CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 9

believe09 · Jun 17, 2012

GrainneDhu said:
I can only guess and speculate as to Bob's intentions.

According to different accounts, the meeting was called by his daughters to force Bob to produce a copy of their mother's will, which they claimed was somehow overdue.

This is a ridiculous allegation because anyone who wants it can walk into the county courthouse, plunk down a minimal fee and get a copy of that will. It's not a top secret document, it's just a will!

According to various accounts, the meeting grew heated, Bob grew heated or there was an argument over finances. There may be other versions out there but those are the top three that I recall.

So here's my speculation: someone called a meeting with Bob because they felt threatened by Bob's new relationship with Fontelle (who was in Missouri at the time and can prove it). I think the intention was to confront Bob as to his intentions in regard to Fontelle. Bob's heirs may have been under the misapprehension that Bob's assets were in some way no longer available to him to distribute as he saw fit.

I don't think Bob intended to make a big announcement to his heirs, I think he was pushed into it by their insistence on wanting to know if he was going to spend any of his money on his new wife.

I hope Bob was not afraid of his heirs, that it was more a matter of Bob losing patience with being treated like their personal ATM.

I think this is very insightful. And my issue from the beginning has been that all they had to do was head to the courthouse and get a copy of the trust which was filed in March 2008 after Georgia passed away.

Instead these women used it as a cudgel to beat their father...here is the way I see it fwiw.

They didnt get the fact that Bob was the beneficiary of the ByPass trust. They thought that it would all come to them upon her death. I bet they spent a little bit of money in anticipation. But it was Bob's-all of it. The ByPass was a vehicle to minimize estate taxes, but it favored the survivor of the marriage. The only bequests were jewelry and 10K to Andrew if Bob passed first.

That is it. Of course you dont have to take my word for it, for sure.

10K to Andrew. A multi million dollar estate and Andrew's portion directly from his grandparents was 10K. Isnt that something?

believe09 · Jun 17, 2012

cloudajo said:
Just for reference.

Grandson AHs Deposition August 2011
Starting on page 60:
[snipped]

Q: You know, Bob, as we know, hasnt been seen since July of 09. You testified you saw him about a week prior. Weve taken other depositions on this case. My understanding there was a meeting on or about July 27th of 09 at Bobs house where he had Roberta and Paula there to discuss his estate plan. Were you present there at that meeting?

AH: No.

Q. Were you ever told what occurred at that meeting?

AH: Yes.

Q. Who told you?

AH: My aunts and my parents.

Q. What did they tell you about that meeting?

[Objection]

AH: The gist of those conversations okay. The gist of the conversations as relayed to me was that there were open questions surrounding my grandmothers portion of the estate and that he wanted to resolve those.

Q. Was there any representations made by you made to you from any participant to that meeting that there had been, in fact, a resolution of those issues?

AH: In those words, no, but they there seemed people seemed to be satisfied as a result of the conversation.

Daughter PBs Post on IS Forum August 2009
There was a family meeting on Sunday, it was heated at times, there were NO threats and we all left on good terms.

Daughter RBs Interview in OC Register October 2009
Bob Harrod and his three daughters had an argument over finances the Sunday before he vanished.

His daughter, Roberta, acknowledged the exchange, saying her father lost his temper. She said he had failed to provide copies of their mother's will, which he was obligated to do because of the financial mechanisms set up by the estate.

"It wasn't a heated meeting," she said in a phone interview. "Dad got heated. He's very selfish, very conditional. The day before he went missing in the afternoon, he was going to provide us copies of the will, and we went over to get the copies. He didn't have them."

http://www.ocregister.com/news/-214111--.html

Thank you for that. Let's not forget Andrews own statements at the welfare check. Paraphrased, Bob may have left because there was fighting in the family.

The depositions for RB and PB must be pretty interesting. They are also filed and available to the public.

Angelo · Jun 17, 2012

believe09 said:
Thank you for that. Let's not forget Andrews own statements at the welfare check. Paraphrased, Bob may have left because there was fighting in the family.

The depositions for RB and PB must be pretty interesting. They are also filed and available to the public.

BBM~~

Let's get them and put them up!

believe09 · Jun 17, 2012

Okey Dokey. We might as well get Fontelle's as well. I bet she has some interesting input regarding her experiences with the Harrod women. And Andrew. Apparently he was the most agressive of the 5.

Start PM'ing me stuff and I will have the person meeting Gitana make a list. Tricia and I will be setting up the PayPal Tuesday I believe.

Montjoy · Jun 17, 2012

Fairy1 said:
Why would he have disclosed his intentions to people he knew would NOT be happy about it?

We can only guess. I would speculate that he was asked directly, probably more than once. And while it was of course his right to tell them, I fear it was a fatal mistake.

suzyq211 · Jun 17, 2012

Montjoy said:
We can only guess. I would speculate that he was asked directly, probably more than once. And while it was of course his right to tell them, I fear it was a fatal mistake.

I agree. In my mind I picture him at his wit's end...sick and tired of all the haranguing and nagging about "the money" HIS money, but not in THEIR eyes. On one hand he was on the brink of a new and exciting life with his wife Fontelle, on the other the constant ,nasty hounding about his estate. Maybe he was driven to state his intentions to shut them up. Honestly, I can barely picture that meeting without feeling sick.

GrainneDhu · Jun 17, 2012

believe09 said:
I think this is very insightful. And my issue from the beginning has been that all they had to do was head to the courthouse and get a copy of the trust which was filed in March 2008 after Georgia passed away.

Instead these women used it as a cudgel to beat their father...here is the way I see it fwiw.

They didnt get the fact that Bob was the beneficiary of the ByPass trust. They thought that it would all come to them upon her death. I bet they spent a little bit of money in anticipation. But it was Bob's-all of it. The ByPass was a vehicle to minimize estate taxes, but it favored the survivor of the marriage. The only bequests were jewelry and 10K to Andrew if Bob passed first.

That is it. Of course you dont have to take my word for it, for sure.

10K to Andrew. A multi million dollar estate and Andrew's portion directly from his grandparents was 10K. Isnt that something?

That bequest to AH suggests to me that AH had already received disproportionate amounts of money (compared to his parents and aunts) from Bob and Georgia. So much money that to give him an equal share would have been to make his portion significantly larger than anyone else's share.

I have no way to know for sure but I would love for someone with standing to call for a forensic examination of Bob's finances from, say, 2000.

GrainneDhu · Jun 17, 2012

believe09 said:
Thank you for that. Let's not forget Andrews own statements at the welfare check. Paraphrased, Bob may have left because there was fighting in the family.

The depositions for RB and PB must be pretty interesting. They are also filed and available to the public.

Has the PayPal thingie been set up?

GrainneDhu · Jun 17, 2012

believe09 said:
Okey Dokey. We might as well get Fontelle's as well. I bet she has some interesting input regarding her experiences with the Harrod women. And Andrew. Apparently he was the most agressive of the 5.

Start PM'ing me stuff and I will have the person meeting Gitana make a list. Tricia and I will be setting up the PayPal Tuesday I believe.

Based on what we know of AH's behaviour, I'm surprised he didn't change his name to Sonny.

JamaicanMeCrzy · Jun 17, 2012

Long time lurker and I believe it would be most appropriate to post this letter entered as exhibit #19 from the hearing of October 31st 2011. I would like to call your attention to what I see as a glaring venom filled letter. RB called Bobs attorney on a Friday nite because she was so concerned about the bypass trust. How many of us could or would call an attorney in the evening to rant and rave about a trust?

Then in January she was putting together a demand letter with both of her sisters. Bob got wind of it and immediately went after JM son-n-law. Why??? Just a guess, but maybe Bob thought JM was pushing the daughters to get their dues. In any case there appears to be no love loss between the two of them.

Next once the daughters got the information letter from Bobs attorney. It becomes apparent to RB that the bypass trust is a tax shelter for Bob. This is why she wanted clarification of the wording if he needs and standards set forth in the trust instrument

It appears that she is approaching panic mode. Note the words and phrases. the rights of beneficiariesincompetent or suspected improper handling of our mothers bypass trustas beneficiary, I am entitled to speculationsuspicion very stressful for me to endurespeculation and suspicionlegal rights of beneficiaries family strife suffering

This letter was written and sent just ten days before Bob vanished from his home. There is no doubt in my mind that this letter set the tone of the meeting Sunday the 26th of July 2009 the day before JM came over to take care of some needs at Bobs home.

HBilly Jack

Happy Fathers Day Mr. Harrod.

suzyq211 · Jun 17, 2012

Wow, that sense of entitlement blows me away. Poor Bob, he never had a chance.

cloudajo · Jun 17, 2012

JamaicanMeCrzy said:
Long time lurker and I believe it would be most appropriate to post this letter entered as exhibit #19 from the hearing of October 31st 2011. I would like to call your attention to what I see as a glaring venom filled letter. RB called Bobs attorney on a Friday nite because she was so concerned about the bypass trust. How many of us could or would call an attorney in the evening to rant and rave about a trust?

Then in January she was putting together a demand letter with both of her sisters. Bob got wind of it and immediately went after JM son-n-law. Why??? Just a guess, but maybe Bob thought JM was pushing the daughters to get their dues. In any case there appears to be no love loss between the two of them.

Next once the daughters got the information letter from Bobs attorney. It becomes apparent to RB that the bypass trust is a tax shelter for Bob. This is why she wanted clarification of the wording if he needs and standards set forth in the trust instrument

It appears that she is approaching panic mode. Note the words and phrases. the rights of beneficiariesincompetent or suspected improper handling of our mothers bypass trustas beneficiary, I am entitled to speculationsuspicion very stressful for me to endurespeculation and suspicionlegal rights of beneficiaries family strife suffering

This letter was written and sent just ten days before Bob vanished from his home. There is no doubt in my mind that this letter set the tone of the meeting Sunday the 26th of July 2009 the day before JM came over to take care of some needs at Bobs home.

HBilly Jack

Happy Fathers Day Mr. Harrod.

Thank you for posting this. Wow. As you mention, the letter from RB to Bob's attorney was dated July 17, 2009, 10 days before Bob went missing. At the bottom of the letter it has a Cc: to Robert M. Harrod.

cloudajo · Jun 17, 2012

Daughter RBs Letter to Bobs Attorney with a Cc to Bob July 17, 2009

[snipped]

If the documents are not provided within 30 days of receipt of this letter without reasonable explanation, I will have no choice but to seek my own legal advise, at the personal expense of the trustee, per Probate Code.

Daughter PBs Post on IS Forum August 2009

There was a family meeting on Sunday, it was heated at times, there were NO threats and we all left on good terms.

Daughter RBs Interview in OC Register October 2009

Bob Harrod and his three daughters had an argument over finances the Sunday before he vanished.

His daughter, Roberta, acknowledged the exchange, saying her father lost his temper. She said he had failed to provide copies of their mother's will, which he was obligated to do because of the financial mechanisms set up by the estate.

"It wasn't a heated meeting," she said in a phone interview. "Dad got heated. He's very selfish, very conditional. The day before he went missing in the afternoon, he was going to provide us copies of the will, and we went over to get the copies. He didn't have them."

cloudajo · Jun 17, 2012

[snipped]

My earlier January attempt to coordinate preparation of a letter requesting these documents on behalf of all three sisters in agreement resulted in our father contacting my brother-in-law and launching into a lengthy and totally uncalled-for angry tirade! Needless to say, his phone call has been the primary cause of a sizeable rift amongst the sisters ever since January. My sister Paula ended up taking most of the blame for his inappropriate overreaction. All she did was try to give him a "heads-up".

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #9

suzyq211 · Jun 17, 2012

cloudajo said:
His daughter, Roberta, acknowledged the exchange, saying her father lost his temper. She said he had failed to provide copies of their mother's will, which he was obligated to do because of the financial mechanisms set up by the estate.

"It wasn't a heated meeting," she said in a phone interview. "Dad got heated. He's very selfish, very conditional. The day before he went missing in the afternoon, he was going to provide us copies of the will, and we went over to get the copies. He didn't have them."

<snipped>

BULL*****!!!! It had nothing to do with Bob's providing copies of ANYTHING! Let's get real, here. They wanted all of the money! They felt they were entitled to every last penny, to hell with their father and his happiness!

SuziQ · Jun 17, 2012

JamaicanMeCrzy said:
Long time lurker and I believe it would be most appropriate to post this letter entered as exhibit #19 from the hearing of October 31st 2011. I would like to call your attention to what I see as a glaring venom filled letter. RB called Bobs attorney on a Friday nite because she was so concerned about the bypass trust. How many of us could or would call an attorney in the evening to rant and rave about a trust?

Then in January she was putting together a demand letter with both of her sisters. Bob got wind of it and immediately went after JM son-n-law. Why??? Just a guess, but maybe Bob thought JM was pushing the daughters to get their dues. In any case there appears to be no love loss between the two of them.

Next once the daughters got the information letter from Bobs attorney. It becomes apparent to RB that the bypass trust is a tax shelter for Bob. This is why she wanted clarification of the wording if he needs and standards set forth in the trust instrument

It appears that she is approaching panic mode. Note the words and phrases. the rights of beneficiariesincompetent or suspected improper handling of our mothers bypass trustas beneficiary, I am entitled to speculationsuspicion very stressful for me to endurespeculation and suspicionlegal rights of beneficiaries family strife suffering

This letter was written and sent just ten days before Bob vanished from his home. There is no doubt in my mind that this letter set the tone of the meeting Sunday the 26th of July 2009 the day before JM came over to take care of some needs at Bobs home.

HBilly Jack

Happy Fathers Day Mr. Harrod.

Welcome to WS! Great first post.

SuziQ · Jun 17, 2012

Doesn't AH claim in the depo that the meeting was favorable or whatever word he used? Despite the fact that his previous public statements was the meeting was heated? Do I have this correct?

cloudajo · Jun 17, 2012

Daughter RB later posted on IS that at the family meeting after the trust discussions, they sat around making small talk and happy talk teasing Bob about being a newlywed.

Does anyone believe that now?

cloudajo · Jun 17, 2012

SuziQ said:
Doesn't AH claim in the depo that the meeting was favorable or whatever word he used? Despite the fact that his previous public statements was the meeting was heated? Do I have this correct?

This is what he said in his depo:

AH: The gist of those conversations okay. The gist of the conversations as relayed to me was that there were open questions surrounding my grandmothers portion of the estate and that he wanted to resolve those.

Q. Was there any representations made by you made to you from any participant to that meeting that there had been, in fact, a resolution of those issues?

AH: In those words, no, but they there seemed people seemed to be satisfied as a result of the conversation.

believe09 · Jun 17, 2012

cloudajo said:
[snipped]

My earlier January attempt to coordinate preparation of a letter requesting these documents on behalf of all three sisters in agreement resulted in our father contacting my brother-in-law and launching into a lengthy and totally uncalled-for angry tirade! Needless to say, his phone call has been the primary cause of a sizeable rift amongst the sisters ever since January. My sister Paula ended up taking most of the blame for his inappropriate overreaction. All she did was try to give him a "heads-up".

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #9

:thud:
Inappropriate over reaction? Bob was the beneficiary of this trust. It was all his. He could do as he will with it. He could have transferred all of it into the Survivors Trust. Or he could have charged every single day to day living expenses from gardeners, drycleaning and hotel rooms to it.

Wait a minute. Isnt wasnt Bob who did that. My Bad.

Talk about Elder Abuse. Can you imagine having gone through multiple APS visits because your youngest called them in and then receiving a "poison pen" letter like this one?

Bob had no sign of dementia. His doctor made it abundantly clear. No wonder Bob had to pay his children to stay away.

What a mess.

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