CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 9

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Oriah said:
BBM: This is why I go back to laundering. Because of the sustaining of all of this. And is it possible that we are missing yet another 'recipient' of Mr. Harrod's money??
Maybe we should try and get the IRS to take a really close look?

Of course none of that helps to locate Mr. Harrod- but I had a thought about that also.

Regarding possible locations of Mr. Harrod... The SD card(s) in phones would contain GPS info. Who was where, when- that sort of thing. They often get replaced into new phones by the phone provider when trying to save info such as contacts, etc. Those providers use computers to do this, usually at a store, and that info is retained on their system.
How can we access that??
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Unless they have bat phones, right? :)
 
Cubby said:
I don't know that AH came up with 20%. It's possible he obtained 100% financing with an 80/20 loan. If that's the case the 20% second mortgage may satisfy the 20% down requirement.

I haven't found any online mortgage underwriting guidelines for the specific mortgage co which AH obtained his financing. I did see this same company is hiring a mortgage underwriter very near my residence, making it easier to get information to them regarding the possible mortgage fraud in this case.


For myself, the X factors are the entire loan package submitted to underwriting and if it contains fraudulant information as described below, used to fund or insure the loan. This is an avenue the mortgage company may wish to pursue, or it is an avenue LE may wish to explore.

Mortgage Fraud is defined as a material misstatement, misrepresentation, or omission relied upon by an underwriter or lender to fund, purchase, or insure a loan.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/pre...ion-quick-flip
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Does fraud trigger the loan to come due?
 
believe09 said:
Does fraud trigger the loan to come due?
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IDK. I don't know what the repercussions are for loan fraud. Could be prison time for all I know.

I don't necessarily need to know the answers with regards to what is actually in the file. Assurance that the mortgage company and LE have the information regarding possible fraud is sufficient to me. It's then up to the each of them to do with the information what they wish.
 
believe09 said:
Unless they have bat phones, right? :)
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Well yeah there's that.
But... in addition to the computer(s), most cell phone provider stores also have phones that they use to transfer data, check data, and for display- that they turn over- including the SD cards, which are often 'recycled.' I'm on it. :)
Why didn't I think of this earlier????
 
believe09 said:
Getting back to Andrew's name change-did anyone ever find any name change paperwork? It has to be out there. IIRC, JeM changed his name at well. There is a history in the family of jettisoning given surnames I guess.
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Wow. What a bunch.
 
Oriah said:
It seems to me that's a good possibility. I am wondering just how many loans have been 'co-signed' on. Do we have the actual documentation for the name change(s)?

Also, since I am on the vehicle kick this weekend- AH's vehicles at the time-do we have the registration, insurance and ownership info for them? A simple yes or no will suffice. :)
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I haven't been able to find a court record of the name change (in LA or OC County).

===

This section gives you information on legally changing your name by getting a court order. In California, you also have the legal right to change your name by the “usage method.” This means you change your name by simply using a new name in all aspects of your life. This rule usually does not apply to minors and prison inmates.

BUT most government agencies currently require a court order as official proof of a name change. Government regulations to fight against fraud, like identity theft, are making it almost impossible to change your name without a court order.

Basics
There are several ways to change your name:

· Filing a Petition for a Change of Name. This is the most common way. The How-to Guide in this section shows you how to do this.
· If you are getting divorced and want to change your name to your maiden name, you can usually do that in your divorce case. Click here for what to do.
· If you are already divorced (in California only) and did not change your name in your divorce, but want to do it now, click here.
· If you recently got married and want to change your last name to your spouse's last name, you may not have to go to court. Go to your local DMV office and your social security office, and ask them whether you can change the name on your driver's license and social security card to your spouse's last name without a court order. Sometimes, they will change your name if you show them your marriage license or certificate and you will not have to go to court. But it is possible they will tell you to get a court order, so be prepared for that.

http://courts.ca.gov/1051.htm
 
Another couple of nuggets-



Quitclaim Deeds Quitclaim deeds are used to convey any interest that the grantor might possess in the property. The grantor might be a legal owner or the grantor might never have formally been identified on a deed describing the property.
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I also found this one-
Deed-in-lieu of Foreclosure. Sellers who are behind in payments to the lender will sometimes negotiate with a lender to accept a Deed-in-Lieu of Foreclosure, which means the seller has deeded the property to the lender to avoid foreclosure. But the deed may still show up on a seller's credit report.
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Andrew discusses in his deposition some of the attempts at collection of his mortgage payments. Indu states in her request to seal the secret agreement that the deal was an attempt to forestall a lengthy expensive pursuit of eviction and foreclosure. On paper, to me anyway, it looks like they simply decided to stamp the debt cancelled. And there was nothing punitive to Andrew-since there doesnt appear to be a deed in lieu of Foreclosure....I have to go back to Bob's wishes and his interests being maintained. I know it is water under the bridge, although it is likely at some point that the secret agreement will be made public unless Indu succeeds with the "we dont want people who are interested in this case to have access to that document" argument in September.

I dont know, guys. This may be a game changer in some way for me. If we take in context the statements AH made during the well being check which pointed the finger at his family, the calls to Mr Algorri he confessed to in his deposition, and walking away from a three quarter of a million dollar debt to turn around and buy a 719K house....well I dont know.
 
This is O/T, but I just wanted to say thank you to everyone working on Mr. Harrod's case here- you guys have done an amazing job, and IMO this thread is one of most devoted and pure on WS's. :)

I'm actually glad I got dragged into it (which is not usually the case!) Ya'll make me proud to be a part of Bob's 'family' here on WS's.

Ok, back to work!

believe09, I thought I understood the deposition but I am still thoroughly confused as to how and why the judge let this fly???
 
Oriah said:
This is O/T, but I just wanted to say thank you to everyone working on Mr. Harrod's case here- you guys have done an amazing job, and IMO this thread is one of most devoted and pure on WS's. :)

I'm actually glad I got dragged into it (which is not usually the case!) Ya'll make me proud to be a part of Bob's 'family' here on WS's.

Ok, back to work!

believe09, I thought I understood the deposition but I am still thoroughly confused as to how and why the judge let this fly???
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Well, the judge was pinch hitting and never read the pre trial statements. My impression was that he didnt want to mess with another judge's case and "why couldnt we all just get along?" I mean, a sealed doc that doesnt pertain to a juvenile case or some kind of proprietary information-well we can see how quickly the judge on July 25 shot that down. The judge on July 25 specifically stated that there needed to be CA Law cited in a new motion filed by the co conservators. And that it had to be a motion, not a petition. Which I think we saw in March or April, IIRC, when the original request for rent was made. That one was supposed to be a motion, not a petition. Ah well, we have seen that on both sides....I can imagine it is all very confusing. But at the fees the co conservators are being billed, well I hope that they have been receiving refunds.

I agree that everyone here has shown a tremendous amount of heart-I think it is safe to say that those actively following this case across the www would love to see some resolution and some justice. :grouphug:
 
believe09 said:
Well, the judge was pinch hitting and never read the pre trial statements. My impression was that he didnt want to mess with another judge's case and "why couldnt we all just get along?" I mean, a sealed doc that doesnt pertain to a juvenile case or some kind of proprietary information-well we can see how quickly the judge on July 25 shot that down. The judge on July 25 specifically stated that there needed to be CA Law cited in a new motion filed by the co conservators. And that it had to be a motion, not a petition. Which I think we saw in March or April, IIRC, when the original request for rent was made. That one was supposed to be a motion, not a petition. Ah well, we have seen that on both sides....I can imagine it is all very confusing. But at the fees the co conservators are being billed, well I hope that they have been receiving refunds.

I agree that everyone here has shown a tremendous amount of heart-I think it is safe to say that those actively following this case across the www would love to see some resolution and some justice. :grouphug:
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I am so glad I am not an attorney. Or a judge. Dogs are so much easier than humans, lol.
 
I am still confused as to why Bob's assets arent essentially frozen until he returns or is declared dead, or both.
 
Question:
Does anyone know if Mr. Harrod's mail was collected on the 27th or 28th?
 
believe09 said:
I am still confused as to why Bob's assets arent essentially frozen until he returns or is declared dead, or both.
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Me either. I asked my attorney about this, and he said he thought it's either one of two problems. Falling through the cracks- or weeds pushing up through the cracks. (Yeah, he's a hoot.)
 
Oriah said:
Question:
Does anyone know if Mr. Harrod's mail was collected on the 27th or 28th?
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Good question but I'm not sure. I'd like to know whether the mailman/woman was questioned to find out what time they delivered/collected mail and if they saw anything on Monday, July 27th.

Daughter RB posted (below) that UPS delivered boxes to Bob's house that Fontelle had shipped from MO. I'd like to know whether the UPS driver was questioned (whether that person delivered anything on Monday, July 27th, what time, and what they saw). RB says that when Bob was not at home, some boxes were delivered to the front porch. Was that on Monday/Tuesday when Bob went/was missing? Fontelle went back to MO on July 7 and returned to Placentia on Wednesday, July 29.
Fontelle shipped 22 separate medium sized boxes of her belongings from MO via UPS. As far as I know, they were all delivered to the house before she arrived, and when Dad was at home he had the driver put them inside the garage. When not at home, some were delivered to the front porch. None of the boxes were opened until after Fontelle arrived.
​
 
cloudajo said:
Good question but I'm not sure. I'd like to know whether the mailman/woman was questioned to find out what time they delivered/collected mail and if they saw anything on Monday, July 27th.

Daughter RB posted (below) that UPS delivered boxes to Bob's house that Fontelle had shipped from MO. I'd like to know whether the UPS driver was questioned (whether that person delivered anything on Monday, July 27th, what time, and what they saw). RB says that when Bob was not at home, some boxes were delivered to the front porch. Was that on Monday/Tuesday when Bob went/was missing? Fontelle went back to MO on July 7 and returned to Placentia on Wednesday, July 29.
Fontelle shipped 22 separate medium sized boxes of her belongings from MO via UPS. As far as I know, they were all delivered to the house before she arrived, and when Dad was at home he had the driver put them inside the garage. When not at home, some were delivered to the front porch. None of the boxes were opened until after Fontelle arrived.
​
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Thanks cloudajo. I was having flashbacks to a case we worked (FL) that has some eerie similarities to Mr. Harrods, but the mail factor- and deliveries etc- really useful in that case. Actually, case breaking if you know what I mean.
 
Fontelle shipped 22 separate medium sized boxes of her belongings from MO via UPS. As far as I know, they were all delivered to the house before she arrived, and when Dad was at home he had the driver put them inside the garage. When not at home, some were delivered to the front porch. None of the boxes were opened until after Fontelle arrived.
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BBM-what a curious statement. I wonder if Mrs Harrod concurs.
 
We have a few insiders-lets see if we can draw them back by answering the mail question. Really anyone in the neighborhood would be able to confirm when the postperson usually dropped off the mail.

I wonder what time those packages were delivered? If it was 11AM or 12PM...that would be a game changer for sure.
 
Sorry to digress, but imo all of the real estate activity just makes me think that there could be some complicated leverage issues. I wonder who is underwriting what, and why? The numbers don't make sense to me, but this is all just imo, I'm a layperson here.
 
believe09 said:
We have a few insiders-lets see if we can draw them back by answering the mail question. Really anyone in the neighborhood would be able to confirm when the postperson usually dropped off the mail.

I wonder what time those packages were delivered? If it was 11AM or 12PM...that would be a game changer for sure.
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Delivery confirmations exist, like, forever in the UPS system. (Sometimes it takes a little time to track down the records, but them handheld devices that you sign to receive packages? treasure trove of info.)
And with so much transfer of electronic data these days... I think we can figure this out.

I wanna talk to the UPS delivery person on Mr. Harrod's route at the time.
Hmmm.
 
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