Caylee opening the sliding glass door photo

BigMomma · Feb 23, 2012

Soulmagent said:
I dont understand how it held her mandible in place either. I dont buy the laundry bag idea .I do think the tpe was on Caylee's face. I just dont buy that it was still there holding the mandible. I think Roy kronk set the skull on the mandible and used the tape to kepe the skull from tipping back over. JMO.

Sometimes I do think 'what if' somebody connected got a hairbrained idea going up their backside and took some of what was used on the posters from a trash can and put in in the same area of where Caylee was at? I know it is hard to imagine, but seems to me some kind of histronics had happened before with some type of beads that were supposedly in OCA's room and then found at JB Park. I don't want to re-hash, no need to do so, but somebody in that tight little group knew and knows more than what they have said and what they have done. Hard thing to do, but I have tried many times to put myself into the grandparent/parent position and a lot of things that were said and done I'd never think of in a million years. I could not implicate my child of car theft knowing full well that same child always drove that car and I paid for the insurance, I could not implicate my child of money theft unless it happened right at the very same time the grandchild went missing, I would never hang myself out in the wind for 31 days knowing my child and grandchild that I supported 100% had always lived with me and then disappeared-some type of police report would be made if only for a welfare check. I also would not be supporting my child if I had an inkling that she did something really bad-I could not and would not put money into a jail account so my child could eat whatever-I'd be too ticked off and wouldn't care if she had to eat toliet paper-I'd want the darn truth, I'd be beyond devastated for my grandchild and my child could sit and rot for all I'd care - Sorry but that's exactly how I would react on this. Parents usually have a built in radar device known as intuition and in OCA's case, her parents knew what she was, but for some idiotic reason, they kept up the ruse. Makes me so angry all over again. Sorry!

BigMomma · Feb 23, 2012

tsitra01 said:
I can't let it go. I just want to know that someway, somehow she (caseyAnthony) the felon will be held responsible for what she did to Caylee. When that day comes, it will be so "exciting". A word she likes to use when referring to herself.

I try and push past every other thing that could have possibly happened and it still comes right back to OCA. No matter what-like the BIG gripe about her dad-He doesn't rate high on my sympathy meter, but the fact STILL remains IF jojo did these things, why did OCA leave Caylee there and walk away? Why didn't she spill this info to LE instead of taking them on a wild goose chase? If somebody had tried and brainwashed her into thinking she'd be the only 1 who'd go down for this because of her questionable lifestyle with the guys in her life if she said who actually did this(I mean if by chance:waitasec: it was somebody else)why didn't she just tell the truth instead of making up all these grandstanding stories? That baby girl was her property, that little girl depended on her mother 1st and foremost. If it was a case of OCA wanting to leave and her parents saying you can but Caylee stays, she could have fought back, but did she? NO, she did not do ANYTHING to remedy any situation if there was one except to choose to make Caylee expendable in such a callous way. Surprised? No only because look how she callously blamed a lot of other people for this act of violence while she still plays her games and won't answer any questions-rather sit on her fab computer with her duck lips and tease for dough. Do I sound like 1 angry citizen wanting complete justice-You best believe it! I want to hear the hard knock of Reality on her front door and I want to hear her words, not some hide and seek carp.

BTW, When my grand daughter was here at Christmastime, we were outside playing with the doorbell because it plays many tunes, especially Christmas tunes-anyway-she is a bit over 2 yr old - she actually took a small plastic footstool, took it to the front door, stood up on it and kept ringing the bell. I'm not saying Caylee could have moved a ladder-thats impossible, but opening doors ? maybe, climbing into a pool on her own-very possible if the ladder was up, but could have fallen before getting to the top-what the heck could have been going on in that house that nobody could notice Caylee was missing:waitasec:. I want to know why some of those cap locks for the doors were on the inside instead of the outside of th bedroom doors, but nothing to secure a slider? Can't help but think why on earth somebody did not put up a barrier fence between play area and the pool-I mean if what they say happened is truth:waitasec:. I don't think the pool had anything to do with what happened, just another tool to use in the grand scheme of their things.

Horace Finklestein · Feb 23, 2012

BigMomma said:
I try and push past every other thing that could have possibly happened and it still comes right back to OCA. No matter what-like the BIG gripe about her dad-He doesn't rate high on my sympathy meter, but the fact STILL remains IF jojo did these things, why did OCA leave Caylee there and walk away? Why didn't she spill this info to LE instead of taking them on a wild goose chase? If somebody had tried and brainwashed her into thinking she'd be the only 1 who'd go down for this because of her questionable lifestyle with the guys in her life if she said who actually did this(I mean if by chance:waitasec: it was somebody else)why didn't she just tell the truth instead of making up all these grandstanding stories? That baby girl was her property, that little girl depended on her mother 1st and foremost. If it was a case of OCA wanting to leave and her parents saying you can but Caylee stays, she could have fought back, but did she? NO, she did not do ANYTHING to remedy any situation if there was one except to choose to make Caylee expendable in such a callous way. Surprised? No only because look how she callously blamed a lot of other people for this act of violence while she still plays her games and won't answer any questions-rather sit on her fab computer with her duck lips and tease for dough. Do I sound like 1 angry citizen wanting complete justice-You best believe it! I want to hear the hard knock of Reality on her front door and I want to hear her words, not some hide and seek carp.

BTW, When my grand daughter was here at Christmastime, we were outside playing with the doorbell because it plays many tunes, especially Christmas tunes-anyway-she is a bit over 2 yr old - she actually took a small plastic footstool, took it to the front door, stood up on it and kept ringing the bell. I'm not saying Caylee could have moved a ladder-thats impossible, but opening doors ? maybe, climbing into a pool on her own-very possible if the ladder was up, but could have fallen before getting to the top-what the heck could have been going on in that house that nobody could notice Caylee was missing:waitasec:. I want to know why some of those cap locks for the doors were on the inside instead of the outside of th bedroom doors, but nothing to secure a slider? Can't help but think why on earth somebody did not put up a barrier fence between play area and the pool-I mean if what they say happened is truth:waitasec:. I don't think the pool had anything to do with what happened, just another tool to use in the grand scheme of their things.

Well the truth is she hadn't been fed that lie by Mr. Baez yet and wasn't able to come up with it. If she'd been able to I'm sure she would have used that at the time.

Horace Finklestein · Feb 23, 2012

Soulmagent said:
I dont understand how it held her mandible in place either. I dont buy the laundry bag idea .I do think the tpe was on Caylee's face. I just dont buy that it was still there holding the mandible. I think Roy kronk set the skull on the mandible and used the tape to kepe the skull from tipping back over. JMO.

And you honestly think that sounds realistic? Why would he so that? I feel so bad for Mr. Kronk being lied about by DT now he has to take a beating here too.

BigMomma · Feb 23, 2012

Horace Finklestein said:
Well the truth is she hadn't been fed that lie by Mr. Baez yet and wasn't able to come up with it. If she'd been able to I'm sure she would have used that at the time.

I hear ya. I liken it to a game of Fish-Pick a card any card and see if it will raise a flag of doubt. LA was blamed prior but for show GA got picked to be the big stinker, just for show-lights, camera, action.

I wonder how long it is going to take before a lot of them start turning on each other-like just after OCA gets off probation. It'll be something else all over again with him and him and her and him being sued for this, that and everything in between.

miss plum · Feb 23, 2012

Soulmagent said:
I dont understand how it held her mandible in place either. I dont buy the laundry bag idea .I do think the tpe was on Caylee's face. I just dont buy that it was still there holding the mandible. I think Roy kronk set the skull on the mandible and used the tape to kepe the skull from tipping back over. JMO.

Why would Roy Kronk have any vested interested in the position of Caylee's mandible? How would he even know what it was, let alone how to position it in its exact anatomically correct position? The position of the mandible is not pertinent to anything except that it proves the duct tape was over Caylee's face prior to decomposition. How would Roy Kronk know anything about that? He is not a mandible reader.

These mandible discussions always reminds me horribly of those internet fetal experts who went on and on about poor Conner Peterson's tiny body and Laci's "abraded" uterus as they tried to impose absurd possible scenarios to replace the simple obvious actual one and try to get the filthy murderer off. When people have to revert to utter nonsense to reverse engineer a crime it just further emphasizes who the culprit is, IMO.

Soulmagent · Feb 23, 2012

Horace Finklestein said:
And you honestly think that sounds realistic? Why would he so that? I feel so bad for Mr. Kronk being lied about by DT now he has to take a beating here too.

Roy said himself in a statement to police he lifted the skull ,so yes I do think it sounds realistic.

I am not beating on Roy, I am speculating on what I honestly believe he did.

I believe he found Caylee's skull and lifted it with his meter stick and used the duck tape that was still stuck and matted in her hair to prop up her jaw.

I dont understand why that is so unrealistic. I didnt say he took her home with him ,I think it is much more simple then that he found her and placed her skull back on her mandible, except skulls dont really sit like that without being propped up. The weight and shape of them doesnt allow for it so it is unrealistic to believe it landed that way on its own, and even more so with its mandible being held on by non sticky duck tape resting UNDER it. JMO.

What is so unrealistic about what I believe ?

I think people are reading more into it then there is,. I do not think Roy took Caylee in the woods. I dont believe he had anything to do with the case other then finding her and propping her skull upright.

It is not hard to place a mandible back in place. On a human or an animal.

Zoe Bogart · Feb 23, 2012

Desdemona said:
This is what eats at me.

Seriously?

I will never understand how the P12 made these baffling, illogical, convoluted leaps that make no sense... To them, a photo of a child on tippy-toe reaching for the handle of a sliding door equals an accidental drowning that was never reported. WTH?

And they arrived at this conclusion without reviewing any evidence or court testimony -- and with no explanation for why a beautiful and beloved baby was allowed to die with no resuscitation attempts nor any calls for help made by her mother or the grandfather who supposedly witnessed this "drowning;" no clue as to why this "accidental" death was covered up by them both in the first place; why her grandfather who loved her dearly would callously dump her body out in the woods to rot and be eaten by bugs and ravaged by animals; why this grandfather would stand by wearing a "Find Caylee" t-shirt while his daughter was charged and jailed, why he would point investigators to evidence of his daughter's guilt and beg her to tell them the truth... or why this grandfather allowed his "innocent" daughter to sit in jail for three years, unjustly accused and facing not only the death penalty, but the scorn and wrath of the entire nation as well, racking up hundreds of thousands of dollars at the expense of Florida taxpayers... Nor why anyone with something to hide would rather face the story of a child that's missing, abducted, duct-taped, murdered, garbage-bagged, dumped... than a child who "accidentally drowned" in the family pool...

How could anyone with even one functioning brain cell possibly swallow this bogus story, given the facts and the evidence presented?

And yet, to these jurors, when the same baby -- whose very life was denied by her family for the first 7 months of her existence, and whose lying, thieving, con-artist mother referred to her as "snothead" and "the offspring" and "the kid" -- was found discarded dead and skeletonized in pieces in a swampy trash dump (conveniently right down the street from her house) in garbage bags with duct tape around her face and wearing a shirt implying she was "big trouble;" a baby who was the subject of an ongoing war between her mother and grandmother, and was never reported missing by this "spiteful b*tch" of an "unfit mother" who abandoned a decomp-reeking car (and lied about it), stayed away from home for 31 days, made up lies about where her baby was -- a mom who blamed an innocent woman for kidnapping, allowed thousands of people to waste thousands of dollars and hours searching and raising funds for a child she allegedly knew was dead, and allowed her attorneys to blame, point fingers, and ruin the lives of many innocent people -- a woman who herself sat silently in jail for three long years with the death penalty hanging over her head before her attorney dropped the outlandish zinger at her murder trial, and who went forward with that trial, brazenly allowing the family dysfunction and forensic photos of her baby's remains to be broadcast to the entire world -- Yeah, for the stellar P12, all these facts bizarrely added up to:

Nothing.

If I live to be 100, I will never get my head around this travesty, nor the unspeakable injustice done to poor sweet Caylee with their verdict. Shame on them, and shame on the A's and the DT for using pictures of Caylee to blame the baby for her own death. IMO the word 'sickening' doesn't even begin to cover it.

Grrrrrr.... :banghead:
(All IMO. Sorry for the rant and the run-on sentences; just had to vent.)

The P12 didn't take time to listen to testimonies, review testimonies, or carefully examine evidence because they had more important things to do: cruises, children's movies, choosing restaurants, looking at pools they couldn't swim in without an escort. All very important stuff to them. Saying Caylee could reach the door handle and could climb into the pool was an easy out for them. Plus George was such an easy mark. Damn the evidence, damn the facts, THEY WANTED TO GO HOME.

Rant at will, your rants are far more intellectual than the "reasonings" of the P12+5.

Zoe Bogart · Feb 23, 2012

Soulmagent said:
Roy said himself in a statement to police he lifted the skull ,so yes I do think it sounds realistic.

I am not beating on Roy, I am speculating on what I honestly believe he did.

I believe he found Caylee's skull and lifted it with his meter stick and used the duck tape that was still stuck and matted in her hair to prop up her jaw.

I dont understand why that is so unrealistic. I didnt say he took her home with him ,I think it is much more simple then that he found her and placed her skull back on her mandible, except skulls dont really sit like that without being propped up. The weight and shape of them doesnt allow for it so it is unrealistic to believe it landed that way on its own, and even more so with its mandible being held on by non sticky duck tape resting UNDER it. JMO.

What is so unrealistic about what I believe ?

I think people are reading more into it then there is,. I do not think Roy took Caylee in the woods. I dont believe he had anything to do with the case other then finding her and propping her skull upright.

It is not hard to place a mandible back in place. On a human or an animal.

We know the skull didn't "roll out of the bag" as stated by Mr. K, because it was imbedded in the muck. It had to be removed with the muck surrounding it. So how was Mr. K supposed to place that tape around the mandible?

I'll bet if CA had gotten her hands on those remains first, there wouldn't have been any tape in sight afterwards, and those remains would have been well hidden so no one would have found them. If she could interject pet burials, pics of Caylee climbing to the pool, and a pic of a little girl trying to open their glass door into a murder trial, then she could have easily absconded with the remains. Her detectives weren't worth the money they were paid even with instructions! She "won" anyway. It just cost the state tons of money.

TotallyObsessed · Feb 23, 2012

You know what might clear up all the "was the tape there or not" questions? If they released a picture of the skull as found in the woods. Voila. I think that would tell the whole story. I understand out of respect for Caylee they have not, but a this point I don't think it would be any more of an injustice to her that what has been done.

LambChop · Feb 23, 2012

Soulmagent said:
Roy said himself in a statement to police he lifted the skull ,so yes I do think it sounds realistic.

I am not beating on Roy, I am speculating on what I honestly believe he did.

I believe he found Caylee's skull and lifted it with his meter stick and used the duck tape that was still stuck and matted in her hair to prop up her jaw.

I dont understand why that is so unrealistic. I didnt say he took her home with him ,I think it is much more simple then that he found her and placed her skull back on her mandible, except skulls dont really sit like that without being propped up. The weight and shape of them doesnt allow for it so it is unrealistic to believe it landed that way on its own, and even more so with its mandible being held on by non sticky duck tape resting UNDER it. JMO.

What is so unrealistic about what I believe ?

I think people are reading more into it then there is,. I do not think Roy took Caylee in the woods. I dont believe he had anything to do with the case other then finding her and propping her skull upright.

It is not hard to place a mandible back in place. On a human or an animal.

I think the main reason it is unrealistic is because that is not what the medical examiner stated happened. Unless we were there and actually viewed the autopsy along with the ME only they can report the truth. And I believe it was testified to in court, and Dr. Spitz agreed, it is not easy to replace the mandible once it is off. Reading the reports from discovery are very beneficial in clearing up that matter and it's really not difficult to understand.

Mr. Kronk has a lawsuit for statements made through the media on just this subject because there was never any proof by DT that this ever took place or a motive for why someone would even do it. Also there was no glue left on the tape, none, zip, nada. The tape had been with the remains for months. Placing the tape on the remains after decomposition would have left some DNA or fingerprints and there were none due to the length of time the tape was exposed to the elements. jmo

Still_Seek_Answers · Feb 23, 2012

Aqua_Green_Bean said:
I think it is her. I think it is possible that the door was left cracked and it is a picture of her trying to open it more, not that she necessarily opened it herself. Also, I have seen people say how heavy those doors are and how hard they are to open. That depends on how new it is, how well it is on the track and oiled/slicked (i.e. WD40).

I agree......I do not think she actually opened the door at all, and I think the prosecutors failed terribly by not pointing that fact out more. All the photo shows is her little hand on the handle. That in no way proves she could open it, or even that she could have opened it further.

LambChop · Feb 23, 2012

Still_Seek_Answers said:
I agree......I do not think she actually opened the door at all, and I think the prosecutors failed terribly by not pointing that fact out more. All the photo shows is her little hand on the handle. That in no way proves she could open it, or even that she could have opened it further.

I am still baffled by the prosecutors didn't ask for the original picture because it appears to be from a video. jmo

watcher9 · Feb 23, 2012

Did they even ask CA or GA if Caylee had ever actually opened the door by herself?
I can't remember anything any more.

TotallyObsessed · Feb 23, 2012

I know that I have on occasion tried to open a sliding glass door, say at a hotel. Some of those are HARD HARD HARD to open. I stayed at the beach last year and nearly threw my back just trying to open the one in our room. So, if somebody had snapped a pic of me when I first walked up and put my hand on the door, it would look like I was opening it. But if they had snapped a follow up pic a few seconds later, I would have looked like I was wrestling a bear trying to open the dang door.

FLmom777 · Feb 23, 2012

TotallyObsessed said:
You know what might clear up all the "was the tape there or not" questions? If they released a picture of the skull as found in the woods. Voila. I think that would tell the whole story. I understand out of respect for Caylee they have not, but a this point I don't think it would be any more of an injustice to her that what has been done.

Ashton stated in an interview that he saw the tape across her face from ear to ear.

LambChop · Feb 23, 2012

TotallyObsessed said:
I know that I have on occasion tried to open a sliding glass door, say at a hotel. Some of those are HARD HARD HARD to open. I stayed at the beach last year and nearly threw my back just trying to open the one in our room. So, if somebody had snapped a pic of me when I first walked up and put my hand on the door, it would look like I was opening it. But if they had snapped a follow up pic a few seconds later, I would have looked like I was wrestling a bear trying to open the dang door.

And that handle was at your waist level. Imagine trying to pull it open when the handle is over your head. There is no leverage to pull on the handle. Caylee would have had to have two hands and standing at the side pulling to even try to move the door. So opening a door at her age unless the door slides easily would not be possible from the position of that picture. jmo

TotallyObsessed · Feb 23, 2012

FLmom777 said:
Ashton stated in an interview that he saw the tape across her face from ear to ear.

Oh, I know. But the supporting PUBLIC would probably see things differently if they saw that picture.

Horace Finklestein · Feb 23, 2012

watcher9 said:
Did they even ask CA or GA if Caylee had ever actually opened the door by herself?
I can't remember anything any more.

Of course CA was allowed to commit perjury and Perry didn't bat an eye (it's ok though folks because it happens all the time). Unfortunately the prosecution was hamstrung by the Anthony's being allowed to lie. Nothing they asked really would have mattered because the response would have been a lie.

Nore · Feb 23, 2012

miss plum said:
Why would Roy Kronk have any vested interested in the position of Caylee's mandible? How would he even know what it was, let alone how to position it in its exact anatomically correct position? The position of the mandible is not pertinent to anything except that it proves the duct tape was over Caylee's face prior to decomposition. How would Roy Kronk know anything about that? He is not a mandible reader.

These mandible discussions always reminds me horribly of those internet fetal experts who went on and on about poor Conner Peterson's tiny body and Laci's "abraded" uterus as they tried to impose absurd possible scenarios to replace the simple obvious actual one and try to get the filthy murderer off. When people have to revert to utter nonsense to reverse engineer a crime it just further emphasizes who the culprit is, IMO.

---------------
All someone need do is read the autopsy report and listen to Dr. G's statement and they will know all the ins and outs. Thank you Miss Plum for explaining this. :seeya:

Caylee opening the sliding glass door photo

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