FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #11

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I will say for the record that I think that LE has zero obligation to let us know anything about this case. The only problem I have is that they fell like they are obligated to name a suspect and then not follow thru with an arrest. The longer it goes on with out one the more it will seem that they have made a mistake and jumped to conclusions.

What are people's opinions about how long LE should wait until they arrest Dale?

Until they have a solid case.

It is such a shame when police jump the gun on an arrest, and the perp walks free because the police don't have their ducks in a row at trial. Even when further evidence comes forward later, that person can never be retried- LE should be certain they have all the evidence they're going to be able to find before making an arrest. I think it would be a mistake to arrest him until they find a body. (unless there is something we don't know about- such as an extreme amount of blood in her vehicle((which i doubt)) or something that indicates death) I know murders have been prosecuted without bodies - but there is usually only a conviction if there are factors such as a crime scene that indicates death.
 
Do you think they will search through the weekend?

Yes. Based on what Michelle Parker's brother was quoted as saying about the search today:


Occasionally, searchers would confer with Parker's family under a tent, where the family patiently waited.
"They told me personally that they are going to be out here, and they are going to be searching until they find her," Dustin Erickson said.
Read more: http://www.wesh.com/news/29961305/detail.html#ixzz1g68ims7O
 
------snipped------

Are the twins not even getting to see their half-brother? Anyone hear any more info on a visitation with their family?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...rker-missing-orlando-20111209,0,5665822.story

Also on Friday, lawyers for Smith and Parker's family discussed visitation for the couple's children.

The 3-year-old boy-girl twins have been staying with Smith and his family since Parker disappeared, but have spent the majority of their lives living with Parker at her mother Yvonne Stewart's home.

Stewart's attorney Matt Morgan said the details of the visitation agreement could be worked out as early as Friday or possibly on Monday, but it was unclear Friday evening if a deal had been reached.
 
Jazzmaster, you are only permitted to copy 10% of that article and must link back to the article's site.
 
I have a question: On the map, the location of the hair salon is marked as located on the east side of Oviedo. Is this roughly accurate? I know that we're not supposed to post the name or address, but I'd like to know if the map indicates the approximate location, and that the salon isn't, in fact, more to the west.

Thanks anyone who can help!
 
I agree there are arguments around the kids paradox, but it doesn't dismiss the fact he still had the children to deal with. Plus time constraints put a real problem on DS Jr having done this. Anyone who's just murdered their ex-fiance now knows they must dispose of the body, ditch the vehicle and phone plus get back home before the law comes knocking on the door... Obviously anyone committing such an act knows he can't keep the body any where close to his home or any place connected to his family.

Those of you have paid close attention know I've not said DS Jr is innocent. He should be on the radar he had motive but it takes more than motive. I'm just saying I'm not going to rush to judgment as he might not have had anything to do with MP disappearance. There is other possibilities and to ignore them would be reckless.

As for DS Jr behavior about not wanting to take a lie detector. That means nothing to me I wouldn't take one either regardless if I was only being asked if the sky was blue. Just refusing to take a lie detector is enough for many people to already assume a person must be guilty of something. Actually taking one and passing only invokes suspicion that the person was crafty enough to get a positive result. That's a far cry from being thought of as innocent.

If Mp was headed home after dropping off the kids then it's only reasonable she would have taken the quickest route home. If this be the case then she would have driven east along Lee Vista Blvd to catch the 417 north. What's to keep her from being abducted along that route? Maybe some punks saw a nice Hummer with an attractive frail female they thought was easy pickings?

Do you have any evidence/links to support your abduction/car thief theory?
 
Jazzmaster, you are only permitted to copy 10% of that article and must link back to the article's site.

Sorry i am a newbie here. Just fixed it. Was so excited about this as it answered many of my questions... GUILTY!
 
Timeline of 11/17/2011

In those earlier morning hours Nate stated he had to go into work late that day so he and Michelle had coffee together and they talked about their day.
**tho NM says the two stayed in contact throughout the day, however their having coffee together was the last time that he'd see Michelle**
[MSM, NM]

9:21am Michelle sent her sister Lauren a text message that stated:
"Keratin today?"
**time and text both verified by video of sister, Lauren's phone showing the texts she exchanged with Michelle that morning**
[MSM, sister, Lauren]

9:42am Sister, Lauren sends a reply text message stating:
"I have an opening at 11:30 or after 5."

9:42am Michelle's immediate reply message stated:
"11:30 works if it is ok"

immediately after 9:42am Lauren's reply text message stated:*
"Yes your hair is short so it won't take long."

immediately after Michelle sent her sister, Lauren 2 text messages back to back.. First text stated:
"Sweet!!! !!!!"
and the one that immediately followed stated:
":heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:"(5 red heart icons in a row)

10:20am is the last text shown between sisters. It was sent from Michelle to Lauren and it stated:
"Ok, going <insert "shoe" icons> shopping with mom. I'll come by n grab it & do it"
**note we have no way for certain to know what she was referencing In this last msg.. It was not sent in reply to a text from Lauren and was sent a little over 40mins after Michelle's last text which was the 5 hearts..**
**time and text verified by Lauren's cell phone**
[MSM, Lauren]

11:30am this was the time that the sisters had agreed upon for Michelle to be at the salon for her to get her keratin conditioning treatment..
[MSM, Lauren]

2:30pm Michelle is seen for the last time by her family(mom/sis) as she is leaving the family's salon en route to p/u twins from daycare and to drop them off at their dad's(Dale) condo
[MSM, family]

3:15pm Michelle's current bf of a few weeks, NM receives a text msg from Michelle that said she'd heard a song on the radio that made her think of him.
(per some MSM this text was sent "after" she'd dropped off the twins at Dale's.. To each their own on what they feel is accurate)..
NM immediately replies to her text with a smiley and a heart.
[MSM, NM]

3:18pm ORIGINAL ARRIVAL TIME OF MICHELLE AT DALE's. Surveillance video shows Michelle's blk Hummer(sister, Lauren confirmed it was Michelle's Hummer)arriving at Dale's condo. The 3:18pm timestamp has been verified as correct(only "off" 2seconds) by the very man whose surveillance cam caught the Hummer footage.
**also note that 3:18pm marks the BEGINNING of the 72min window of op later given by Dale JR's ATTY, NeJame**
[MSM, video confirmation, sister, MN]

3:28pm This would mark the 10mins of Michelle staying and talking with Dale at his condo where she says she is then headed to go shopping.. The time Michelle would be leaving Dale's condo.
[sister]

3:30pm This is the time reported by multiple MSM as the time Michelle's 11yr old son had arrived home from school and at some point very soon thereafter called the family salon asking if his mom was there.
[MSM]

4:00pm THIS IS THE NEW ARRIVAL TIME OF MICHELLE AT DALE's CONDO per sister, Lauren on 11/30 PrimeTime News. She claims that the time on the video of 3:18pm is INCORRECT.. that the correct time of Michelle/twins arriving at Dale's was 4:00pm.. Lauren further claims that in Dale's initial convo with the family on 11/17 when they asked him when he'd last seen Michelle that he answered that she'd arrived at 4:00pm, stayed and talked for 10mins, and upon her leaving she told Dale she was headed "shopping".
**please note that I am making clear that this time and info is not told to the public by Dale Jr, himself, but rather it is Michelle's sister, Lauren publicly stating these are the events/times of 11/17 as the family was told by Dale Jr in their first contacting him on the night of 11/17**
[family, MSM]

Minutes preceding 4:26pm Michelle's brother, Dustin sends a 3 recipient text(mom, Lauren, Michelle) needing a ride and asking what part of town each are in.
[brother, MSM]

4:26pm the time immediately after Dustin sending the text he received only 1 reply from the 3 texts he'd sent. It was a reply from Michelle's cell phone that consisted of one, single word, "Waterford". This is the last known contact with Michelle's phone.
*note that according to MSM not only was the location of the phone not in Waterford when the 4:26pm text was sent, but it's reported that the phones records show the phone to not have been in Waterford at any time that day/night of 11/17**
[brother, MSM]

4:26:16pm *Or 16:25:16 as seen as the timestamp on lower left. Screen cap shows the white panel van (that the neighbor said is not Dale Smith's, but which cannot be determined for certain by me-per Tony Pipitone) pulls into camera range before apparently doing a u-turn and parking in front of the building 15 seconds later.[much thanks to Tony Pipitone for this info]
**also of interest is that we see the neighbor with the cams is home by this point..IOW tightening the time in which the Hummer left/was concealed from Dale's condo**
[Tony Pipitone]

4:30pm Dale's atty, Mark NeJame states that Dale and the twins arrived at his father, Dale Sr's home at this time. Thus marking the END of the 72minute window of opportunity that NeJame claims Dale Jr had to kill and dispose of Michelle..
**note that he gets a :big eyeroll: from me on this claim**
[MN, MSM]

4:40pm This is the timestamp we see on the video surveillance footage that shows a similar black hummer leaving Dale's neighborhood.
**confirmed it was NOT Michelle's Hummer and confirmed it was a neighbor that lives near Dale that we saw appearing to leave the neighborhood at 4:40pm**
[video confirmation, MSM]

5:17pm Or as is seen on the video timestamp 17:17=5:17pm.. This is another screen capture of footage from Dale Jr's neighbor's surveillance cam.. It is still up for debate exactly what is seen in this particular screen cap, but for certain we know the white van is present.. Alongside the white van and slightly further there is a dark colored SUV headed in the opposite direction of where Michelle's Hummer is seen headed at 3:18pm(ie. Away from Jr's condo).. We have no confirmation on whose vehicle it is, or even what type SUV that it is for certain.. For now there are varying differences in opinion and whether or not it is even related or relevant to Michelle's disappearance.
[MSM, video confirmation]

5:31pm This is the official time that the sun set in Orlando, it's suburbs and surrounding areas.

6:50pm This time is the newest time stated by sister, Lauren as to when Michelle's 11yr old son called the family salon speaking with his Aunt Lauren. He asks if mom is there.. and relays that mom has not been home and he has not seen her.
[sister, MSM]

6:50pm After speaking with Michelle's 11yr old son the family immediately calls "The Barn"(the bar Michelle was to work a shift at 7:30pm that night of 11/17). The co-workers assure the fam that they'll alert them as soon as Michelle arrives for work..*
**Michelle is known to be a very prompt employee and always would arrive 10-15mins prior to her shift beginning**
[sister, MSM]

6:53pm Sister, Lauren sends a text to Michelle's phone saying for Michelle to call her ASAP..
[MSM, family]

7:20pm When Michelle had not arrived for work by 7:20 co-workers grew extremely concerned and immediately alerted her family that Michelle was a NO SHOW.
[family, MSM]

7:20pm AT THIS TIME THE FAMILY IMMEDIATELY ALERTED AUTHORITIES THAT MICHELLE WAS MISSING
[family, MSM]

Throughout those first hours Michelle's family were desperately seeking to make contact with Dale Jr.(calls placed to his cell by mom, Dustin, Lauren all went unanswered). Yvonne at some point was able to make contact with Dale Jr's mom at Dale Sr's house.. She shared her growing concerns of Michelle being missing but for reasons unbeknownst to us Yvonne was unable to speak with Dale Jr at that time. His mom assured Yvonne that she would have Dale Jr contact her.
[family]

7:30pm Michelle's shift was to begin at 7:30pm at "The Barn". As we know she never arrived.
[family, MSM]

8:00pm-ish Its been reported that after the family had contacted authorities to report Michelle missing that the family requested LE to go to Dale Jr's(*assume that's due to the last place they knew Michelle was headed to take the twins*).. Reportedly it was at/around 8pm LE did a "drive-by" of Dale Jr's condo and there was no sign of Michelle or her Hummer.

8:00pm This is the time that Michelle's phone was powered down for the last time in the Oakridge area.(have also seen this time reported as 8:01 and 8:08pm but am going by the timeline released 12/5 on Today Show)
**due to this being the last known area of Michelle's phone the family set up the original search central at Jesse Black's parking lot**
[MSM, family]

Specific time unknown Dale Jr returns the phonecall to Yvonne. The family asks him when was the last time that he saw Michelle. His response was that Michelle/twins arrived at his condo at 4:00pm, Michelle stayed and they talked for 10mins, upon Michelle leaving his condo she told him that she was headed to go "shopping". That was the last time that he had seen Michelle.
According to the family Dale had no reaction when told that Michelle was MISSING!
[family]

10:30pm This is the time that a woman and her dog were walking in the apt complex on Walden Circle and saw Michelle's black Hummer parked there at the complex.
**note this was learned after LE located the Hummer and in speaking to the apt tenants in that area they learned that the woman had spotted the vehicle in that spot at 10:30pm**
[MSM]

11:08pm This was the time that Dale Jr took to his facebook to speak out about Michelle MISSING and that he and his home were already being looked into by LE(as is SOP). Below is his IMO troubling post(he refuses to call her by name, but rather de-personalizes her by speaking of her as "his kid's mother")
"Oh man, oh man, (expletive)! Michelle, the mother of my kids is missing, her mother called me said she never showed up to work after dropping the kids off with me. The police just came by and searched my whole house, this isn't good. My kids need their mother,"
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,2731530.story
[MSM, Dale's FB post]

12:00am-ish LE officer during routine patrol of the apt complex spots and calls in for verification what was found to be Michelle's Missing Black Hummer. It's location verified to have been the exact same as when the female at 10:30pm had spotted the black Hummer.
**note that the large, professionally attached GLOW tanning decals had been removed from Michelle's windows**
(it can be seen on the surveillance footage of Michelle's Hummer arriving at Dale's condo that at that time[3:18pm] the GLOW decals were still on her vehicle)
[family, MSM, LE]

**Bumping Updated timeline with couple new times/events**

:heart: Smooth
 
I agree there are arguments around the kids paradox, but it doesn't dismiss the fact he still had the children to deal with. Plus time constraints put a real problem on DS Jr having done this. Anyone who's just murdered their ex-fiance now knows they must dispose of the body, ditch the vehicle and phone plus get back home before the law comes knocking on the door... Obviously anyone committing such an act knows he can't keep the body any where close to his home or any place connected to his family.

Those of you have paid close attention know I've not said DS Jr is innocent. He should be on the radar he had motive but it takes more than motive. I'm just saying I'm not going to rush to judgment as he might not have had anything to do with MP disappearance. There is other possibilities and to ignore them would be reckless.

As for DS Jr behavior about not wanting to take a lie detector. That means nothing to me I wouldn't take one either regardless if I was only being asked if the sky was blue. Just refusing to take a lie detector is enough for many people to already assume a person must be guilty of something. Actually taking one and passing only invokes suspicion that the person was crafty enough to get a positive result. That's a far cry from being thought of as innocent.

If Mp was headed home after dropping off the kids then it's only reasonable she would have taken the quickest route home. If this be the case then she would have driven east along Lee Vista Blvd to catch the 417 north. What's to keep her from being abducted along that route? Maybe some punks saw a nice Hummer with an attractive frail female they thought was easy pickings?

would these guys send that text to her brother saying Waterford? Or was that Michelle who did that?

If it was Michelle, then why didn't she call her 11 yr old who was home alone to tell him she was running late. Her sister said they always spoke around 3:45 when he came home alone from school. If I am going to believe that she jiust went on her way and was going shopping in Waterford, then I don't understand why she never called her 11 yr old, whom she knew was home alone, to tell him.

So let's say the young punks got her Hummer. How did they do that in broad daylight in such a busy area? And she is not that frail looking. She is pretty fit.

But if they did get her hummer, then why would they go to that little bridge to dump her cell phone? They never even took her purse, or even took the Hummer to a chop shop. So what was the point? If it was all about killing a woman, usually random abductors kill and dump. I think she would have been found already alongside the road.

It just seems odd to me that she would be randomly abducted in broad daylight in a busy area just moments after leaving her ex's house. Bad luck for him, eh?
 
We all have our opinions and that is perfectly fine. What I find really surprising is that many of you seem to want Dale to be guilty, why I don't know. Maybe because of his checkered past many feel that this would be pay back somehow who knows. Let me ask everyone here a question. What if your Mother went missing? Would you rather it be a stranger that killed her or your Father? I personally hope to God and pray that Dale is innocent and I do this for the children. Think about it this way, years from now when all the dust settles and we have forgotten about Michelle, her two children will be living with one of two truths. One may be that their Mother was killed by a stranger or the other that their Father killed their Mother. Which one would you wish one these kids? Yeah we don't like Dale, but maybe Dale will turn out to be a good parent if he is innocent and at least the children will still have a parent.

I know plenty of LE people and I can tell you that if they need a warrent to check a house they are going to get it one way or another. I personally am glad that they searched since you never know, but don't assume that just because they got a warrent that they have all kinds of great evidence. It could have been nothing more than an anonymous tip.

Another thing to consider is this. If I was the one who took Michelle and a few days later saw that her ex BF was prime suspect I would be jumping for joy. If I had her phone I may just plant it somewhere. Heck I might even buy a disposable cell phone and make a call to LE and let them know where "Dale" hide the body and I'm sure I can say a few other incriminating comments to seal the deal. What if Michelle was or is still alive (not saying she is dead) when LE announced Dale as PS? Wouldn't this give some sicko out there free reign to do whatever he wanted to her and then kill her knowing her could just dispose of her near Dale's house or his parents. By now this guy would def know where they are all located!

Some of you are criticising Dale for not working. Would any of you want to even step foot out the door knowing that you are one of America's most hated men!!!!! Maybe we will get lucky and someone will shoot the guy for doing such a terrible thing and hopefully he is guilty right or else two innocent people may now be dead.

It's not that I personally "want" Dale to be guilty. My grandmother has been missing since 1993, never found. We are all pretty sure my grandfather (they were divorced not long before) killed her and disposed of her. He has never been charged, although he was a "person of interest" for a long time. Of course they didn't have all the technology they have now. All they had to go on were some hairs and blood in a room of their house that stayed locked and he was the only one that had the key (he no longer lived in the house and there was a battle over that). Of course I don't WANT to know that he is guilty, but that's what my gut and common sense tells me. Anyhow sorry to get off topic, but that's how I feel about Dale. Not that I WANT him to be guilty, but that's just what my gut and common sense tells me. Sure other scenarios are possible, I just don't think they're likely.
 
I will say for the record that I think that LE has zero obligation to let us know anything about this case. The only problem I have is that they fell like they are obligated to name a suspect and then not follow thru with an arrest. The longer it goes on with out one the more it will seem that they have made a mistake and jumped to conclusions.

What are people's opinions about how long LE should wait until they arrest Dale?

No opinion. Personally, if Michelle has met any harm, I would hope that she is found first and foremost. The victim, assuming she is no longer with us, and bringing her home to her family is priority number one.

As I don't personally see him as a victim, and as he is not in police custody, the police have time to cross all of their t's and dot all of their i's. The length of time doesn't matter to me.

The only way that the length of time would MATTER is if he was no longer their prime suspect and someone else was. At that point, the cops would have egg on their faces.

But the later (the last two sentences above) is not a scenario that I can see happening. Not with all of my gut screaming the obvious. He is the prime suspect for a reason. And the OCSD (LE) are not keystone cops. they are some of the finest police I have ever seen. the most ludicrous scenario I have seen is that he was framed. Or that her family is involved in harming her. Or that she ran off to get some rays. Or that it is a hoax...

But the whole Michelle dropped off her twins to her DOCUMENTEDLY violent ex and is never heard from again because he killed her...is the least plausible scenario? Nope. It is the most likely explanation. But it doesn't make him guilty. But the above scenarios don't actually help him at all either. Her family is not credible? But his is?

It took LE 10 days after she went missing to name him the primary suspect. My best guess is that they feel confident her body :( will be found very soon and at that point they will throw him in the slammer.

But like I mentioned, it is all a mute point if Michelle is not found and returned to her family. :(
 
So if Dale killed Michelle at his condo.

Where were the kids?
How did he get her body out of the house and into her Hummer?
Did he carry her on his own?
Did he wrap her up to disguise her?
Did anyone see him?
Where were the kids when he did this?
Did he take the kids with him when he had her body in the Hummer?
How did he kill her?
How did he get back to his house?

Just thinking out loud don't really expect any answers.
 
It's not that I personally "want" Dale to be guilty. My grandmother has been missing since 1993, never found. We are all pretty sure my grandfather (they were divorced not long before) killed her and disposed of her. He has never been charged, although he was a "person of interest" for a long time. Of course they didn't have all the technology they have now. All they had to go on were some hairs and blood in a room of their house that stayed locked and he was the only one that had the key (he no longer lived in the house and there was a battle over that). Of course I don't WANT to know that he is guilty, but that's what my gut and common sense tells me. Anyhow sorry to get off topic, but that's how I feel about Dale. Not that I WANT him to be guilty, but that's just what my gut and common sense tells me. Sure other scenarios are possible, I just don't think their likely.

Wow, sorry to hear that. Is your GF still alive? Has he ever admitted to anything? LIke I said before even when some people are tried and found guilty they will never come clean.
 
For what it's worth, there IS a difference between suspect and perpetrator (or defendant if you will). Some cases have multiple suspects. Should they all be arrested immediately so as not to give the impression they don't have evidence? No. Dale is a suspect, their prime suspect. Suspect does not mean perpetrator or defendant. I believe the great folks on this site have indeed looked at other suspects but they have been slowly dismissed for good reason. Dale is still in the running for good reason. I honestly don't care at this point about who it was. I really want her found. The rest can be dealt with later. I believe that LE has that same focus although part of their peripheral focus is gathering evidence & clues to make that happen. If someone will give me just ONE single reason that proves he did not do anything, I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I just don't see a darn thing anywhere that even slightly disqualifies him so he is fair game for sleuthing & suspicion. IMO of course.
And PS teh-the vicks thing does work plus it'll make your tootsies super soft.
 
So if Dale killed Michelle at his condo.

Where were the kids?
How did he get her body out of the house and into her Hummer?
Did he carry her on his own?
Did he wrap her up to disguise her?
Did anyone see him?
Where were the kids when he did this?
Did he take the kids with him when he had her body in the Hummer?
How did he kill her?
How did he get back to his house?

Just thinking out loud don't really expect any answers.

She might have never made it out of the vehicle. Kids in there the whole time. Her body is shoved out of the drivers' side and onto the passenger floor or something until she could be disposed of. There are all kinds of ways this could have happened with the kids present and in broad daylight. Parents have been killed in front of their children before.
 
parker_map.jpg

Folks, I cut and pasted 3 maps together to show sites where phone and Humer found along with houses, etc.
 
I have a question: On the map, the location of the hair salon is marked as located on the east side of Oviedo. Is this roughly accurate? I know that we're not supposed to post the name or address, but I'd like to know if the map indicates the approximate location, and that the salon isn't, in fact, more to the west.

Thanks anyone who can help!
Appears to be North East of Oviedo using the salon address on Google Map
 
We don't know what LE has or doesn't have, so I don't know that there is a valid argument either way. I would think that if they don't investigate every possible lead, even if it does or doesn't point the the Dales, then they wouldn't be doing their job.

I may have missed alternate possible leads since I have not read all of these threads. One I have read was, "Maybe some punks saw a nice Hummer with an attractive frail female they thought was easy pickings."

Wouldn't there need to be more evidence pointing towards this scenario for the LE to follow up?
(i.e. fingerprints, dust/dirt from shoes, evidence of skirmish in the Hummer?
Wouldn't the "punks" want to keep the Hummer a longer distance than miles in double digits, etc.)
 
So if Dale killed Michelle at his condo.

Where were the kids?
How did he get her body out of the house and into her Hummer?
Did he carry her on his own?
Did he wrap her up to disguise her?
Did anyone see him?
Where were the kids when he did this?
Did he take the kids with him when he had her body in the Hummer?
How did he kill her?
How did he get back to his house?

Just thinking out loud don't really expect any answers.

This explained a plausible scenario to me:
http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/12/09/michelle-parker-case-when-did-the-crime-occur/

I think he's a s guilty as OJ. Now it's time to find Michelle and prove it. No other scenarios (other than Dale being involved) remotely make any sense.
 
Keep in mind that just because a body is found it will not necessarily prove someone is now guilty. A lot of people on here will think that once they find Michelle then Dale will immediately jailed. Not unless finding her affords them a damning piece of evidence that points directly to Dale and this will not be finding her near his Dad's home.
 
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