Photo discrepancies

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Bonepile said:
Yes I am .. or I think I am .. anyway after what seems like weeks I am backing photoshopping, and still very interested in this case. Been away for 10 days and amazed at all I have missed, and all you have contributed, but I am back, or is that "he" is back? Thanks. :)
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:floorlaugh: Either way, youu have been sorely missed and I am SO happy to see you, errr 'he', or him. lol!!
 
smart blonde said:
The same thing was running through my mind as I was viewing the photos. This little 'voice' in the back of my head was hollering in indignation that they are showing pictures of a murder victim's naked, exposed and seemingly vulnerable body on the Internet- just mere months after the crime was committed.Then I remembered that she was being passed off as a suicide. Somehow, that lie makes it even worse.
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I am still so very mad every time I think of that wonderful, kind, beautiful woman lying there "naked" for everyone to gawk at for how many hours I would love to see that justice was done for her and to hell with waiting for search warrants .. cover her up. If I could sue these unfeeling bastards for that very reason alone I would .. I can tell you that. Instead I pray for an independent review of this case.
 
SunnieRN said:
Just wish to add that these pictures make me feel sick. Not believing this is a suicide, makes these so much harder to even visualize.
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Me too Sunnie. Me too.

We hardly knew Rebecca then, but feel like we do so much more now.
And OMG the pictures remind me yet again that the official conclusion reached just seems so absolutely absurd.
 
IWannaKnow said:
So really all this discussion plays to time of death. Her legs were clearly bent, indicating she was in full rigor when cut down and laid on the grass. At 6:48? IDK. Do we have any idea what time these photos were taken by the helicopter?
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Well, yeah, and how did her legs get bent? Clearly, she somehow hung herself and held her legs in that position for hours afterward :crazy:
 
I believe she was hog tied and hanged off the balcony time. That was why her legs were bent that way.
 
IWannaKnow said:
I believe she was hog tied and hanged off the balcony time. That was why her legs were bent that way.
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I think she HAD to be hog tied or tied to a chair. Where livity was set would help.

My comment was sarcastic - how on earth do you come to the conclusion it was suicide if the legs were bent like that because rigor mortis set in. The only possible explanation I can come up with other than the ones we all (mostly) suspect is that somehow she dropped to the ground when she was hung, enough to bend or break her legs, she stayed that way until rigor set in - but then that would also mean Adam was lying.

So, it looks like either Adam was lying anyway because he would have cut the rope off that made it a hog tie when he found her or he told LE and they kept it from the public. Either way, there is no explanation.
 
I believe that the overturned chair in that guest bedroom plays a role as to why her legs are clearly bent and she is in rigor. It also would explain the livor mortis on her back instead of her feet, lower legs or only the left side of her body. It would also explain why her legs are not only bent but apart from each other.

MOO
 
The only other possible conclusion is that he laid her in the grass that way and since she laid there for 12 hours, rigor could have set in during that time. That would also change the pattern from livor mortis. I'm proper irritated that the ME waited until 7:00 to show up at the scene! I can't imagine what was SOOOOO important that he needed to wait that long.

I wonder if LE knew that the hospital was going to file paperwork with CPS?
 
The only problem with rigor setting in while she was on the grass is that not only are her legs bent but they are also apart from each other. If you lay on the ground with legs bent on your side your knees will naturally fall together unless you or something makes them stay apart. Since Rebecca's knees were apart, it is MO that rigor had to have set in before she was put on the grass.

ETA: The AR also does not state that livor mortis was on the left posterior, it states that livor mortis was on the posterior. This tells me that livor mortis was present on her back, not the left side of her back.
 
TorisMom003 said:
I believe that the overturned chair in that guest bedroom plays a role as to why her legs are clearly bent and she is in rigor. It also would explain the livor mortis on her back instead of her feet, lower legs or only the left side of her body. It would also explain why her legs are not only bent but apart from each other.

MOO
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So would a hog tied suspension:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Model_in_suspended_hogtie.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Model_in_classic_Hogtie.jpg

I think the livor mortis on her back is because she was allowed to lay in the courtyard for 12 hours, not because of the position in which she died.
 
IWannaKnow said:
The only other possible conclusion is that he laid her in the grass that way and since she laid there for 12 hours, rigor could have set in during that time. That would also change the pattern from livor mortis. I'm proper irritated that the ME waited until 7:00 to show up at the scene! I can't imagine what was SOOOOO important that he needed to wait that long.

I wonder if LE knew that the hospital was going to file paperwork with CPS?
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Shouldn't all this, one way or the other, have been noted and explained in the autopsy? And, even if this is the case, the pattern of lividity would have been set (at least partially) before she was laid on the grass if she, in fact, died before 3 am. Shouldn't they be able to tell if her legs were in rigor, in that position, when she was laid down or not?
 
Both of you make excellent points about the legs being apart - I think it excludes her legs being bent when she was laid on the grass. I can't find the photo now, but her head/neck was also in rigor and either bent forward or straight. Otherwise why wouldn't her head be over to the side or back in those pics even if her arms are behind her.
 
time said:
Shouldn't all this, one way or the other, have been noted and explained in the autopsy? And, even if this is the case, the pattern of lividity would have been set (at least partially) before she was laid on the grass if she, in fact, died before 3 am. Shouldn't they be able to tell if her legs were in rigor, in that position, when she was laid down or not?
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Especially when you take in to account that her legs do not show evidence of being found hanging for at least 3 hours. Nothing makes sense, nothing was explained.
 
Being hog tied and hung from the balcony would show livor mortis in a different area. Now she could have been hog tied while in the chair that was knocked over during her death and that would explain all of the occurances that we have. Imagine sitting in a chair with hands behind the chair bound, legs and feet bound beside or behind the legs of the chair, then the chair on it's back with Rebecca still in it and left in that position for hours before being hung. In my mind I see this as the best "fit" for what we have as far as evidence goes.

MOO

ETA: I also say hours in that position because I do think that the murder was committed by someone and then another person came in, found her and stagged, cleaned up the area.
 
TorisMom003 said:
The only problem with rigor setting in while she was on the grass is that not only are her legs bent but they are also apart from each other. If you lay on the ground with legs bent on your side your knees will naturally fall together unless you or something makes them stay apart. Since Rebecca's knees were apart, it is MO that rigor had to have set in before she was put on the grass.

ETA: The AR also does not state that livor mortis was on the left posterior, it states that livor mortis was on the posterior. This tells me that livor mortis was present on her back, not the left side of her back.
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You got me there TorisMom. The legs should have fallen together if she was not that far advanced in rigor, which she shouldn't have been if TOD was approximately 3am. However, we don't know exactly when these photos were taken.
 
TorisMom003 said:
Being hog tied and hung from the balcony would show livor mortis in a different area. Now she could have been hog tied while in the chair that was knocked over during her death and that would explain all of the occurances that we have. Imagine sitting in a chair with hands behind the chair bound, legs and feet bound beside or behind the legs of the chair, then the chair on it's back with Rebecca still in it and left in that position for hours before being hung. In my mind I see this as the best "fit" for what we have as far as evidence goes.

MOO

ETA: I also say hours in that position because I do think that the murder was committed by someone and then another person came in, found her and stagged, cleaned up the area.
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Not if she were cut down before livor set, which is generally 8 to 12 hours.
 
TorisMom003 said:
Being hog tied and hung from the balcony would show livor mortis in a different area. Now she could have been hog tied while in the chair that was knocked over during her death and that would explain all of the occurances that we have. Imagine sitting in a chair with hands behind the chair bound, legs and feet bound beside or behind the legs of the chair, then the chair on it's back with Rebecca still in it and left in that position for hours before being hung. In my mind I see this as the best "fit" for what we have as far as evidence goes.

MOO

ETA: I also say hours in that position because I do think that the murder was committed by someone and then another person came in, found her and stagged, cleaned up the area.
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If lividity is in her back, I can't see her being hung, hog tied, when it set, you are right.
 
At what point does rigor set in? At what point does livor set in? If rigor sets in before livor then yes, that might work. If livor sets in before rigor then no, it would not work.

ETA: I forgot that the AR states that livor mortis was on the posterior, not on the left posterior so that might not work after all no matter which one sets first.
 
There was also livor mortis in her chest. Remember? That has NEVER been explained to my knowledge and has bugged me since the day the AR was released.:waitasec:
 
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