NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 8

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OldSteve said:
Agreed! I'm waiting for Mr. Renner to uncover any information to support his theory that Maura was going up to NH to meet someone on that fateful night. It all (imo) points to a Walk Away or an attempt at a short respite or lover's tryst that went horribly wrong and ended in foul play. After all, it's not that easy to successfully disappear unless you have money and connections or forged papers.

If your were a high achiever who possibly had an eating disorder, a philandering (allegedly) boyfriend, an unsympathetic sister/family and was in trouble after credit card misappropriation and crashing your father's car possibly after a few too many... you might be tempted to run into the arms of someone who had less than honorable intentions.
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Unscripted said:
Agreed! I'm waiting for Mr. Renner to uncover any information to support his theory that Maura was going up to NH to meet someone on that fateful night. It all (imo) points to a Walk Away or an attempt at a short respite or lover's tryst that went horribly wrong and ended in foul play. After all, it's not that easy to successfully disappear unless you have money and connections or forged papers.

If your were a high achiever who possibly had an eating disorder, a philandering (allegedly) boyfriend, an unsympathetic sister/family and was in trouble after credit card misappropriation and crashing your father's car possibly after a few too many... you might be tempted to run into the arms of someone who had less than honorable intentions.
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BBM-I am always intrigued by this position. I dont believe it takes much to walk away from your life...simply the desire to do it and a plan. As long as you have the means to make money at some point, especially under the radar, off you go. I use this example frequently-Jon VanDyke disappeared from his white collar Las Vegas life to travel on the carnival circuit. He popped up years later to divorce his poor wife and collect his SSI and Pension.
 
Unscripted said:
Agreed! I'm waiting for Mr. Renner to uncover any information to support his theory that Maura was going up to NH to meet someone on that fateful night. It all (imo) points to a Walk Away or an attempt at a short respite or lover's tryst that went horribly wrong and ended in foul play. After all, it's not that easy to successfully disappear unless you have money and connections or forged papers.

If your were a high achiever who possibly had an eating disorder, a philandering (allegedly) boyfriend, an unsympathetic sister/family and was in trouble after credit card misappropriation and crashing your father's car possibly after a few too many... you might be tempted to run into the arms of someone who had less than honorable intentions.
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You could be right, but I'm not so sure. I knew someone with an eating disorder and she liked to be alone a lot. She was deeply ashamed of her affliction. She hid it from everyone, including friends, family, and especially guys. She was secretive and would hide out for days or weeks with her problem. I'm pretty sure Maura had a eating disorder, because she only bought food with the stolen card. She didn't buy an outfit, electronics or a night on the town. If she did have this problem, it makes me think the time she said to her dorm mates that she was going to see her dad in his car, she was actually going out to find food. The dorm mates couldn't believe she was bothering to drive to her dad's hotel room at that late hour, but I think Maura was actually on the hunt for an open store or restaurant somewhere. To me, this scenario fits with an eating disorder. People with eating disorders are very secretive and they fib to keep their secret, because they feel a lot of shame. Now, I can be wrong on her having this disorder, but it does explain her actions and the reason why these events (stealing credit card, car crashes, decision to flee to NH to be alone.) cascaded into her disappearance. Hope this all makes sense!

I want to add in my opinion, she would not have stolen that card, if she didn't have an eating disorder. She was desperate and it was driving her to do things she ordinarily wouldn't do.

This is just my opinion and speculation on the incoming info.
 
It made me very sad when I read about the stolen credit card, because I think she was suffering with a problem and it had a big hold on her. I think it explains why she broke down crying that evening on her work study job, and her actions, which made little sense to many people. If she didn't disappear, evenually she would have got help and moved on with her life. She was not alone about having a problem! JMO
 
I absolutely agree McSpy, fwiw. She is/was very young and I wish she had realized that this kind of mistake was not the be all end all. :(
 
We ordered pizza last night from a large national chain. The order taker at the call centre gave me the obligatory spiel about the card and cardholder needing to be present. When the delivery man came he recognized us from a delivery 6 months ago, started talking about the weather briefly and didn't ask to see the card! Perhaps the late night delivery was just about needing food, not an eating disorder or someone trying to get away with something? It seems that the only was to get food without producing the actual credit card or the last 3 digits on the back of that card would be through take-out delivery. It's not as if you can take a discarded receipt to Whole Foods for your grocery needs.

Regardless, it's still an indication of someone who has some troubles and who, ostensibly, felt she couldn't go to her family or friends about these problems.

I watched the Disappeared episode on Michelle Whitaker (available on YouTube). It helped change my perspective and opened my mind to more possibilities as to what might have happened to Maura.
 
Unscripted said:
We ordered pizza last night from a large national chain. The order taker at the call centre gave me the obligatory spiel about the card and cardholder needing to be present. When the delivery man came he recognized us from a delivery 6 months ago, started talking about the weather briefly and didn't ask to see the card! Perhaps the late night delivery was just about needing food, not an eating disorder or someone trying to get away with something? It seems that the only was to get food without producing the actual credit card or the last 3 digits on the back of that card would be through take-out delivery. It's not as if you can take a discarded receipt to Whole Foods for your grocery needs.

Regardless, it's still an indication of someone who has some troubles and who, ostensibly, felt she couldn't go to her family or friends about these problems.

I watched the Disappeared episode on Michelle Whitaker (available on YouTube). It helped change my perspective and opened my mind to more possibilities as to what might have happened to Maura.
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We have to keep in mind that this happened in 2003. Some of the older restaurants and small businesses still used older registers, which sometimes showed the whole CC number on receipts. Also, the credit card fraud happened before the Great Recession. Everybody had credit back then. I think things have tightened up since.
 
Credit card fraud was a surprise for me. From all I'v read previously I would not have suspected this kind of behavior.

While it might not seem like much, or a big deal when the amount is low, it might expose a personality problem bigger than the the small amount taken.

OT, but back when former NYC Mayor Rudy G wanted to reduce major crime, one way it was accomplished was by going after subway fare beaters. The thought was that many who committed small petty crimes didn't draw the line there, and would commit more serious crimes.
 
Do we have to link to a blog to find out whose credit card she was using at the grocery store? IMO, there was a drinking problem. That can cause people to cry, be impulsive and take off driving, have wrecks, etc. Drinking seemed to be such a theme in every interview on TV. It sounded as if she was tipsy that night, and she could have been less alert and accepted a ride with someone bad or gotten hurt in the woods while running or walking.
 
txsvicki said:
Do we have to link to a blog to find out whose credit card she was using at the grocery store? IMO, there was a drinking problem. That can cause people to cry, be impulsive and take off driving, have wrecks, etc. Drinking seemed to be such a theme in every interview on TV. It sounded as if she was tipsy that night, and she could have been less alert and accepted a ride with someone bad or gotten hurt in the woods while running or walking.
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It was another student's card number, which was used at Pizza joints. Maura got the number from a receipt in the trash.

IMO, I do think Maura had a problem. The stealing was out of desperation. I think she had a budding drinking problem, but I'm pretty convinced she had an eating disorder. I don't know if she did have this problem for sure, but it seems very likely and she also fits the profile of someone with this problem. She was a white, middle class, high achiever, which is the typical description of women who end up with eating disorders. Now, this is only speculation, but so far, this is how it appears to me.

Note how she spent less than $100. on that card. If she was into stealing, she would have maxed out that card right away. I think she was just interested in the food.
 
My opinions only, no facts here:

Re the credit card problem, the point is- do we believe that Maura was broke and starving at college when she had both a supportive father and boyfriend? Unlikely. This sounds like when a super-rich Hollywood actress is caught shoplifting. It is a cry for attention. And yes, eating disorders are also typically a cry for attention. I do not believe Maura had an eating disorder though.

I believe that various problems led Maura to the place where she slid off the road and disappeared. But all that happened after that may well be unrelated to these earlier problems.
 
Okay well if we are going into the concept of eating disorders... which one are you talking about bulimia or anorexia nervosa? I had an eating disorder for 10 years then got some help. A lot of these issues can be due to a past circumstance towards them. It's primarly a control issue you feel like you have the power.
If that was the case, having an eating disorder is something that in my case- I kept hidden and didn't want people to know. Most of the time from what I have seen people want to be seen as the ideal of perfection and they do not want them to know about their other negative behavior.

With the comment of budding alcoholism many people with eating disorders do resort to alcohol as well so it could be likely. But from the people I have met/seen in rehab and other counseling groups. She doesn't really fit the gist of what a person with an eating disorder has.

Pre-alcoholic definitely but she is in college and a bunch of people who drink in college could be considered the same.

It very well could just be the stress of being an adult in the real world and not exactly knowing what to do or having the right control of the situation.

No offense to anyone just my thoughts.
 
PhiercePhi said:
Okay well if we are going into the concept of eating disorders... which one are you talking about bulimia or anorexia nervosa? I had an eating disorder for 10 years then got some help. A lot of these issues can be due to a past circumstance towards them. It's primarly a control issue you feel like you have the power.
If that was the case, having an eating disorder is something that in my case- I kept hidden and didn't want people to know. Most of the time from what I have seen people want to be seen as the ideal of perfection and they do not want them to know about their other negative behavior.

With the comment of budding alcoholism many people with eating disorders do resort to alcohol as well so it could be likely. But from the people I have met/seen in rehab and other counseling groups. She doesn't really fit the gist of what a person with an eating disorder has.

Pre-alcoholic definitely but she is in college and a bunch of people who drink in college could be considered the same.

It very well could just be the stress of being an adult in the real world and not exactly knowing what to do or having the right control of the situation.

No offense to anyone just my thoughts.
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She left with an ample supply of alcohol, but IIRC there was no food found in her car. What do you make of that?
 
gnomony said:
She left with an ample supply of alcohol, but IIRC there was no food found in her car. What do you make of that?
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Good point - perhaps she got the booze where she knew it was cheaper and available, figuring she could always find a place to get something to eat.
OR - no food, the alcohol would work faster and quicker...
Just can't get inside her mind...
 
PhiercePhi said:
Okay well if we are going into the concept of eating disorders... which one are you talking about bulimia or anorexia nervosa? I had an eating disorder for 10 years then got some help. A lot of these issues can be due to a past circumstance towards them. It's primarly a control issue you feel like you have the power.
If that was the case, having an eating disorder is something that in my case- I kept hidden and didn't want people to know. Most of the time from what I have seen people want to be seen as the ideal of perfection and they do not want them to know about their other negative behavior.

With the comment of budding alcoholism many people with eating disorders do resort to alcohol as well so it could be likely. But from the people I have met/seen in rehab and other counseling groups. She doesn't really fit the gist of what a person with an eating disorder has.

Pre-alcoholic definitely but she is in college and a bunch of people who drink in college could be considered the same.

It very well could just be the stress of being an adult in the real world and not exactly knowing what to do or having the right control of the situation.

No offense to anyone just my thoughts.
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I can't say she did have an eating disorder, but it seems like it to me. All the other stuff before her accident in NH fits. The shame makes one act secretive. I'd say she had bulimia--not anorexia . The receipt Renner posted was for about $17., which to me seems like a lot of food for a pizza joint. It isn't ridiculously high, but I would think a sub sandwich or a small pizza would be cheaper than $15. Maybe the place is expensive . . . .
 
gnomony said:
She left with an ample supply of alcohol, but IIRC there was no food found in her car. What do you make of that?
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She did buy food. There was mention of snacks in the media articles. I'm not sure if they were still in the car or the items were listed on receipts found in the car.
 
Who knows really? Except Maura. Maybe her roommate? I am not going to knock the eating disorder thing off just because of prior experience but a lot of the time. If I were to drink, I would eat a bunch because I knew I would drink a bunch later and it would be coming right back up.

I just hope we all can figure something out. Whether she was an alcoholic, a bulimic or just depressed she needs justice.
 
If Renner's information about the credit card number theft is correct, I think the information may indicate a good answer to the question of why Maura was packed up, why she went north instead of going to class, and why she had certain items in her car. Maura may have decided to leave school, either because she was embarrassed or because nursing was a door that might be closed to her. Either way, she was done with that school. So she has to figure out what to do next. I propose that she decided to quit school and get a job in the mountains. She had just wrecked her dad's car and didn't want to get into something that would further upset him, so she decided to go north, look for a job as a waitress, etc., and maybe a place to live. (The attempted trip to his motel room might have been intended to tell her father about her situation but the wreck made talking about theft and arrest and a record much harder to do.) If she went north and got a job, she could present her decision as a fait accompli. She got her room packed up and ready to go, and put stuff important to her in the car. She might have put the books in the car to sell later (no need to pack them) or to study if her job search came to nothing.

This scenario would even explain why we (the public) haven't heard about someone in NH or Vt that she planned to meet as well as why she had the stuff she had with her. She might have hoped to run into aquaintances up there but the trip was about starting over.

Then the second accident happens and she CAN'T be found at another accident scene with alcohol in the car (since the spilled liquid is going to raise questions) or in her system (either way). So she has to walk out of there. In that moment, she had to have lots of concern about how another incident would impact the credit card situation.

None of that tells us what happened once she decided to leave the car. If she ran, in unfamiliar territory and snowy roads in the dark, she might be able to do 7-8 minute miles: walking, probably 10-15 minute miles. So in 15 minutes, she might have 1-2 miles up the road. The question is--how far would she have to go to get to a public place for warmth, food, shelter? Is there a turn that might have taken the possibility of shelter out of the equation and made her more vulnerable to hypothermia or exposure? And of course, did she roll the dice and risk taking a ride? If Renner's information is correct, it resolves, I think, a lot of the mystery of Maura's trip. And we can focus on where she went once she left the car.
 
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