to read all the stuff printed no interest in it.I found that hard to believe cause I am one who would read it all . Do you google yourself I wanted to ask? I
I held back-lol.

I went up to both her and george in courtroom at times and said i respect you for having to be here and knowing it must be hard. I did not say I think casey is guilty or innocent as I never would . Its my private back and forth debate. the only thing i said is no secret she lies- but liars and bizare behavior does not always mean a killer. I said its not my opinion that will matter. Said take care of youreself to george and her . I ache for them as it must be horrible to watch as you know your grandbabys dead and your own is waiting to see if she will be next. omg- what hell. I truly believe cindy and george had nothing to do with caylees death. - STILL NON REACTIONS OF CASEY SPOOK ME!

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I respectfully disagree. Their lies since and their attempts to obstruct justice have everything to do with her death. Honestly, I still think it is possible ga did in fact help dispose of the body. If not, how on earth do you drive a car that smells like decomp home and go to work not to the bathroom to puke your guts out while calling 911?
Every time they obstruct justice, IMHO they add blood their own hands.

JMHO- etc...

A_News_Junkie said:

I respectfully disagree. Their lies since and their attempts to obstruct justice have everything to do with her death. Honestly, I still think it is possible ga did in fact help dispose of the body. If not, how on earth do you drive a car that smells like decomp home and go to work not to the bathroom to puke your guts out while calling 911?
Every time they obstruct justice, IMHO they add blood their own hands.

JMHO- etc...

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I respect your thoughts/ just
a small indication of how jury will debate as each has own ideas. none right or wrong when it comes to final day of judge asking guilty or not. casey will react someway when the reply comes I assume.Perhaps they all dissociate. I would not want to have to know how he felt.
Tragic is all I could say this case is- too sad. Yes cindy and george behaved nutty at times too - yet i still can not blame them caseys non reactions could drive anyone nuts!

They may have took over and absorbed their own disgust at her- as they too perhaps were thinking- wtf is she thinking and feeling?

Has anyone ever watched the movie called "Killing in a Small Town" with Barbara Hershey? I watched it recently on Lifetime and couldn't help but notice the similarities between the killer and ICA. No emotion whatsoever (until she got on the stand of course and it was important then).

The film is based on a true story of Candy Montgomery -- who, after the trial said she wanted "to get all this behind me and be normal again".

Hmmm...who does that remind you of? 1) ICA who is planning a RV road trip, or 2) Billie Jean Dunn (who has also mentioned she just wants to move on, or It's a Good Day when They Don't Find Hailey". Interesting tidbit - this murder happened in a small texas town.

http://www.spislandbreeze.com/articles/texas-10314-town-montgomery.html

Anyway, when I look at the profiles of all three of these women: Candy Montgomery, ICA, and BJD, there's a common thread. Promiscuity, and lack of empathy.

Another link here: http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/classics/betty_gore/1_index.html

Fascinating stuff when you look at dissociative psychopaths!

MOO

Mel

charok said:

the one thing that sticks out to me, (IIRC)is when they were describing caylees probable last memories( looking in the eyes of the killer) didnt she whisper to baez "make him stop" ? she couldnt handle THAT...seems to be cold/indifferent on everything else. however that description=-she couldnt take that???? i cant wait to see her ( if she does) squirm like a worm on a hook...
IMO verrrrrrrrrrrrrry interesting...

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Casey said it to Andrea Lyon. IMO, it was an act, a statement Casey thought was appropriate for a distraught mother listening to JA describe Caylee's last moments.

jmo

In response to this thread, "Observing Casey's Non Reactions" ...

:cow: :cow: :cow:

I think Casey's "non reactions" are very "telling".

During the recent hearings, the discussion of decomposition, the body stain in the trunk, chloroform ... should have initiated "some kind of reaction" from ICA. But NO reaction from ICA -- NO Tears -- NO Emotion -- NO Grief ! This is her Daughter Caylee they are talking about and she just sits there like they are discussing her "checkbook" !

ICA is totally detached from the subject matter during the hearings -- writing notes ... trying to look "busy" ... trying to look like part of the "dream team" (or should I say the "nightmare team").

It made me sick to even listen to some of the evidence and the fact that this adorable little child was thrown into the woods like a piece of trash ! Absolutely OUTRAGEOUS that anyone could even think of doing this ! And Caylee's "mother" -- just sits there -- totally detached.

The only "emotion" I see from ICA is when JB is sitting next to her ... or CM ... or one of her "baby-sitters" ... and she tries to show some sort of "interest in HER case" -- but ICA's "interest" is NOT about Caylee ... ICA's "interest" is, of course, about HERSELF!

IF -- IF during the Trial, ICA starts to show "some sort of emotion" ... it will NOT be believable ... she has shown absolutely NO emotion and NO grief for Caylee over the past 3 years ...

It's a little too late to start to show it now....

logicalgirl said:

I think you may very well be right LittleMissLegal, but unfortunately for ICA, HHJP said "diminished mental capacity"is not allowed in the guilt phase of the trial. So the DT is going to have to come up with something to get around that limitation in Florida, and I'm not so sure they are going to be able to.

HHJP is watching this very closely...I have faith in him. A person can have a personality disorder and still be found to be guilty and sentenced to Death or LWOP.

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It should be interesting to watch her reaction to their talking about this. Unless Baez has said, we have to do this to save you, we know you are innocent.

charok said:

the one thing that sticks out to me, (IIRC)is when they were describing caylees probable last memories( looking in the eyes of the killer) didnt she whisper to baez "make him stop" ? she couldnt handle THAT...seems to be cold/indifferent on everything else. however that description=-she couldnt take that???? i cant wait to see her ( if she does) squirm like a worm on a hook...
IMO verrrrrrrrrrrrrry interesting...

Click to expand...

BBM- Does anyone know where we can find the video of that? It was back in....what, October?

Capri said:

BBM- Does anyone know where we can find the video of that? It was back in....what, October?

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[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_zbUtrqKI8[/ame]

mgardner said:

Has anyone ever watched the movie called "Killing in a Small Town" with Barbara Hershey? I watched it recently on Lifetime and couldn't help but notice the similarities between the killer and ICA. No emotion whatsoever (until she got on the stand of course and it was important then).

The film is based on a true story of Candy Montgomery -- who, after the trial said she wanted "to get all this behind me and be normal again".

Hmmm...who does that remind you of? 1) ICA who is planning a RV road trip, or 2) Billie Jean Dunn (who has also mentioned she just wants to move on, or It's a Good Day when They Don't Find Hailey". Interesting tidbit - this murder happened in a small texas town.

http://www.spislandbreeze.com/articles/texas-10314-town-montgomery.html

Anyway, when I look at the profiles of all three of these women: Candy Montgomery, ICA, and BJD, there's a common thread. Promiscuity, and lack of empathy.

Another link here: http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/classics/betty_gore/1_index.html

Fascinating stuff when you look at dissociative psychopaths!

MOO

Mel

Click to expand...

Thanks Mgardner - enjoyed both articles - and see why you drew the correlation between ICA and Candy Montgomery...flat lined.

That is when she asked Andrea to make the pain of hearing the truth stop. She said “Tell him to him stop.” Andrea of course replied, “I can’t.” So for perhaps the very first time in her life, Casey was forced to hear the truth about herself. ==== this was from body language expert lillian

this was a reaction request andrea could not help her with

I also hope that ICA's lack of reactions will help the jury to see who she is. I've been in court for a number of trials, hearings and inquests (because of my work) involving the deaths of children. These are not children I've ever met, but I still often found myself in tears or struggling to compose myself as the tragic stories unfold. I wasn't the only one, either. If this was a child I had known, let alone my own daughter, I would be weeping inconsolably.

While her non-reaction is not evidence of guilt, it certainly demonstrates that she is quite capable of callously killing her child, since she clearly has no emotional attachment to Caylee. Add that to the other evidence, and the case looks pretty solid to me.

Tink

Oh... Casey's "Make him Stop" performance? How long it has been! Funny how she can go from complete wreck to being completely over it in a few seconds. Casey... like her mother and father... hates to be confronted with the truth. Casey was not crying out of sorrow or out of remorse... she was crying out of anger. Angry that Jeff Ashton was calling her out on the truth of what happened... it may not have been exactly what happened... but it was close enough to make Casey react. Casey has been so used to B/S'ing her way through life that it is like a shock to her system that anyone DARE call her out.

If you look at her non-reactions about the decomposition, the post mortem hair banding, the stain, the plant growth... in Casey's mind... none of that has anything to do with her. Casey only reacts when it has something to do with her... "My whole life has been taken from me" Casey Anthony has never shown any kind of emotion, other than contempt and jealousy, when it has had anything to do with Caylee.

This is a woman who could go on (move on) and plan a future full of RV trips and little Irish babies. She says that she knows Caylee is in a better place because she will never have to have her heart broken... not even thinking that her last few moments of life... her heart was breaking as she couldn't understand why her mommy could hate her so much to murder her! She died with her heart breaking!

Trying to understand Casey is impossible... she is evil! We can not understand evil because we are not evil! Evil is everywhere and comes in all shapes and sizes... some are so blinded by what is good... that they can not see evil and they become their victims. Pay close attention my fellow Websluthers... we are witnessing evil.

littlemisslegal said:

You asked me if it is hard to watch her in person. I observe everyone actually. I find it hard to watch Cindy when she trembles and puts her head down and I can see her visibly shaking. She is real- not faking. I saw her put her arm around a young girl sitting next to her in court last week as the girl was emotional. Not sure if girl was staff of Jose or who she was but i did notice cindy noticed her tears. I have said many times that its no secret casey lies and has bizare behavior. Crazy reactions does not make a jury say guilty she hopes i bet. I even said it to Cindy once in court recess. -casey is a liar we all know that. She has bizare behavior- yes i said it to cindy.also said guilt does not depend on her reactions or innocent. I find it hard to accept this mom is not sobbing for the loss of her child. Nothing seems to make her cringe. Some believe she is guilty , not many think innocent. I see videos of a loving mom laughing with her child . I see videos of cindy and george loving caylee. all before this. I look at casey in court and think I wish I could know all her secrets and how she can not want to collapse in court regardless of guilt or someone else killing her baby. They better have ambulances in court when trial starts cause some may faint when they hear details--will she still not react? I do believe a liar, crazy person can not cover up all emotions- I do believe a sane one can not either. I do wonder if she ever told anyone the real truth of how she feels. I could sit on that jury and want to know every detail but i would faint perhaps cause I would ask why is she able to not react? I am not talking about guilt or not- her babys dead and she can be so uninvolved emotions. it was hard to watch george real emotions . hes real . I am real too- so yes ,its hard to not ask why.

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I meant is it hard on YOU to be in Court...but I think I understand. You explained it perfectly. Thanks!

LolaMoon08 said:

Oh... Casey's "Make him Stop" performance? How long it has been! Funny how she can go from complete wreck to being completely over it in a few seconds. Casey... like her mother and father... hates to be confronted with the truth. Casey was not crying out of sorrow or out of remorse... she was crying out of anger. Angry that Jeff Ashton was calling her out on the truth of what happened... it may not have been exactly what happened... but it was close enough to make Casey react. Casey has been so used to B/S'ing her way through life that it is like a shock to her system that anyone DARE call her out.

If you look at her non-reactions about the decomposition, the post mortem hair banding, the stain, the plant growth... in Casey's mind... none of that has anything to do with her. Casey only reacts when it has something to do with her... "My whole life has been taken from me" Casey Anthony has never shown any kind of emotion, other than contempt and jealousy, when it has had anything to do with Caylee.

This is a woman who could go on (move on) and plan a future full of RV trips and little Irish babies. She says that she knows Caylee is in a better place because she will never have to have her heart broken... not even thinking that her last few moments of life... her heart was breaking as she couldn't understand why her mommy could hate her so much to murder her! She died with her heart breaking!

Trying to understand Casey is impossible... she is evil! We can not understand evil because we are not evil! Evil is everywhere and comes in all shapes and sizes... some are so blinded by what is good... that they can not see evil and they become their victims. Pay close attention my fellow Websluthers... we are witnessing evil.

Click to expand...

This is going to be a hard statement to read so I apologize to my fellow WS'ers - but in a way yes, I do understand ICA.

If ICA is a sociopath, then she equates people with the same degree of non-attachment as things.

And I always feel so much better when I have tidied things up - you know - a real cleanout. Things I don't need - I give them away, I give them to a charity, or I just throw them away into the garbage and come away feeling so much "fresher" somehow. No more clutter y'know, getting in my way - so I can really get on with enjoying my life.

Why then would you expect me to care about something I didn't need and threw away?

LolaMoon08 said:

Oh... Casey's "Make him Stop" performance? How long it has been! Funny how she can go from complete wreck to being completely over it in a few seconds. Casey... like her mother and father... hates to be confronted with the truth. Casey was not crying out of sorrow or out of remorse... she was crying out of anger. Angry that Jeff Ashton was calling her out on the truth of what happened... it may not have been exactly what happened... but it was close enough to make Casey react. Casey has been so used to B/S'ing her way through life that it is like a shock to her system that anyone DARE call her out.

If you look at her non-reactions about the decomposition, the post mortem hair banding, the stain, the plant growth... in Casey's mind... none of that has anything to do with her. Casey only reacts when it has something to do with her... "My whole life has been taken from me" Casey Anthony has never shown any kind of emotion, other than contempt and jealousy, when it has had anything to do with Caylee.

This is a woman who could go on (move on) and plan a future full of RV trips and little Irish babies. She says that she knows Caylee is in a better place because she will never have to have her heart broken... not even thinking that her last few moments of life... her heart was breaking as she couldn't understand why her mommy could hate her so much to murder her! She died with her heart breaking!

Trying to understand Casey is impossible... she is evil! We can not understand evil because we are not evil! Evil is everywhere and comes in all shapes and sizes... some are so blinded by what is good... that they can not see evil and they become their victims. Pay close attention my fellow Websluthers... we are witnessing evil.

Click to expand...

BBM

ITA with every word, LolaMoon.

Re bold: I was just about to post the exact same thing!

I envision JA wanting to shoot back, "You can't handle the truth!!!" (obviously ala Tom Cruise to Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men)

Casey is up against the State of Florida, not George and Cindy this time. Anyone forcing her to HEAR the truth is totally foreign to her. In the past if GA tried to hold her feet to the fire, all she had to do was tell CA to "Make him stop!". CA would have and GA would've complied. She's in a whole new arena now. I'm betting there are going to be several times when she won't do much better controlling her anger during the trial either.