GUILTY OH - Two women & child killed, 13yo abducted, Apple Valley, 10 Nov 2010 #4

Hmmm.....according to our members that were watching JVM and posting on the tail-end of thread #3....LE didn't "think" anyone else was involved besides MH. Assuming that's accurate....I again say, how did this lone perp manage vehicles and transport of 4 people & a dog alone? Have y'all posted theories on this already and I missed it a thousand posts back?

I continue to stare at this map one of our members "pinned" for us (sorry I've lost track of who to give credit to) and the distance between the 3 primary crime scenes we know of so far don't appear to logically have been walked between at any point....especially during the commission of a crime like we're following here. I think a vehicle(s) was used.

The perps vehicle was at his home and was impounded. One victim's vehicle was removed from her residence and abandoned...another victim's vehicle was found at that same residence.

How was this pulled off by one perp :waitasec:.

All of the victims were somehow, at some point, removed from the Apple Valley residence. My opinion is that they were all removed at the same time. I can't imagine the perp(s) would be running back and forth periodically removing the victims.....seems like it would raise the risk factor a great deal. Plus, it seems there may be a fairly tight time line established as to when the kids would have arrived home from school, when TH would have normally showed up at work, when a "wellness check" was requested at the residence, etc.

I'm also wondering if TH's fiance had met, or knew of, MH? They're all about in the same age range right? Had MH visited in the past before the break up? Maybe stopped by for a BBQ or to have a few beers?

Here is some info from Matthew Hoffman's mother:

Matthew Hoffman's mother spoke to 10TV's Jeff Hogan on Monday afternoon and said that since her son was arrested on Sunday morning, it has been an emotional time.​

Hoffman's mother said her son occasionally had mail sent to her address but he has not lived at her home in two years.​

She described her son as a "loner" and that she last saw him on Nov. 7, four days before investigators believe he abducted Maynard​

http://www.10tv.com/live/content/lo...on-kidnapping-suspect-background.html?sid=102​

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Leila said:

:Welcome-12-june: to Websleuths Sun Girl!

Yes, most states require that the person on parole keep appts. with their parole officer, are required to keep a job, and to make payments on whatever fine the court imposed. The parole officers also make home visits on occasion.

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Here are the answers:

While on parole, Hoffman was ordered to make payments for the $2 million in damage to the condos, but records showed he only paid about $5,000.​

State records showed Hoffman was on parole supervision until October, Aker reported.​

http://www.10tv.com/live/content/lo...on-kidnapping-suspect-background.html?sid=102​

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Leila said:

:Welcome-12-june: to Websleuths Sun Girl!

Yes, most states require that the person on parole keep appts. with their parole officer, are required to keep a job, and to make payments on whatever fine the court imposed. The parole officers also make home visits on occasion.

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Thank you for the welcome! It just seems odd that the suspect was able to purchase a 5-bedroom house and pay the mortgage by himself. Some news said he worked as a tree trimmer and today it was mentioned that he is not currently employed. Did he have room mates ever (besides the woman (gf?) who supposedly stayed with him for a few weeks, month?), and if he was working, wouldn't at least some of the neighbors have seem him leave in the mornings, with tools, and possibly come home in the evenings?

belimom said:

Something else I was trying to figure out - to read between the lines, maybe: the sheriff faltered a little when asked how MH was able to get them to leave the house (or something along those lines). He said something about 'not of their own volition' at one point (I think) but then another time I swear he paused, thought for a moment, and then said something to the effect that not all four of them left the house 'under their own power'. To me, the word 'power' and 'volition' could possibly mean different things. With using the world 'volition', I think more of being coerced/forced. But using the word 'power' makes me think that not all of them walked out of the house. I wonder if there are any smear/drag marks with the blood...

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Thanks for mentioning this. The sheriff did use the words "volition" and "power", and I did note that he was struggling for the right words. I think LE may not know with certainty what happened beyond what Sarah could tell them. I'm sure she was able to tell LE what happened up until the point at which she was separated from the others. If she witnessed whatever happened to cause all the blood in the house, LE could make a reasonable conclusion about what might have happened.

I suspect that poor Sarah may be so traumatized by what happened to her, she may have been able to tell them in general what happened, but some of the details may be lost due to fear. Those details will probably come back to her once this is behind her for a while. She needs to recover from her ordeal. I hope she's getting counseling.

cluciano63 said:

Does Sarah's brother come home from school first, I wonder, or do they come together on the same bus? Or does one come home sooner than the other?

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Kody is 11, so he's probably in 6th grade and Sarah is 13 so she's probably in 8th grade - junior high. So they may go to different schools and have different busses.

Edited to add that Belimom found the accurate information in one of the news articles, so cancel my post above. Here's the correct info:

Sarah Maynard is a seventh-grader at East Knox Middle School, where her brother is in the fifth grade, school officials said. The children were at school Wednesday.

nervous_nellie said:

mh's parents own the homes in ohio...

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I thought I read that mh got a loan for the house, but maybe he did not have to pay an entire house payment, only rent. That would explain why he didn't have to work everyday, and if he got off parole in October he could finally do more of whatever he wanted to do. The neighborhood where his house is supposedly has a few bars within a few blocks, wonder if mh has ever been seen in them, especially if he is more of a night owl, that could explain why neighbors said they didn't see him coming and going a lot. And the loner part is even more creepy, I don't get a good feeling about how this will end! I believe it was Mikeysmommom who said in one of the other threads something about mh having dead eyes - I agree - when I first saw the mugshot, I thought the same thing - I see empty, dead eyes, but there is some kind of rage behind them too - imho.

Welcome to WS.....great posts!!!

I've been wondering if the break-up with the gf triggered this kidnapping (and Lord knows what else). fran had posted a few links on the last thread and, I haven't had a chance to find them again yet, but the article stated the gf had a child. Wondering if he was possibly the father of the child???

You mentioned any other roommates besides the gf.....I'm wondering if, since he spent some time in prison, he had strong attachments to someone he served time with that may have been released recently and possibly he offered that person an invitation to "stay" with him? I realize that's going way out "on that limb" but you never know now days.

SunGirl said:

Thank you for the welcome! It just seems odd that the suspect was able to purchase a 5-bedroom house and pay the mortgage by himself. Some news said he worked as a tree trimmer and today it was mentioned that he is not currently employed. Did he have room mates ever (besides the woman (gf?) who supposedly stayed with him for a few weeks, month?), and if he was working, wouldn't at least some of the neighbors have seem him leave in the mornings, with tools, and possibly come home in the evenings?

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This may be old news...but,

Getting back to addresses...
He provided two addresses: Columbus Ave. Where Sarah was found, and his parents address 3730 Apple Valley Rd. In studying the Knox County Auditor website, this address is listed to a "non Hoffman." Different last name. Obviously, this could be his mom who is remarried, but...

Herrmann lives at 481 King Beach, and...
down the street at 589 King Beach lives another Hoffman...maybe another relative? Maybe not.

Do we know names of his parents?

I think he was stalking Sarah for a long time, softball, other school activities, etc. Wasn't he was known to roam around town? The previous break in that was not reported would have been an ideal time for him to check out the house. If he tied them up, gagged them, had them in different areas of the house, took them off one at a time he could have done it alone. He had all night to take them one at a time or to take them as a group early in the AM. I think he may have taken Sarah first to his house, tied her up and left her there while he dealt with the other ones. I think Stephanie just stumbled into this tragedy.

Heatherly30 said:

This may be old news...but,

Getting back to addresses...
He provided two addresses: Columbus Ave. Where Sarah was found, and his parents address 3730 Apple Valley Rd. In studying the Knox County Auditor website, this address is listed to a "non Hoffman." Different last name. Obviously, this could be his mom who is remarried, but...

Herrmann lives at 481 King Beach, and...
down the street at 589 King Beach lives another Hoffman...maybe another relative? Maybe not.

Do we know names of his parents?

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The home on Apple Valley is owned by his mother and stepfather. See http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40193670/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts

sassy_texasbelle2 said:

I think he was stalking Sarah for a long time, softball, other school activities, etc. Wasn't he was known to roam around town? The previous break in that was not reported would have been an ideal time for him to check out the house. If he tied them up, gagged them, had them in different areas of the house, took them off one at a time he could have done it alone. He had all night to take them one at a time or to take them as a group early in the AM. I think he may have taken Sarah first to his house, tied her up and left her there while he dealt with the other ones. I think Stephanie just stumbled into this tragedy.

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Supposedly this was not a "home invasion" type of scenario. I suspect that he knew the women if however briefly, and they let him in voluntarily.
If he was stalking the child, why would he not just kidnap the child when she was by herself, such as going to or from school, etc.

I think he was known to them in passing like at the DQ and having seen him around town. The other I really don't know. Who knows what goes on in someone's mind when they are not all there mentally. We just know that Sarah was the target since she is the only one that is known to be still alive. He wanted her for his own sick reason and willing to get her at any cost.

Here is a glance at which agency is doing what in this case:

The State Highway Patrol searched from overhead.

Meanwhile, FBI agents analyzed cell-phone records and credit-card activity, while sheriff’s detectives followed tips and leads from the public.

The Central Ohio Child Abduction Response Team and volunteers with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children arrived to assist, and a volunteer search party of a couple of dozen people scoured the campus area yesterday morning without result

http://www.dispatch.com/live/conten...for-lead-as-search-for-4-goes-on.html?sid=101

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mahmoo said:

Hmmm.....according to our members that were watching JVM and posting on the tail-end of thread #3....LE didn't "think" anyone else was involved besides MH. Assuming that's accurate....I again say, how did this lone perp manage vehicles and transport of 4 people & a dog alone? Have y'all posted theories on this already and I missed it a thousand posts back?

I continue to stare at this map one of our members "pinned" for us (sorry I've lost track of who to give credit to) and the distance between the 3 primary crime scenes we know of so far don't appear to logically have been walked between at any point....especially during the commission of a crime like we're following here. I think a vehicle(s) was used.

The perps vehicle was at his home and was impounded. One victim's vehicle was removed from her residence and abandoned...another victim's vehicle was found at that same residence.

How was this pulled off by one perp :waitasec:.

All of the victims were somehow, at some point, removed from the Apple Valley residence. My opinion is that they were all removed at the same time. I can't imagine the perp(s) would be running back and forth periodically removing the victims.....seems like it would raise the risk factor a great deal. Plus, it seems there may be a fairly tight time line established as to when the kids would have arrived home from school, when TH would have normally showed up at work, when a "wellness check" was requested at the residence, etc.

I'm also wondering if TH's fiance had met, or knew of, MH? They're all about in the same age range right? Had MH visited in the past before the break up? Maybe stopped by for a BBQ or to have a few beers?

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Now that we know that Matthew Hoffman's parents live right around the corner from Tina's house, he may have driven his own vehicle to his parent's house and left it there. He committed the crime and used both Tina's truck and Stephanie's Jeep (sheriff stated in yesterday's presser that there was evidence recovered from both vehicles).

A possible scenario, although I don't know how plausible this is: He leaves his car at his parents house or somewhere near Tina's house but concealed. He goes to Tina's house and commits the crime. He leaves, taking Sarah with him in his car and goes back to his house in Mount Vernon. He leaves Tina, Stephanie, and Kody incapacitated and not visible if anyone should look in a window. That's why when the sheriff deputy came by twice during the evening no one answered the door.

After leaving Sarah bound and gagged in the basement of his house. He returns to Tina's house sometime in the wee hours of Thursday morning. He may have even been there when the deputy came by the second time late in the evening. He put Tina, Stephanie, and Kody in the truck and took them wherever he took them and left Tina's truck at the college and walked home.

If I remember correctly, the deputy said that the second time he came to the house (late evening) the lights were on inside but there was no response. MH could have come back by this time and was in the house when the deputy came. Perhaps it was MH that turned the lights on.

Sometime on Thursday, he either took a cab to his parents house to retrieve his car, or asked someone for a ride. I doubt his car was parked on his parent's property.........it was probably somewhere near the parents house concealed.

C.Hound said:

If the neighbor who appeared on JVM is Donna/Dawna Davis, her story has changed...

"[Donna] Davis and other neighbors said the FBI questioned residents about when they had last seen Hoffman, what kind of car he drove and whether they had noticed anything unusual about his behavior. Davis said she hadn't seen anything out of the ordinary at Hoffman's house recently."

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/11/15/girl-found-alive.html?sid=101

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She wasn't really on JVM's show....sorry :blushing: I get to typing what they're saying & forget to put it in context...NEhoo, the 'D' neighbor was saying this in a news vid that was played (looked like local news to me, JMO)...I was listening & typing so I didn't get to see which station was talking to her.

If I run across it, I'll post a link.

Now the 'C' neighbor that lived across the street, she did say that she didn't see MH or know him - but she watched the fires he had going '3-4' times a week...she called into the show & I only heard her voice.

since they didn't specify what sort of evidence they found, i don't think we can assume he used both vehicles. we just don't know that part, since it's part of an open investigation.

i still say that if he had a gun or did something to the dog, subduing multiple people would be a very viable option.

Leila said:

Now that we know that Matthew Hoffman's parents live right around the corner from Tina's house, he may have driven his own vehicle to his parent's house and left it there. He committed the crime and used both Tina's truck and Stephanie's Jeep (sheriff stated in yesterday's presser that there was evidence recovered from both vehicles).

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Here is more from the neighbour. It seems it was her friend that lived with MH, she thinks the motive for MH taking Sarah, was that she looks just like her friend who broke up with him.

Davis said she talked to police extensively about her neighbor, and the fact that he used to kill squirrels and eat them. ​

She also believes he killed a couple of dogs. ​

He wasn't always so strange, she said. "He was very nice when we first met him" a year ago, and invited them over for a party at his house, with a couple of kegs. ​

"He started dating my friend and she moved in to his house with her son". Davis said her friend was living with Hoffman up until a month ago, when she ended the relationship and moved out. Hoffman was then apparently very depressed and desperately trying to get the girlfriend to come back. Davis thinks that may have lead to the kidnappings "The young girl looked a lot like my friend. I think that's why he took her".​

Read more: http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/...search-for-missing-ohio-family/#ixzz15PPq5Jee​

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belimom said:

The home on Apple Valley is owned by his mother and stepfather. See http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40193670/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts

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The last name is Hedglin. I think he spent more time at this home than he or they admit.

jjenny said:

Supposedly this was not a "home invasion" type of scenario. I suspect that he knew the women if however briefly, and they let him in voluntarily.
If he was stalking the child, why would he not just kidnap the child when she was by herself, such as going to or from school, etc.

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This is the most confusing part to me. It just seems that this guy had more than just kidnapping in mind because he could have taken the young girl without harming/possibly murdering 3 other people. Possibly he wanted to harm the family and decieded he wanted to keep the girl for some sick reason. It just seems like going to an extreme to get to one person. But then again this is a guy who committed arson. I don't know much about arsonists really. I know they like fire, but do they want to murder people by burning them with the building?:waitasec: