RU - Putin foes, feminist punk band Pussy Riot, jailed for 6 months after protest

I'm sure they'll be quaking in their balaclavas.

Huh?


In any case, wearing a balaclava shows a lack of commitment. If these girls were serious, they would show their faces and use their real names (or at least make their real names available). They aren't making any intelligent arguments, just using gimmicks, very much like the Occupy groups last year that were also of suspicious origin.
 
Political repression is hiding behind religion. What a great way to challenge this antiquated mentality than to say a loud, public prayer. Change doesn't come unless the status quo is challenged.

But what are the exact grievances? If you don't like religion, that's fine; but still you should let others practice their faith as they choose.
 
But what are the exact grievances? If you don't like religion, that's fine; but still you should let others practice their faith as they choose.
It's been evident in every article posted that their primary grievance was the Orthodox Church's support of Putin.

It has nothing to do with religion itself and everything to do with religion mainlining a certain political agenda. What does one do when their own faith supports political ideology they themselves do not agree with? MOO
 
Huh?


In any case, wearing a balaclava shows a lack of commitment. If these girls were serious, they would show their faces and use their real names (or at least make their real names available). They aren't making any intelligent arguments, just using gimmicks, very much like the Occupy groups last year that were also of suspicious origin.

Respectfully, I believe it's very simple for someone from the west to make such a statement. In much of the rest of the world political activism and feminism are so often met with social reprisal and persecution as well as prosecution. If not worse...

If they lacked intelligent argument and solely relied on gimmicks I doubt we would be having a discussion about them. ;) Obviously their 'gimmicks' appeal to a sector of society feeling angry, frustrated, ignored, and disenfranchised. This has occurred throughout history more often than I can even type. Some might argue that John Calvin enacting a hierarchy of church government, much to the opposition of noble families, was a gimmick. Or Thomas More's refusal to dismiss papal authority - for which he was found guilty of treason and executed - a gimmick.

http://www.ku.lt/sociologija/files/2005_nr.01.96-109.pdf
http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/nations-transit-2012/overview-essay
 
It's been evident in every article posted that their primary grievance was the Orthodox Church's support of Putin.

It has nothing to do with religion itself and everything to do with religion mainlining a certain political agenda. What does one do when their own faith supports political ideology they themselves do not agree with? MOO

You didn't answer my question. Please specify exactly what the grievances are.

If the sole grievance was that leaders of the R. O. Church support Putin, then why is that so terrible?

If the leaders of an African-American church supported Obama, would they also break in and stage protests during their church services?
 
Respectfully, I believe it's very simple for someone from the west to make such a statement. In much of the rest of the world political activism and feminism are so often met with social reprisal and persecution as well as prosecution. If not worse...

All political activism carries with it a risk of some type of retaliation. The girls are scared. They can yell and scream obscenities in a church, but faced with any consequences, they (tried to) hide under their balaclavas, much as the Occupiers used that Guy Faukes mask.

Note: Other theories exist as to why these theatrical leftist groups have been using masks recently. Could be that their membership is not as diverse as they would like it to be, and thereby weakens their own argument. Even they, the most stringently correct of the politically correct, can't attract a wide spectrum of people of other cultures to support them in campaigning for ... multiculturalism.

If they lacked intelligent argument and solely relied on gimmicks I doubt we would be having a discussion about them. ;) Obviously their 'gimmicks' appeal to a sector of society feeling angry, frustrated, ignored, and disenfranchised. This has occurred throughout history more often than I can even type. Some might argue that John Calvin enacting a hierarchy of church government, much to the opposition of noble families, was a gimmick. Or Thomas More's refusal to dismiss papal authority - for which he was found guilty of treason and executed - a gimmick.

http://www.ku.lt/sociologija/files/2005_nr.01.96-109.pdf
http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/nations-transit-2012/overview-essay

Using masks & face coverings is a gimmick. Calvin and More did not try to disguise their identities.


Apparently this video shows the actual incident in question:
[video=youtube;GCasuaAczKY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCasuaAczKY&feature=endscreen&NR=1[/video]

Description section as translated roughly by Google:


Uploaded by PussRiot on Feb 21, 2012
FULL POST on the punk prayer service, "Mother, Putin Put," which the soloist Pussy Riot served in the Cathedral of Christ the Savior in February 21st, Tuesday Pancake week -

Twitter Group: http://twitter.com/ #! / pussy_riot

TEXT OF PUNK-Prayer:

(Chorus)

Virgin, Virgin, Putin Put
Put Putin, Putin Put

(End chorus)

The black robe, gold epaulettes
All parishioners are crawling on the bow
The ghost of freedom in heaven
Pride sent to Siberia in chains

The head of the KGB, their chief saint
Leads protesters in prison under the escort
To His Holiness does not beat Oscor
Women need to have and to love

Holy ****, ****, **** the Lord
Holy ****, ****, **** the Lord

(Chorus)

Virgin, Virgin, become a feminist
Become a feminist, a feminist stand

(End chorus)

Church Praise rotten vodzhey
The procession of black limousines
In school you going to the preacher
Go to class - bring him money!

Patriarch Gundyaev believe in Putin's
It would be better in God, *****, believed
Belt of the Virgin is no substitute for meetings -
In protest of our Ever-Virgin Mary!

(Chorus)

Virgin, Virgin, Putin Put
Put Putin, Putin Put

(End chorus)


Pussy Riot does not have the sympathy of the Russian people.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012...E87F1E520120817?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews


Although Pussy Riot have never made a record or had a hit song, foreign singers have led the campaign for the trio's release. Madonna performed in Moscow with "PUSSY RIOT" painted on her back and wearing a ski mask in solidarity.
But a poll of Russians released by the independent Levada research group showed only 6 percent sympathized with the women and 51 percent found nothing good about them or felt irritation or hostility. The rest could not say or were indifferent.
Valentina Ivanova, 60, a retired doctor, said outside the courtroom: "What they did showed disrespect towards everything, and towards believers first of all."
 
It's been evident in every article posted that their primary grievance was the Orthodox Church's support of Putin.

Again, people just respond mindlessly to the mainstream media like Pavlov's dog. What exactly are their grievances with Putin or the R. O. Church?

US churches are extremely political, taking strong stands on public policies like gay marriage, abortion and immigration. In all truth, religion and politics cannot be separated.

It has nothing to do with religion itself and everything to do with religion mainlining a certain political agenda.

If a Jewish temple supports Israel, should they be shut down?

What does one do when their own faith supports political ideology they themselves do not agree with? MOO

If you don't agree with actions taken by your church, you switch churches.
 
Americans try to translate incidents into American terms, and may ask something like, What if a band like Hole protested in St. Patrick's cathedral?

But this scenario would not be directly analogous: St. Patrick's handles huge numbers of tourists daily, and has security guards prepared to deal with the public in all types of situations. The victimized congregation in the YouTube clip were serious religious people, including nuns, who seem shocked and unprepared as the rude young women jump up on an altar comprised of priceless art and also lit candelabras.

Also, one member of this band previously had had herself videotaped perpetrating a lewd act in a public supermarket.
 
Pussy Riot wave flag very similar to the flag of Otpor:

[video=youtube;7kVMADLm3js]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kVMADLm3js&feature=player_embedded[/video]

Pussy Riot member wearing symbol of Otpor at trial:

35413c_ltppussyriot.jpg



Wayne Madsen Criticism of Otpor:
http://www.intrepidreport.com/archives/4358

A new type of warfare was required by the elites: asymmetric warfare—the use of unconventional warfare tactics, including information warfare, by proxies, non-state actors, agents provocateur, and fifth columns.

Largely financed by hedge fund mega-tycoon George Soros and his Central Intelligence Agency interlocutors, our present asymmetric World War III was field tested just like any new product. ... Pro-western and pro-European Union governments, comprised of a number of individuals who were funded by Soros and other non-state operations established by the global elites, ... and others saw to it that new governments took root in Belgrade, Kiev, Tbilisi, and Bishkek. These new governments were not elected but took power as a result of themed street rebellions, a new manifestation of unconventional warfare.

No longer did armies, navies, and air forces have to face each other across battlefields and battle zones and theaters of warfare. One merely had to embed fifth columnists and provocateurs inside a targeted nation’s capital city, media, political party apparatus, and “civil society” infrastructure to bring about the defeat of the government outside the normal political process and replace it with a new government beholden to the desires of the central banks and global oligarchs.

The beginnings of the asymmetric world war began in Belgrade, Serbia, when Otpor—a Serbian resistance movement dedicated to overthrowing the Slobodon Milosevic regime—launched the first “themed revolution.” Otpor’s symbol was a clenched fist, an emblem that would reappear in the future in other capital cities from Kiev to Cairo. Otpor received massive funding from a network of Western contrivances, including George Soros’s Open Society Institute, the neoconservative-infiltrated U.S. National Endowment for Democracy, and various European Union-funded NGOs that were intimately linked to Soros’s “democracy engineering” operations.

Russia recently refused to support our newly attempted and completely unjustified war on Syria. Retaliation is Otpor-esque attacks funded and assisted by media billionaires.

We should be thanking Russia for helping to stop World War 3. War with Syria and Iran would be a totally unnecessary loss of possibly tens of thousands of American lives, while completely destroying our economic viability as a nation.

If Madsen is correct, and this agit-prop is the new warfare, our only defense is critical thought.
 
Political repression is hiding behind religion. What a great way to challenge this antiquated mentality than to say a loud, public prayer. Change doesn't come unless the status quo is challenged.

What aspect of the status quo were the young women protesting?
 
The brilliant British playwright, Caryl Churchill, wrote a play 20 years ago called Mad Forest. It deals with events in Romania after Ceausescu, but could be applied to Russia as well.

Basically it argues that the same thugs who ruled Communist dictatorships before 1989 spent the ensuing years re-consolidating their power and establishing new dictatorships under the pretense of democracy. (Ceausescu and his wife were executed, of course, but his henchmen merely took over in his stead.)

Bah!

That would never happen....LOL.
 
Pussy Riot wave flag very similar to the flag of Otpor:

Pussy Riot на Красной площади - песня "Путин зассал" - YouTube

Pussy Riot member wearing symbol of Otpor at trial:

35413c_ltppussyriot.jpg



Wayne Madsen Criticism of Otpor:
http://www.intrepidreport.com/archives/4358



Russia recently refused to support our newly attempted and completely unjustified war on Syria. Retaliation is Otpor-esque attacks funded and assisted by media billionaires.

We should be thanking Russia for helping to stop World War 3. War with Syria and Iran would be a totally unnecessary loss of possibly tens of thousands of American lives, while completely destroying our economic viability as a nation.

If Madsen is correct, and this agit-prop is the new warfare, our only defense is critical thought.


Ron Paul fan?

Interesting about the Otpor stuff.
 
So from what I'm reading in super simple terms.....

Pussy Riot hates Putin (the state)

The Orthodox Church backs Putin. (interwoven)

Pussy Riot is protesting the Church for being too involved with the State and not for the people.

Pussy Riot wants separation of Church and State.

Do I have this correct?
 
John Harris at guardian.co.uk:

From Pussy Riot, a lesson in the power of punk
Putin may have more serious critics, but Pussy Riot have
shown the west how artistic dissent can still make a difference


Excerpt:
---
In the west, we seem to have forgotten that popular culture once produced people who thought it was their duty to decry some of the most ingrained aspects of their societies, and thereby become lightning-rods for dissent. But the rise to prominence of Tolokonnikova et al proves that outside the UK and US, old ideas can assume new shapes and actually take on even greater power.
---
To be a mohican-wearing punk in London is to be a kitsch throwback – but in Indonesia or Burma, it can put you on the receiving end of heinous treatment from the authorities. Similarly, in London or Los Angeles, the legacy represented by Pussy Riot can perhaps only be glimpsed in an abiding strain of female fashion you can buy on any high street, whereas in Russia it will soon be on display in a penal colony.
---
the rest at link above
 
So from what I'm reading in super simple terms.....

Pussy Riot hates Putin (the state)

The Orthodox Church backs Putin. (interwoven)

Pussy Riot is protesting the Church for being too involved with the State and not for the people.

Pussy Riot wants separation of Church and State.

Do I have this correct?

What's troubling is that don't seem to have any specific criticisms of the behavior of the Church. What exactly did the Church do to provoke all this rage?
 
John Harris at guardian.co.uk:

From Pussy Riot, a lesson in the power of punk
Putin may have more serious critics, but Pussy Riot have
shown the west how artistic dissent can still make a difference


Excerpt: ... the legacy represented by Pussy Riot ...

the rest at link above

Their legacy is going to be that supermarket video, and the question as to why Obama ever bothered to support such perversion.
 
Separation of Church & State has frequently become an issue in the US. Usually one church is receiving government grants, or privileges, that other groups may think is unfair.

If the protesters merely published an article describing ways in which they feel that the R.O. Church is being given unfair benefits, they would have much more effective.

But do they actually have such concerns? Or is attacking the Church just a way of ridiculing the concept of a uniquely Russian culture, and therefore attacking Russian nationalism?
 
Really? you really think publishing a paper would have garnered the world wide attention they are getting now? :what:
 
What's troubling is that don't seem to have any specific criticisms of the behavior of the Church. What exactly did the Church do to provoke all this rage?

It's vague...but from the best I can tell......

The three say the protest was a way to fight President Vladimir Putin's tightly controlled political system and draw attention to the strengthening relationship between the Kremlin and the Russian Orthodox Church.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/15/russia-pussyriot-church-idUSL6E8JD8V820120815
 

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