FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

vlpate · Mar 24, 2012

mikeysmommom said:
News reporters use to report facts...........What the H3ll has happened to the media?They put out mostly incorrect "facts" It adds to the confusion IMO.

princesspjs · Mar 24, 2012

vlpate said:
BEM: Trayvon was 6' and Zimmerman is 5'9".

Trayvon was 140 pounds soaking wet - spread throughout a 6 foot tall body and he would be a very thin/scrawny build...Zimmerman is 250+ and is 3 inches shorter.

Wise Old Owl · Mar 24, 2012

Its called

Neighborhood WATCH

for a reason. You do just that WATCH. GZ knew the cops were en route and the dispatcher had already told him that "we don't need you to do that (follow him)". Ok, so Trayvon got out of GZ sight from the car - why didn't he (GZ) just WATCH him until LE got there? We're talking a matter of minutes here.

JMHO

Ironhorse · Mar 24, 2012

Nali87 said:
1. You said it yourself, when someone passes by YOUR houses, and the fact it is your house is noticeable because maybe you're standing inside. It shows to outsiders that it was your house. Why would anyone expect a total stranger to ask them why they are on the streets? It doesn't make any sense. Do you walk up to strangers and randomly ask them what they're doing on so-and-so street?

As a matter of fact I have... But in doing so I already had drawn upon some sort of suspicion that lead me to inquire about their purpose being there... There is nothing criminal or wrong in asking someone a question.

2. George Zimmerman is not a cop. He was a stranger. Again, if you were walking alone and someone starting asking you personal details about yourself, and you know there are murders and psychos out there, and this man has been following you in his car, would YOU volunteer any information?

I have had this happen to me as well and I proceed very cautiously. My first reaction was to not behave suspiciously and secondly to ask who they are and why did they need to know...

Dr.Fessel · Mar 24, 2012

Ironhorse said:
#1 Putting the Neighborhood watch thing aside for the moment... He had as much right as you do to ask someone walking past your house why they are there.

#2, Evasion will only raise suspicion... Therefore if you have a stranger asking such things be cautious but don't make things worse by creating more suspicion on yourself.

As I've said before as time goes by everyone is going to learn this was nothing more than an incident cultivated by many missteps and errors on both parties fault that resulted in a young man losing his life.

Evasion saves your life. That is what you teach your kids when a strange man is chasing them in a neighborhood. You don't teach your kids to stand there listening to a stranger.

Nali87 · Mar 24, 2012

Wise Old Owl said:
Its called

Neighborhood WATCH

for a reason. You do just that WATCH. GZ knew the cops were en route and the dispatcher had already told him that "we don't need you to do that (follow him)". Ok, so Trayvon got out of GZ sight from the car - why didn't he (GZ) just WATCH him until LE got there? We're talking a matter of minutes here.

JMHO

Because he was sick of "these *******s" getting away and wanted to get one of them. He took the law into his own hands and nothing anyone can tell me will make me accept the self defense argument. Men who are scared for their life don't step out of their cars. Listening to the 911 calls, not one of those people wanted to even be NEAR their windows. George Zimmerman got out of his car.

vlpate · Mar 24, 2012

Dr.Fessel said:
I honestly can not see that. You have a 27 year old man and a 17 year old teen. The 27 year old has 10 more years of life experience. He is the one that mistakenly thought this was a guy on drugs or messed up with something wrong with him and was up to no good and was just like those guys who get away. You know those guys that break into homes and get away. All of that was wrong period. And with all of that delusion in his head he arms himself and gets out and gives chase. You can hear his running footsteps in the tape.

Now this guy is 27 years old, he had the benefit of age and knew how teens would act when pushed into a corner or a situation of flight or fight. He should have been able to think about the consequences of his actions and how would he react when he was a teen if a strange man started following him then chasing him. How would he react?

There was a considerable period of time on the 911 call when Zimmerman said Trayvon took off running - in fact, early on in the call. I listened to the tape again, and when the dispatcher asks for Zimmerman's address, he only gives the number and says - I think - "I don't want to give that, I don't know where he is." You'll have to listen to it and see if that's what you hear. The dispatcher didn't push Zimmerman for his address, so I'm going to assume that's probably what Zimmerman said.

Trayvon's father is on video, MSNBC, standing in the area where this all took place, he pointed and said Trayvon's destination was a football field away. If Trayvon was running and had a head start on Zimmerman, who was not running while on the call, he should have made it home, IMO. Why didn't he just run home?

Nali87 · Mar 24, 2012

Ironhorse said:
As a matter of fact I have... But in doing so I already had drawn upon some sort of suspicion that lead me to inquire about their purpose being there... There is nothing criminal or wrong in asking someone a question.

I have had this happen to me as well and I proceed very cautiously. My first reaction was to not behave suspiciously and secondly to ask who they are and why did they need to know...

As a young women, if someone is following me at night on the streets and I'm alone, I am not going to be interested in answering 21 questions. Especially not with all the criminals, rapists, child abductors, out there. This was at night, by someone who had been following him, by George Zimmerman own admittion. I doubt there are many people who would just stand there calmly and answers questions from someone who had been following them at night! You expect a LOT from a seventeen year old teen.

porkchop · Mar 24, 2012

Dr.Fessel said:
Evasion saves your life. That is what you teach your kids when a strange man is chasing them in a neighborhood. You don't teach your kids to stand there listening to a stranger.

It just amazes me that people who support Zimmerman or want to lay some blame on Trayvon say that he should not have tried to run from some stranger who was following him. I wonder if they tell their kids if somebody is following you that you should just stand there and let them have their way with you?

Dr.Fessel · Mar 24, 2012

Ironhorse said:
#1 Putting the Neighborhood watch thing aside for the moment... He had as much right as you do to ask someone walking past your house why they are there.

#2, Evasion will only raise suspicion... Therefore if you have a stranger asking such things be cautious but don't make things worse by creating more suspicion on yourself.

As I've said before as time goes by everyone is going to learn this was nothing more than an incident cultivated by many missteps and errors on both parties fault that resulted in a young man losing his life.

Ironhorse said:
As a matter of fact I have... But in doing so I already had drawn upon some sort of suspicion that lead me to inquire about their purpose being there... There is nothing criminal or wrong in asking someone a question.

I have had this happen to me as well and I proceed very cautiously. My first reaction was to not behave suspiciously and secondly to ask who they are and why did they need to know...

These people you asked a queston of, did you follow them in an SUV at night then get out of that SUV and chase them down? Were they just walking home and you dreamed up they were on drugs, up to no good and always getting away?

T4Tide · Mar 24, 2012

vlpate said:
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/frames/home_frames.html

GZ: It's a home (gives incomplete address) - ah crap, I don't want to get the he** out, I don't know where this kid is
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/911/call3.wav

Snipped by me for space.

You know, when I listened to the call, I thought he said, "ah crap... I don't want to give that out... I don't know who this kid is."

Meaning... he didn't want to give his actual address, because both parties get a copy of the written police report? I was hit by a drunk driver when I was 21, and the guy came to my house drunk later.

I need to listen again.

Nali87 · Mar 24, 2012

porkchop said:
It just amazes me that people who support Zimmerman or want to lay some blame on Trayvon say that he should not have tried to run from some stranger who was following him. I wonder if they tell their kids if somebody is following you that you should just stand there and let them have their way with you?

At night. With no one around! The well "he was wearing a hoodie" by people like Geraldo make me angry as well. Very similar to "well she shouldn't have worn that and she wouldn't have gotten raped".

Every instict in us tell us to be cautious, afraid of strangers. Blaming the victim for the irrational, senseless behaviour of the one who pulled the trigger doesn't make any sense.

curl_in_progress · Mar 24, 2012

Leaked voicemail from GZ to his neighbor.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/orlando...ins-george-zimmerman-voice-mail-28712026.html

vlpate · Mar 24, 2012

Wise Old Owl said:
Its called

Neighborhood WATCH

for a reason. You do just that WATCH. GZ knew the cops were en route and the dispatcher had already told him that "we don't need you to do that (follow him)". Ok, so Trayvon got out of GZ sight from the car - why didn't he (GZ) just WATCH him until LE got there? We're talking a matter of minutes here.

JMHO

I'm still not clear on how we know GZ followed him - my impression was he didn't know where he was when he hung up with the 911 operator. He clearly says "I don't know where this kid is."

Why was Trayvon staring at Zimmerman and why, instead of going home, did he start walking toward Zimmerman and then start running?

Why didn't he just run home?

I don't expect anyone to be clairvoyant and answer these, but these questions bug me. If Zimmerman was a vigilante out to kill a black kid, why call 911 and carry on a conversation? Why get into a scuffle or even ask questions - what was all the yelling about for almost one minute, why not just shoot him and forgo the busted nose?

Ironhorse · Mar 24, 2012

porkchop said:
It just amazes me that people who support Zimmerman or want to lay some blame on Trayvon say that he should not have tried to run from some stranger who was following him. I wonder if they tell their kids if somebody is following you that you should just stand there and let them have their way with you?

It's not that I'm laying blame on Mr. Martin but it would be foolish to not recognize that some of his behavior very likely added suspicion to the situation Mr. Zimmerman was confronted with. Does this wash away Mr. Zimmerman's responsibility to conduct himself in a professional manner, no it does not. However given the totality of the situation it does demonstrate how various missteps on both parties fault likely lead to this unfortunate situation...

Again Mr. Martin wasn't some child he was a 17 year old man.

mikeysmommom · Mar 24, 2012

Dr.Fessel said:
Evasion saves your life. That is what you teach your kids when a strange man is chasing them in a neighborhood. You don't teach your kids to stand there listening to a stranger.

I was just talking tonight about stranger danger to my Grandson,and if any stranger young or old, to run like the wind screaming help as loud as he can scream.Same thing I taught his 30yr old dad(When he was little lol).

flourish · Mar 24, 2012

Ironhorse said:
It's not that I'm laying blame on Mr. Martin but it would be foolish to not recognize that some of his behavior very likely added suspicion to the situation Mr. Zimmerman was confronted with. Does this wash away Mr. Zimmerman's responsibility to conduct himself in a professional manner, no it does not. However given the totality of the situation it does demonstrate how various missteps on both parties fault likely lead to this unfortunate situation...

Again Mr. Martin wasn't some child he was a 17 year old man.

RBBM

This is not true. He was a 17 year old boy. *sigh*

Nali87 · Mar 24, 2012

vlpate said:
I'm still not clear on how we know GZ followed him - my impression was he didn't know where he was when he hung up with the 911 operator. He clearly says "I don't know where this kid is."

Why was Trayvon staring at Zimmerman and why, instead of going home, did he start walking toward Zimmerman and then start running?

Why didn't he just run home?

I don't expect anyone to be clairvoyant and answer these, but these questions bug me. If Zimmerman was a vigilante out to kill a black kid, why call 911 and carry on a conversation? Why get into a scuffle or even ask questions - what was all the yelling about for almost one minute, why not just shoot him and forgo the busted nose?

My impression was that George Zimmerman knew where Trayvon was and then lost him at the last minute. He then decided to get out of the car and follow on foot which to me seems to mean that Trayvor went somewhere that a car couldn't follow him, since before that George Zimmerman was following him in his car.

And for your question, he probably thought he lost George, since in the 911 call George couldn't see him anymore and slowed down. Anything could be the case here. Maybe he stopped and said, "man, it's silly to run, maybe I imagined it", who knows? I don't see how it's important in this case either way.

And being a Vigilante is a whole different thing that being a cold-blooded murderer. He took the law into his own hands after being cautioned not to after deciding that Trayvon Martin was up to no good and probably on drugs, THAT's what makes him a vigilante not a need to go out and kill people.

vlpate · Mar 24, 2012

curl_in_progress said:
Leaked voicemail from GZ to his neighbor.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/orlando...ins-george-zimmerman-voice-mail-28712026.html

The family should be outraged that someone is selling exclusive voice messages to WESH and making money off their dead son. Someone simply wanting to help the new investigation would have given it to authorities. IMO

Is there something in this message that is meaningful? If there is, I missed it....anyone?

Wise Old Owl · Mar 24, 2012

curl_in_progress said:
Leaked voicemail from GZ to his neighbor.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/orlando...ins-george-zimmerman-voice-mail-28712026.html

Interesting. Sounds like this neighbor has lost lost his son and GZ was doing this to make a condolence call. At first, I didn't catch the name GZ said so when he started talking about the "loss of your son" I thought maybe he had called Mr. Martin.

WESH is a reputable source (they were a huge resouce in Caylee's case) and they said that GZ had just made this call today - meaning Friday I guess.

Odd, very odd............................

JMHO

FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

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