Myth Busters & Facts **NO DISCUSSION HERE PLEASE**

B Conway was not retained by the A's on the night of the remains find. Brad Conway became the A's lawyer on the evening of Dec. 9th, 2008, 2 days before Caylee's remains were discovered on December 11th. Per Brad Conway in his press statement given on December 15th:

http://www.wftv.com/video/18283663/index.html Time mark: 18:30

There were 3 bags. 2 black plastic garbage bags with yellow ties that were double bagged and put inside the canvas laundry bag.

Confirmed - page 3377

MYTH: Cindy claimed to be a 'nurse of decomposition'.

What Cindy actually said was, "I've smelled that odor before (I am a nurse) of decomposion."

http://www.blinkx.com/video/cindy-a...ers-after-bond-hearing/cIhCJlu_KbYMGhhGrWmF4Q

Detailed exposition of why this is not true here on the Computer Forensics thread.

Net: These were visits by Lee on July 16 as he assembled the "cayleeismissing" myspace page.

Tony did not use a shovel to break the shed lock to get gas. He used a tire iron.

Page 45:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey-anthony-interviews,0,100606.htmlpage

"The shed with the gasoline was locked, so he used a tire iron to pry the lock open."

Even LE was running with that myth for months. In the latest document dump we see on several pages, including page 4300 (July 30, 2008):



Yet later we see on January 22 that page 4208 is updated:



The latter is consistent with the ATT records.

Dr. Lee did not find "17 more hairs" that OCSO did not find, as stated by JB during the sanction motion hearing on March 12, 2009.

HotDogs reviewed the previously released case docs after the hearing and educated us with this post from this thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3449479#post3449479

Hot Dogs said:

The docs can be maddening to follow and try to understand. It looks like both OCSO and Lee missed hairs that were later found. It may have been Lee's visit that caused OCSO to re-examine things in which they found hairs that both of them had possibly overlooked.

Back in August, OCSO found 7 hairs on various liners and covers that are part of the trunk furnishings (this is not the "white bag" trash). Then Lee shows up in November, looks at the "white bag trash", looks at the liners and covers from the trunk, and finds a hair in the trunk itself. The liners and covers had already been removed from the trunk, so when Lee looked in - the trunk was already stripped of all this stuff.

While Lee was there, three hairs were found amongst the trash. It says that "we" found this evidence.

About 1.5 hours after Lee leaves, OCSO begins checking stuff again. They find 14 more hairs on various trash, liners and covers.

It seems that Lee found one hair, and his visit prompted the finding of 17 more.

Click to expand...

Lots of great discussion about the 17 hairs on the same thread - pages 30-34.

Per Anon call to Melich April 6, 2009 doc dump...

Caylee was seen by ANON caller to be with her Grandma Cindy on June 13th while Casey was at Fusion.

FACT: It has been reported that JB recieved 225,000.00 (from ABC), possibly on KC's behalf, for videos of Caylee.

There is a rumor going around, often stated as known fact, that George and Cindy sold videos of their granddaughter Caylee for $225, 000.00. This is incorrect. What has actually been reported (but has not been proven) is that JB received this money from ABC, possibly on behalf of KC, for videos of Caylee.

It was reported by private investigator, JH, during his taped deposition in the ZFG defamation suit. He calls the information “hearsay” which he received from DC. An excerpt from the deposition below shows the conversation between JH and JM and what was actually said:


(excerpt from pp. 70 – 71 0f rough draft of deposition given by James Hoover to John Morgan on 3/25/2009 in the civil suit by Zenaida Gonzales against Casey Anthony)

9 Q In the course of your time spent here as a
10 public citizen volunteering, did you ever come to
11 understand that ABC news had given the Anthonys or José
12 Baez money?
13 A I didn't know that to be a fact, no, sir.
14 Q Have you heard that?
15 A I heard -- I had heard that -- oh, that money
16 was given to the Anthonys, no, no, sir.
17 Q To anyone?
18 A Uhm, I had heard that money had been given to
19 the attorney for some individual -- I don't know if it
20 was given to the attorney or to Casey for some videos
21 that was on ABC news.
22 Q José Baez received money?
23 A Yes, sir, I think so. I heard that. I don't
24 know for sure.
25 Q Hearsay?
Rough Draft - 71
1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q Was it 200,000 dollars? Was that number you
3 heard?
4 A 200 or 225. I heard both numbers.
5 Q Was paid to José Baez by ABC News?
6 A Yes, sir.
7 Q And what was your understanding that that
8 money was paid for?
9 A Some videotapes that were released.
10 Q Okay.
11 A Again, hearsay.
12 Q Of course. Who told you that?
13 A Dominic Casey.
14 Q Pretty good hearsay?
15 A Pretty good, you would think.

There seems to be quite a common perception that the term 'homicide' = murder. That's not the case, so I thought I'd post some explanatory info. here:

Homicide - definition

The killing of one human being by the act or omission of another. The term applies to all such killings, whether criminal or not. Homicide is considered noncriminal in a number of situations, including deaths as the result of war and putting someone to death by the valid sentence of a court. Killing may also be legally justified or excused, as it is in cases of self-defense or when someone is killed by another person who is attempting to prevent a violent felony. Criminal homicide occurs when a person purposely, knowingly, recklessly or negligently causes the death of another. Murder and manslaughter are both examples of criminal homicide.

So, if someone causes the death of another through a reckless or negligent act or omission, that is also homicide. E.g, if I decided to start up a new business offering some sort of outdoor pursuit type activity, abseiling on a specially constructed structure perhaps, but knowingly or recklessly failed to ensure that all the installations met the relevant safety standards, or failed to properly monitor the safety of the participants, and someone died as a result, that would be manslaughter. I would not have murdered that person, but I would still be guilty of homicide.

See also the following link for all the crimes that are included under the category of homicide in the Florida statutes:

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0782/ch0782.htm

I continue to see speculation on the board as to whether or not KC's fingerprints were found on the duct tape covering the skull, and that the FBI will surprise us at a later date with the bombshell evidence. The confusion arises, I believe, due to the very dry manner in which the FBI produces reports.

Here are extracts from the FBI report in question (discovery pages 3781 and 3782):

First we begin with nothing more than an inventory of the items received by the FBI:

The items listed below were examined in the Latent Print Operations Unit:
ITEMS FROM MEDICAL EXAMINER'S OFFICE
ITEMS FROM RESIDENCE
This report is being issued by the Latent Print Operations Unit.

The three pieces of duct tape represented above were all found on the skull. Not included in this submission is the piece of Henkel's duct tape found around noon on the 12th near the original location of the skull, nor the piece of Henkel's duct tape found on the gas can.

So, standard operating procedure would be to first determine if there are any prints on the tape. Next would be to compare with the elimination prints to see if any person not suspected of being party to the crime but who had reason to handle the tape (such as at home for normal use) might have left their print on the tape. Lastly, if no elimination match, compare with the FBI database, starting with KC.

Results of Examinations:

The requested latent print examinations were conducted, but no latent prints were detected.

I think the FBI is pretty clear here: "no latent prints were detected". It does not say no elimination latent prints were found. They found nothing, and therefore did not need to do any further comparisons.

While a disappointing result, it is not surprising. That tape was exposed to the elements for quite some time and had begun to deteriorate. We are lucky they found sticker residue. We can hold out hope that prints might be found on the other two pieces mentioned above, but other forensic evidence is needed from the skull duct tape because the fingerprints are not there.

Results of Examinations:

The requested latent print examinations were conducted, but no latent prints were detected.
This is speaking of pieces of plastic from the laundry bag in the FBI report just released last Friday http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/0619/19802052.pdf page 6600 or page 11 of 14 in PDF format

In some of the attempts to discredit Roy Kronk and his find, a rumor/myth cropped up that his supervisor, "Scott", lived on Hopespring and had sent Kronk to look for Caylee.

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/18740699/detail.html

Fact: no mention of "Scott" or Hopespring Drive among water department employees.


"Alex Roberts, Blue Earth Ct, Orlando...is Roy Kronk's direct supervisor."

"David Dean, Rouse Rd, Orlando ...with Roy Kronk the day he first saw suspicious items..."

"Christopher Gibson, Bo Jeremy Dr, Orlando...with Roy Kronk the day he first saw suspicious items..."

In Kronk's own words, seemingly unchallenged:

In the early 1990s, while on duty with the U.S. Coast Guard in Key West, Florida, I had a girlfriend who made the decision to discontinue her relationship with me and move to South Carolina to reside with another man. At some time after her departure, she called me and asked me to come to South Carolina and help her move away from that individual. I travelled to South Carolina to assist her. Upon my arrival in South Carolina, the man she was living with engaged me in a confrontation. As a result of that confrontation, I was arrested based on false allegations that I had kidnapped my former girlfriend. The matter was submitted to a grand jury in South Carolina. The grand jury determined that there was no probable cause to bring charges against me. In recognition of the falsity of these allegations, all records relating to this arrest were expunged by the South Carolina court

you guys would save yourself a lot of aggravation if you started using this thread for listing hard facts that seem to be disputed on the board. When asked for a link you could just cite this thread if it was full of good stuff.
My tip of the day

PLease read the opening post to understand how this thread should work.

There was no meat or any other food product in the trash bag.

From Gerardo Bloise's report,

page 22 http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0121/18530363.pdf
Monday, August 25, 2008

At approximately 1100 hours I met with ASL Michael Vincent regarding a white trash bag with blue handle which said bag contained several items.(Art #1, Item #H-51-976)

ASL Vincent asked if inside the trash bag contained pizza or any type of meat. I informed ASL Vincent that when I checked inside the trash bag on July 16, 2008, I did not find any pizza or any type of meat.After said conversation, ASL Vincent instructed me to go to the Evidence Unit and retrieve art # 1 in order to re-check the trash bag again. At approximately 1153 hours I arrived at the Evidence Unit and I collected a sealed box containing the trash bag. At approximately 1300 hours I arrived at the Forensics lab and proceeded to open the sealed box.

Myself and ASL Vincent re-inspected the trash bag. No pieces of pizza or meat were found.

TRASH BAG INVENTORY

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20321119/detail.html

PICTURES OF TRASH FROM THE TRASH BAG http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/20320624/detail.html

E-MAIL BETWEEN OCSO AND ARPAD VASS ABOUT THE TRASH:

-----Original Message-----
From: Vincent, Michael (OCSO)
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:30 PM
To: Vass, Arpad Alexander
Subject: **Exempt**

Doc,

I check the trash that was in the vehicle there was no meat products in the trash. There were pieces of a pizza box and other food containers. I will be emailing you a picture of the items first thing tomorrow.

ASL/CSI Michael J. Vincent
OCSO/Forensics Unit

-----Original Message-----
From: Vass, Arpad Alexander
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:33 PM
To: Vincent, Michael
Subject: RE: **Exempt**




Mike, not sure how I got that there was a pizza in the trunk – sorry about that one, but can you send me an itemized list of stuff that was in the trunk at the time the car was searched? Also, were the maggots on the pizza box?? Arpad

Arpad A. Vass, Ph.D.

-----Original Message-----
From: Vincent, Michael (OCSO)
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:40 PM
To: 'Vass, Arpad Alexander'
Subject: RE: **Exempt**

The pizza story came from the mother, who told reporters the smell was from pizza in the trunk. A local news station left a half of pizza in a trunk for seven days, there results were no smell, no maggots, just dried out pizza. I will send you the list along with the pictures.

ASL/CSI Michael J. Vincent
OCSO/Forensics Unit

-----Original Message-----
From: Vincent, Michael (OCSO)
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:40 PM
To: Vass, Arpad Alexander
Cc: Yuri.Melich@ocfl.net
Subject: **Exempt**

Doc,
Attached is a list of items that was in the trash bag in the vehicle. Also attached are pictures of the items. If there is anything else I can help you with please let me know.


ASL/CSI Michael J. Vincent
OCSO/Forensics Unit

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ll#post4081938

On
FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 14, 2008
Atapproximately 1018 hours the following persons arrived at the Forensics office;

1.Dr.Henry C. Lee,
2. Mr.Jose Baez fromthe Baez law Firm Defense Attorney.
3. Mr.Edward E. Phlegar fromthe Baez Law firm.

and met for a conference meeting with this investigator and the following parties named below;

1. Assistant Squad Leader Michael Vincent from Forensic Unit.
2.Sargeant john Allen from Missing Person.
3. Detective Corporal yuri Melich from Missing Person.
4.Detective Corporal William Edwards from homicide unit.
5. Special Agent Nick SAvage from the FBI.

met and viewed items from the white trash bag. page 22 http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0121/18530363.pdf

Lee wasn't denied access. He wasn't restrictred to viewing pictures. He found hairs in the garbage. But not meat or food.

Myth being busted:
It is thought that YM was not notified by the Anthony's about the decomp odor in the Pontiac when he first met with them.



George Anthony did tell Yuri Melich that there was an odor that smelled like something died in the back of the car when he first saw George Anthony. Hopefully we can put at least this myth to rest.

http://cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Anthony%20%20George0724.pdf

Yuri Melich:

MYTH: When they went to the OCSO forensics garage to examine the car, Henry Lee and Baez left for "lunch" and never returned.

FACT: They did return from lunch, and in fact didn't look at the vehicle until AFTER lunch. But they didn't spend much time looking at the vehicle.

November 14, 2008

10:18 a.m. Henry Lee, Baez and Baez's in-house PI arrive at the Forensics office of OCSO. They meet with Michael Vincent (OSCO Forensics), Officers Allen, Melich, and Edwards, and Nick Savage from the FBI.

10:40 a.m. Henry Lee began inspection of right & left trunk liners and spare tire cover (which had been removed from the car and placed in sealed boxes). The inspection of the trunk liners and spare tire cover, which probably had the strongest smell of anything from the vehicle and quite a few strange stains, lasted about 2 hours.

12:48 pm Henry Lee, Baez, and Baez's PI left for lunch.

2:15 pm Henry Lee, Baez and Baez's PI returned from lunch and began to examine the items that were removed from the white trash bag that the tow yard guy had removed from Casey's trunk and thrown in the dumpster. The inspection of the items from the trash bag lasted about an hour and a half. 3 hairs were found on the items from the trash bag.

3:40 pm Henry Lee began to examine the car. The inspection of the car lasted about a half-hour. Lee found one hair in the trunk.

4:10 pm Henry Lee, Baez and Baez's paralegal left.

Forensics officer Bloise decided to look over the trash and vehicle again since Henry Lee had found 4 hairs. Over the next couple of days, Bloise found 7 more hairs on items from the trash and 7 more hairs on items from the trunk.

Timeline beginning on p. 33:
http://blogs.discovery.com/files/18530237.pdf

Myth: That the skull had roots growing through it to indicate it had been on the ground for some time. The roots were reported as growing through the bags that were on the ground.


DOCUMENTS RELEASED: Sheriff's Office Crime Scene Reports
http://www.wftv.com/_blank/18740668/detail.html

Page 2

Myth: LE needed a search warrant to seize the car.

According to YM they simply asked GA and CA to turn over the car on the 16th and they turned it over cooperatively; so no search warrant was necessary.

Page 2

According to Yuri Melich at the bond hearing he did not need a SW to take the car. As a matter of fact, he seemed to be making a point that he was working cooperatively with CA and GA and did not want to force them to give anything up by way of a search warrant. he did not want them to think he was viewing them in a bad light. So he just asked for what he needed and they were more than happy to oblige in an effort to aid the investigation to find their granddaughter. There us also a copy of the affadavit signed by george at 9:30pm on the 16th in the very first doc dump.(I think it is the first one)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwU6B--gSG4"]YM at Bond Hearing[/ame]