Hurricane Rita thread

deandaniellws said:

About 100 or so miles. We will catch part of the eye if she stays on her current predicted path.

Click to expand...

Tropical winds<-----205m----->EYE<-----205m----->Tropical Winds
----Hurricane Winds<----60m---EYE<-----60m------>Hurricane Winds

from 60 miles away from the eye to the EYE, the winds range
from 73mph at 60m, to 140mph at the Eye Wall

from 205 miles away the Eye until 60 miles away from the Eye, the winds range
from 39MPH at 205miles away from the eye, to 73 mph at 60m away from the Eye

Buzzm1 said:

Tropical winds<-----205m----->EYE<-----205m----->Tropical Winds
----Hurricane Winds<----60m---EYE<-----60m------>Hurricane Winds

from 60 miles away from the eye to the EYE, the winds range
from 73mph at 60m, to 140mph at the Eye Wall

from 205 miles away the Eye until 60 miles away from the Eye, the winds range
from 39MPH at 205miles away from the eye, to 73 mph at 60m away from the Eye

Click to expand...

Baytown will catch the good side of the eye.

deandaniellws said:

Baytown will catch the good side of the eye.

Click to expand...

If it turns just a little more to the North, Baytown would be in good shape.

Is this map current? http://www.ih2000.net/ira/bmt-wth.htm

Buzzm1 said:

If it turns just a little more to the North, Baytown would be in good shape.

Click to expand...

Yes it would. Yall look at the map and tell me if it is the most current.

deandaniellws said:

Yes it would. Yall look at the map and tell me if it is the most current.

Click to expand...

Here's the same map--that site takes too long to load.

Hurricane Rita Projected Path
http://tinyurl.com/dpgwx

They will have an updated map available in about 90 minutes. Hope for the best.

Rita's Rains Start falling On New Orleans

HOUSTON - Hurricane Rita closed in on the Texas Gulf Coast and the heart of the U.S. oil-refining industry with howling 140 mph winds Thursday, but a sharper-than-expected turn to the right set it on a course that could spare Houston and nearby Galveston a direct hit. The storm's march toward land sent hundreds of thousands of people fleeing the nation's fourth-largest city in a frustratingly slow, bumper-to-bumper exodus. "This is the worst planning I've ever seen," said Judie Anderson, who covered just 45 miles in 12 hours after setting out from her home in the Houston suburb of LaPorte. "They say we've learned a lot from Hurricane Katrina. Well, you couldn't prove it by me."

In all, nearly 2 million people along the Texas and Louisiana coasts were urged to get out of the way of Rita, a 400-mile-wide storm that weakened Thursday from a top-of-the-scale Category 5 hurricane to a Category 4 as it swirled across the Gulf of Mexico. The storm's course change could send it away from Houston and Galveston and instead draw the hurricane toward Port Arthur, Texas, or Lake Charles, La., at least 60 miles up the coast, by late Friday or early Saturday. But it was still an extremely dangerous storm — and one aimed at a section of coastline with the nation's biggest concentration of oil refineries. Environmentalists warned of the possibility of a toxic spill from the 87 chemical plants and petroleum installations that represent more than one-fourth of U.S. refining capacity.

http://tinyurl.com/cv7kg

Hi Buzz,

Only one other hurricane out in the Atlantic that I see from your great maps, which is Phillippe. I wonder why it has all those hurricane signs inside of the circle, all in a line, and Buzz, does it look to you that this one will hit that area around Virginia? Two more months of these horrific storms being created leaves one wondering what else is in store. I heard Max Mayfield say that New England and New York City are both potential sites for great devestation from hurricanes, but have never seen one go up that far N.

The new path projection that comes out at 1am, how long will it take for that to be put out on the web?


Scandi

scandi said:

Hi Buzz,

Only one other hurricane out in the Atlantic that I see from your great maps, which is Phillippe. I wonder why it has all those hurricane signs inside of the circle, all in a line, and Buzz, does it look to you that this one will hit that area around Virginia? Two more months of these horrific storms being created leaves one wondering what else is in store. I heard Max Mayfield say that New England and New York City are both potential sites for great devestation from hurricanes, but have never seen one go up that far N.

The new path projection that comes out at 1am, how long will it take for that to be put out on the web?


Scandi

Click to expand...

Hi scandi, the next report comes out at 2:00AM our time. 4:00 AM CDT. I haven't looked at Phillipe; they said it didn't present any danger. I'll go and take a look at it now.

Here you go scandi:

Phillipe
http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_at2+shtml/030745.shtml?5day?large

Here's the discussion from earlier:

HURRICANE RITA DISCUSSION NUMBER 22
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
11 PM EDT THU SEP 22 2005

FLIGHT LEVEL WIND DATA AND RADAR OBSERVATIONS FROM THE AIR FORCE
HURRICANE HUNTER AIRCRAFT INDICATE THAT THE CONCENTRIC EYEWALL
CYCLE MIGHT BE NEARING COMPLETION. THERE IS NOW ONLY A SINGLE
FLIGHT LEVEL WIND MAXIMUM AT A RADIUS OF ABOUT 20 N MI...ASSOCIATED
WITH THE OUTER EYEWALL THAT THE AIRCRAFT RADAR INDICATE IS SLOWLY
CONTRACTING... WHILE THE INNER EYEWALL CONTINUES TO DETERIORATE.
RECENT GOES INFRARED IMAGERY ALSO INDICATES THAT A COMPLETE RING OF
VERY COLD CONVECTIVE TOPS...COLDER THAN -70C... NOW SURROUNDS THE
EYE. THE CENTRAL PRESSURE HAS ONLY RISEN SLIGHTLY TO 917 MB AS
MEASURED BY THE MOST RECENT DROPSONDE. RECENT FLIGHT LEVEL AND
DROPSONDE WIND DATA DO NOT SUPPORT AN INTENSITY GREATER THAN ABOUT
110 KT...BUT GIVEN THE VERY LOW PRESSURE...THE INITIAL INTENSITY IS
ADJUSTED ONLY SLIGHTLY DOWNWARD TO 120 KT. RITA IS ABOUT TO PASS
OVER ANOTHER EDDY OF HIGH OCEAN HEAT CONTENT. COMBINING THIS WITH
THE POSSIBLE CONTRACTION OF THE OUTER EYEWALL DURING THE NEXT
SEVERAL HOURS...SOME RESTRENGTHENING IS FORECAST IN THE SHORT TERM.
GRADUAL WEAKENING IS POSSIBLE LATER ON FRIDAY BEFORE LANDFALL DUE
TO LESSER OCEAN HEAT CONTENT CLOSER TO THE COAST...AND TO THE
POSSIBILITY OF SOME INCREASE IN THE WIND SHEAR. THE BOTTOM LINE IS
THAT THE INTENSITY WILL LIKELY FLUCTUATE DURING THE NEXT 36
HOURS...AND RITA IS EXPECTED TO MAKE LANDFALL AS A MAJOR
HURRICANE...AT LEAST CATEGORY THREE.

ALTHOUGH RITA HAS WOBBLED WESTWARD DURING THE PAST COUPLE OF
HOURS...THE OVERALL MOTION DURING THE PAST SEVERAL HOURS HAS
REMAINED WEST-NORTHWESTWARD...ABOUT 300/9. THERE ARE NO CHANGES TO
THE OFFICIAL TRACK FORECAST...SINCE THE VARIOUS DYNAMICAL MODELS
STRADDLE THE PREVIOUS ADVISORY TRACK. RITA IS EXPECTED TO
GRADUALLY TURN NORTHWESTWARD AND EVENTUALLY NORTHWARD AS THE HIGH
TO ITS NORTH SLIDES EASTWARD. RITA IS FORECAST TO THEN ESSENTIALLY
STALL IN ABOUT THREE DAYS IN THE AREA OF NORTHEASTERN TEXAS WHERE
STEERING CURRENTS ARE FORECAST TO BECOME VERY WEAK. THIS SCENARIO
POSES A GREAT RISK OF VERY HEAVY RAINFALL WELL INLAND AND FOR MANY
DAYS AFTER LANDFALL.

FORECASTER KNABB

FORECAST POSITIONS AND MAX WINDS

INITIAL 23/0300Z 26.2N 90.3W 120 KT
12HR VT 23/1200Z 27.0N 91.5W 125 KT
24HR VT 24/0000Z 28.4N 93.0W 120 KT
36HR VT 24/1200Z 29.8N 94.2W 115 KT...INLAND
48HR VT 25/0000Z 31.1N 94.7W 65 KT...INLAND
72HR VT 26/0000Z 33.0N 95.0W 35 KT...INLAND
96HR VT 27/0000Z 33.0N 95.0W 25 KT...INLAND
120HR VT 28/0000Z 33.0N 95.0W 25 KT...INLAND

Thanks Buzz,

Tomorrow will be quite a day! I guess all those refineries are up the channel by Houston, right. What a deal, but I think I heard that where she will probably come in is a spot with the least potential for loss of human life and destruction. I hope so.

Will be watching for the next report to come out. They say it might take a little jog to the right at the last minute. Are you headed to bed? LOL Hard to sleep with this going on, so think I'll turn on the weather channel and see if I can drift off.

Dean, I've been thinking of you a lot tonight. Will keep you in my thoughts and prayers to be safe where ever you go - you're leaving, right?

Scandi

HURRICANE RITA ADVISORY NUMBER 23
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
4 AM CDT FRI SEP 23 2005

...EXTREMELY DANGEROUS CATEGORY FOUR RITA MOVING NORTHWESTWARD INTO
THE NORTHWESTERN GULF OF MEXICO...

A HURRICANE WARNING IS IN EFFECT FROM PORT O'CONNOR TEXAS TO MORGAN
CITY LOUISIANA. A HURRICANE WARNING MEANS THAT HURRICANE CONDITIONS
ARE EXPECTED WITHIN THE WARNING AREA WITHIN THE NEXT 24 HOURS.
PREPARATIONS TO PROTECT LIFE AND PROPERTY SHOULD BE RUSHED TO
COMPLETION.

A TROPICAL STORM WARNING IS IN EFFECT FOR THE SOUTHEASTERN COAST OF
LOUISIANA EAST OF MORGAN CITY TO THE MOUTH OF THE PEARL RIVER
INCLUDING METROPOLITAN NEW ORLEANS AND LAKE PONTCHARTRAIN....AND
FROM SOUTH OF PORT O'CONNOR TO PORT MANSFIELD TEXAS. A TROPICAL
STORM WARNING MEANS THAT TROPICAL STORM CONDITIONS ARE EXPECTED
WITHIN THE WARNING AREA WITHIN THE NEXT 24 HOURS. SOME PORTIONS OF
THE TROPICAL STORM WARNING IN TEXAS COULD BE DISCONTINUED LATER
TODAY.

AT 4 AM CDT...0900Z...THE TROPICAL STORM WATCH IS DISCONTINUED FOR
THE TEXAS COAST SOUTH OF PORT MANSFIELD AND FOR NORTHEASTERN
MEXICO.

FOR STORM INFORMATION SPECIFIC TO YOUR AREA...INCLUDING POSSIBLE
INLAND WATCHES AND WARNINGS...PLEASE MONITOR PRODUCTS ISSUED
BY YOUR LOCAL WEATHER OFFICE.

AT 4 AM CDT...0900Z...THE CENTER OF HURRICANE RITA WAS LOCATED NEAR
LATITUDE 26.8 NORTH...LONGITUDE 91.0 WEST OR ABOUT 290 MILES
SOUTHEAST OF GALVESTON TEXAS AND ABOUT 250 MILES SOUTHEAST OF
CAMERON LOUISIANA.

RITA IS MOVING TOWARD THE NORTHWEST NEAR 9 MPH...AND THIS GENERAL
MOTION IS EXPECTED TO CONTINUE FOR THE NEXT 24 HOURS. ON THIS
TRACK...THE CORE OF RITA WILL BE APPROACHING THE SOUTHWEST
LOUISIANA AND UPPER TEXAS COASTS LATE TODAY OR TONIGHT.

MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS ARE NEAR 140 MPH...WITH HIGHER GUSTS. RITA
IS AN EXTREMELY DANGEROUS CATEGORY FOUR HURRICANE ON THE
SAFFIR-SIMPSON SCALE. SOME FLUCTUATIONS IN STRENGTH ARE EXPECTED
DURING THE NEXT 24 HOURS.

HURRICANE FORCE WINDS EXTEND OUTWARD UP TO 85 MILES FROM THE
CENTER...AND TROPICAL STORM FORCE WINDS EXTEND OUTWARD UP
TO 205 MILES. AN AUTOMATED STATION OPERATED BY LOUISIANA STATE
UNIVERSITY NEAR THE SOUTHEAST LOUISIANA COAST RECENTLY REPORTED
SUSTAINED WINDS OF 55 MPH WITH A GUST OF 65 MPH AT AN ELEVATION OF
130 FT.

THE MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE JUST REPORTED BY AN AIR FORCE RESERVE
HURRICANE HUNTER AIRCRAFT IS 927 MB...27.37 INCHES.

COASTAL STORM SURGE FLOODING OF 15 TO 20 FEET ABOVE NORMAL TIDE
LEVELS...ALONG WITH LARGE AND DANGEROUS BATTERING WAVES...CAN BE
EXPECTED NEAR AND TO THE EAST OF WHERE THE CENTER MAKES LANDFALL.
TIDES ARE CURRENTLY RUNNING ABOUT 2 FEET ABOVE NORMAL ALONG THE
LOUISIANA...MISSISSIPPI AND ALABAMA COASTS IN THE AREAS AFFECTED BY
KATRINA. TIDES IN THOSE AREAS WILL INCREASE TO 3 TO 5 FEET AND BE
ACCOMPANIED BY LARGE WAVES...AND RESIDENTS THERE COULD EXPERIENCE
COASTAL FLOODING. LARGE SWELLS GENERATED BY RITA WILL LIKELY AFFECT
MOST PORTIONS OF THE GULF COAST.

RITA IS EXPECTED TO PRODUCE RAINFALL ACCUMULATIONS OF 8 TO 12
INCHES...WITH ISOLATED MAXIMUM AMOUNTS OF 15 INCHES OVER
SOUTHEASTERN TEXAS AND SOUTHWESTERN LOUISIANA AS IT MOVES INLAND.
SINCE RITA IS FORECAST TO SLOW DOWN SIGNIFICANTLY AFTER MAKING
LANDFALL...TOTAL ACCUMULATIONS IN EXCESS OF 25 INCHES ARE POSSIBLE
OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL DAYS ACROSS EASTERN TEXAS AND WESTERN
LOUISIANA. IN ADDITION...RAINFALL AMOUNTS OF 3 TO 5 INCHES ARE
POSSIBLE OVER SOUTHEASTERN LOUISIANA INCLUDING METROPOLITAN NEW
ORLEANS.

ISOLATED TORNADOES ARE POSSIBLE TODAY OVER PORTIONS OF SOUTHEASTERN
TEXAS AND SOUTHERN LOUISIANA.

REPEATING THE 4 AM CDT POSITION...26.8 N... 91.0 W. MOVEMENT
TOWARD...NORTHWEST NEAR 10 MPH. MAXIMUM SUSTAINED
WINDS...140 MPH. MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE... 927 MB.[/b[

AN INTERMEDIATE ADVISORY WILL BE ISSUED BY THE NATIONAL
HURRICANE CENTER AT 7 AM CDT FOLLOWED BY THE NEXT
COMPLETE ADVISORY AT 10 AM CDT.

FORECASTER BEVEN

Hurricane Rita Projected Path
http://tinyurl.com/dpgwx

Hurricane Rita Projected 5 Day Cone
http://tinyurl.com/7mrr3

Hurricane Rita Strike Probabilities (Scroll Down)
http://tinyurl.com/dsfp5

Hurricane Rita Satellite Imagery (Patience Required)
http://tinyurl.com/6fmsy

Hurricane Rita Tropical Winds Forecast (in % of highest wind speed)
http://tinyurl.com/b9vap

Rita Hurricane Winds Probability
http://tinyurl.com/blayb

Rita Tropical Winds Probability
http://tinyurl.com/b2k6f

Hurricane Rita Position
http://tinyurl.com/7ju9l



The above links will update automatically, so if someone wants to include them in their future posts, they will be valid for that time.

Category Five Hurricane:
Winds greater than 155 mph (135 kt or 249 km/hr). Storm surge generally greater than 18 ft above normal. Complete roof failure on many residences and industrial buildings. Some complete building failures with small utility buildings blown over or away. All shrubs, trees, and signs blown down. Complete destruction of mobile homes. Severe and extensive window and door damage. Low-lying escape routes are cut by rising water 3-5 hours before arrival of the center of the hurricane. Major damage to lower floors of all structures located less than 15 ft above sea level and within 500 yards of the shoreline. Massive evacuation of residential areas on low ground within 5-10 miles (8-16 km) of the shoreline may be required. Only 3 Category Five Hurricanes have made landfall in the United States since records began: The Labor Day Hurricane of 1935, Hurricane Camille (1969), and Hurricane Andrew in August, 1992. The 1935 Labor Day Hurricane struck the Florida Keys with a minimum pressure of 892 mb--the lowest pressure ever observed in the United States. Hurricane Camille struck the Mississippi Gulf Coast causing a 25-foot storm surge, which inundated Pass Christian. Hurricane Andrew of 1992 made landfall over southern Miami-Dade County, Florida causing 26.5 billion dollars in losses--the costliest hurricane on record. In addition, Hurricane Gilbert of 1988 was a Category Five hurricane at peak intensity and is the strongest Atlantic tropical cyclone on record with a minimum pressure of 888 mb.

Size Comparison

KATRINA
Wind Speed at Landfall, 140mph-----Maiximum Wind Speed, 175mph
HURRICANE FORCE WINDS EXTEND 105 MILES FROM THE CENTER...
TROPICAL STORM FORCE WINDS EXTEND OUTWARD UP TO 230 MILES.
MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE...923 MB. (at landfall) 902 MB (at its lowest)

RITA
Wind Speed Presently, 140mph-----Maiximum Wind Speed, 175mph
HURRICANE FORCE WINDS EXTEND 85 MILES FROM THE CENTER
TROPICAL STORM FORCE WINDS EXTEND OUTWARD UP TO 205 MILES.
MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE...927 MB (presently), 897 MB (at its lowest)
This is the 3rd lowest pressure on record-- Gilbert 888 MB, 1935 LABOR DAY 892 MB

The record low central pressure ever, for a hurricane IN the U.S., is 892 MB (the 1935 Labor Day Hurricane).

Looks like its going to be rough landing. I sure am glad people listened to their local officials and left.

HURRICANE RITA DISCUSSION NUMBER 23
NWS TPC/NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL
5 AM EDT FRI SEP 23 2005

RITA IS COMPLETING ITS EYEWALL REPLACEMENT CYCLE THIS MORNING...AS
THE LAST REPORT FROM AN AIR FORCE RESERVE HURRICANE HUNTER AIRCRAFT
SHOWED THAT THE INNER 15 N MI WIDE EYE HAD DISSIPATED AND A SINGLE
33 N MI WIDE EYE EXISTED. MAXIMUM FLIGHT-LEVEL WINDS AT 700 MB IN
THE NORTHEASTERN QUADRANT ARE 125-130 KT...WHICH HELPS SUPPORT AN
INITIAL INTENSITY OF 120 KT. THE AIRCRAFT DATA SHOWED THAT ANOTHER
WIND MAXIMA HAS FORMED ABOUT 60 N MI FROM THE CENTER...WHICH MIGHT
BE THE START OF ANOTHER OUTER EYEWALL. THE LATEST CENTRAL PRESSURE
REPORTED BY THE AIRCRAFT IS 927 MB.

RITA IS MOVING BETWEEN 300-305 DEGREES AT 8-9 KT. RAWINSONDE DATA
AT 00Z INDICATES THAT THE MID-LEVEL RIDGE IS STILL PRESENT OVER
TEXAS. THIS FEATURE SHOULD MOVE EASTWARD DURING THE NEXT 24-48
HR...ALLOWING THE CURRENT NORTHWESTWARD MOTION TO BECOME MORE
NORTHERLY. TRACK GUIDANCE IS NOW CLUSTERED ABOUT A LANDFALL ON THE
UPPER TEXAS COAST IN ROUGHLY 30 HR...WITH THE MODEL TRACK BEING
SPREAD BETWEEN SAN LUIS PASS AND SABINE PASS. THE FORECAST TRACK
UP TO LANDFALL IS ESSENTIALLY AN UPDATE OF THE PREVIOUS PACKAGE.
AFTER LANDFALL...THE GUIDANCE BECOME VERY DIVERGENT AS HIGH
PRESSURE BUILD TO THE WEST AND POSSIBLY NORTH OF RITA. GIVEN THE
SPREAD...THE FORECAST TRACK WILL CALL FOR LITTLE MOTION AFTER 72 HR
JUST AS THE PREVIOUS FORECAST DID. THIS STALLING WILL POSE A
SERIOUS RISK OF VERY HEAVY RAINFALL WELL INLAND.

THE INTENSITY FORECAST IS STILL PROBLEMATIC. SINCE RITA HAS
COMPLETED THE EYEWALL REPLACEMENT CYCLE AND IS OVER THE WARM EDDY
OF THE LOOP CURRENT...THERE IS A CHANCE IT COULD STRENGTHEN DURING
THE NEXT 12 HR. AFTER THAT...IT SHOULD MOVED NORTH OF THE EDDY...
POSSIBLY START ANOTHER EYEWALL CYCLE...AND POSSIBLY EXPERIENCE
INCREASING SOUTHERLY SHEAR. THE INTENSITY FORECAST THUS CALLS FOR
A SLIGHT INCREASE IN STRENGTH IN 12 HR...FOLLWED BY SLIGHT
WEAKENING. AN ALTERNATIVE SCENARIO IS THAT RITA DOES NOT
STRENGTHEN...AND GRADUALLY WEAKENS DUE TO SHEAR UNTIL LANDFALL.
THIS COULD HAPPEN IF THE SHEAR REACHES THE 25 KT VALUES FORECAST BY
THE GFS AND SHIPS MODELS.

FORECASTER BEVEN

We are definitely going to be faced with helping the survivors of this monster storm. We know we are going to have to continue to make donations to Red Cross and the Salvation Army to help with the relief. There is almost alway a local effort to collect clothes, food, and personal hygiene goods to take by truck to the affected areas.
What I was wondering if rather than haphazard donations if a specific list of a survival kit could be determined and every person donating prepare a box with those survival items in the that box which could be distributed to those in need. The distribution would be easier and everything would be there in one box. Or if the large grocery store chains prepared the boxed items and people donating could purchase that box for distribution for a specified fee.
Any ideas?

I forget which gulf city it was now, but the mayor told anyone that was planning to *ride it out* to "take a permanent marking pen and write your name and social security number on your forearm or stomach to make it easier for us to identify your body". That would get MY attention!

I think Gov. Blanco of Louisiana saw him, too, because she told her constituents in south eastern LA the very same thing a couple of hours later.

dani

Beyond Belief said:

We are definitely going to be faced with helping the survivors of this monster storm. We know we are going to have to continue to make donations to Red Cross and the Salvation Army to help with the relief. There is almost alway a local effort to collect clothes, food, and personal hygiene goods to take by truck to the affected areas.
What I was wondering if rather than haphazard donations if a specific list of a survival kit could be determined and every person donating prepare a box with those survival items in the that box which could be distributed to those in need. The distribution would be easier and everything would be there in one box. Or if the large grocery store chains prepared the boxed items and people donating could purchase that box for distribution for a specified fee.
Any ideas?

Click to expand...

Sound like a good idea - now, to put the plan into action --- what items would you think would be needed in such a "kit". Probably have to be a pretty big "KIT".

Maybe they should start making them up ahead of time - for the next "big one" - not to be a pessimist!

canned meat,
vegetables,
canned milk,
canned fruit,
2 rolls toilet paper
plastic forks
paper plates
can opener

Factory type set up with a conveyor belt could whip these up quickly.
Rather than transporting clothing to these areas, Good Will industries should take care of that.

Okay, what do military personnel take when they go into the field???? I am sure they have some type of "kit" they take....

Here ya go BB, they already have them made up for ya!!!!

http://www.geoduck.com/epicenter/or...ergency_supply_packs.html&cart_id=%%cart_id%%

Now get these things distributed.....

(Ya know, not to be an A-hole, and not to capitalize on this whole thing, but think how much money you could make in some of those car lines waiting to go nowhere in Texas right now - you could set up hot dog stands, drink stands, sell newspapers, sell these kits, whatever).