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  1. #1

    Ken's New Info - Gabe Hidden/No Adoption - **NO DISCUSSION**

    Ken's New Info on What Happened to Gabe
    Gabe is being Hidden - There is No Adoption
    **No Discussion**


    There's a lot of interest in the new information released via PI Ken Gamble regarding what happened to Gabriel Johnson.

    This thread is to record the known facts and details of this new information for easy reference.

    This is no-discussion list type reference thread. Please continue to use the other threads for discussion purposes.

    Please note that this thread is to record only those parts of the new information directly related to what happened to Gabe, not other new information that was published, for example, that Elizabeth was drinking while in San Antonio.


    Synopsis of the new information/Ken's theory:

    Ken revealed that someone (referred to in news interviews and articles as a 'third party') suggested to Elizabeth during her week with Gabe in San Antonio that she place Gabe into hiding. Elizabeth decided to do that.

    The third party arranged for a couple to get Gabe from Elizabeth at Raymond Rimkus park on the morning of December 27 at 10am.

    The third party gave Elizabeth directions to the park, along with a code word the couple would use to identify themselves, both of which Elizabeth recorded in what is being referred to as a 'journal'.

    Elizabeth traveled to the park with Gabe. The couple identified themselves with the designated code word, and Elizabeth handed off Gabe to the couple.
    Last edited by BeanE; 04-15-2010 at 10:20 AM.

  2. #2

    Related news articles

    * Dad wins sole custody of missing 'Baby Gabriel'
    East Valley Tribune - March 26, 2010 - 3:20PM

    http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/152240


    * Private investigator says Baby Gabriel's mom kept journal
    WOAI - ‎Mar 31, 2010‎

    Article: http://www.woai.com/news/local/story...LRaqbvvXw.cspx

    Video (Search for Baby Gabriel): http://www.woai.com/mediacenter/loca...net&navCatId=5


    * Private Eye Finds Park Where Gabriel Was Given Up
    MyFox Phoenix - ‎Mar 31, 2010‎

    Article including video: http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news...on_case_033110


    * New Details in Baby Gabriel Case
    myFOXPhoenix.com - Wednesday, March 31 2010, 08:47 AM CDT

    Video (different from above video): http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroo...vid_1671.shtml


    * PI: Missing Baby Gabriel Johnson Still Alive
    Private Investigator Says He Believes Mother's Handwritten Journals
    KSAT 12 - POSTED: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 - UPDATED: 12:41 pm CDT April 1, 2010

    Article: http://www.ksat.com/news/23020125/detail.html

    Video: http://www.ksat.com/video/23020105/index.html


    * Mom's diary shows she was drunk, depressed, when Baby Gabriel was given to couple in Leon Valley Park
    PI says indications are Gabriel is still alive
    WOAI - Thursday, April 1, 2010

    Article (no video): http://radio.woai.com/cc-common/news...rticle=6940800


    * PI believes Baby Gabriel is alive
    KTAR.com - ‎Apr 1, 2010‎

    Article (No video): http://ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=1279896



    * Missing Baby Gabriel Still Alive, PI Says
    POSTED: 1:49 pm MST April 1, 2010
    UPDATED: 2:50 pm MST April 1, 2010

    Article (no video): http://www.kpho.com/news/23028193/detail.html



    * New Leads Emerge In Baby Gabriel Case
    KPHO Phoenix - Pat McReynolds - ‎Apr 2, 2010‎

    Article: http://www.kpho.com/news/23032430/detail.html

    Video: Baby Gabriel's Dad: We Will Find Him
    http://www.kpho.com/video/23034873/index.html

    Raw Video: Baby Gabriel Is Alive, PI Says (7:08 minute video)
    Private investigator Ken Gamble, who is trying to find missing baby Gabriel Johnson, says the boy was probably given to a couple in a San Antonio park.
    http://www.kpho.com/video/23026367/index.html


    * Baby Gabriel: Logan McQueary talks about the search for his son
    AZfamily.com Posted on April 8, 2010 at 7:34 AM

    Article: http://www.azfamily.com/video/featur...-90215187.html

    Video: http://www.azfamily.com/video/?id=90215187&sec=528732
    Last edited by BeanE; 04-12-2010 at 11:44 AM.

  3. #3
    Related discussion thread that was begun on March 26 here:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98949"]Theory: EJ gave Gabe to someone she entrusted who has him in hiding[/ame]



    Related discussion thread specific to the details of the hand-off at the park here:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99299"]Hand off of Gabriel at Raymond Rimkus Park[/ame]



    Related thread discussing who the candidates might be for the third party here:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99397"]Who is the Third Party that Arranged Gabe's Handoff?[/ame]



    Related thread for discussing the theory of Tammi Smith as the third party here:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99430"]Theory: Tammi as the Third Party to put Gabe in hiding w/couple[/ame]


    BeanE
    Last edited by BeanE; 04-09-2010 at 09:20 AM.

  4. #4

    Quote

    There's some confusion being caused by people being being misquoted. Let's start pulling some of the important direct quotes from the news articles and videos, so we can see exactly what it really is that people said.

    Please link the article or video, the date of the article/vidoe, and note the person's name if not given.

    Here's one that has been confused as Logan saying they know for a fact who has Gabe and/or where he is:

    New Leads Emerge In Baby Gabriel Case
    Elizabeth Johnson Kept Journal While On Run
    KPHO.com
    POSTED: 11:02 pm MST April 1, 2010
    UPDATED: 9:49 am MST April 2, 2010

    I know he’s out there and he’s alive and he got handed off to a couple and we pretty much believe we know who they are,” said McQueary.
    Logan McQueary
    POSTED: 11:02 pm MST April 1, 2010
    UPDATED: 9:49 am MST April 2, 2010
    http://www.kpho.com/news/23032430/detail.html
    Last edited by BeanE; 04-11-2010 at 09:24 AM.

  5. #5

    Quote

    Some people seem to perceive what Logan says below in this video to be new or different information regarding there being no illegal adoption. It's not. Ken Gamble the PI announced this back on March 26 in the second interview below.

    Logan's Interview:

    Baby Gabriel: Logan McQueary talks about the search for his son
    AZfamily.com Posted on April 8, 2010 at 7:34 AM

    Article: http://www.azfamily.com/video/featur...-90215187.html

    Video: http://www.azfamily.com/video/?id=90215187&sec=528732

    Transcribed from video:

    Reporter: A lot of people suspect that the baby was illegally adopted. Is that kind of your hunch based on what you've learned in the past month or two.

    Logan: We have a lot of different things that we're working on right now. I think we're kind of leaning away from that.

    Reporter: Leaning away from that and maybe thinking what?

    Logan: Right now I can't say that.


    Ken's interview:

    Dad wins sole custody of missing 'Baby Gabriel'
    East Valley Tribune - March 26, 2010 - 3:20PM

    Private investigator Ken Gamble, who is working with the McQuearys in the search for Gabriel, said there is no evidence indicating that Johnson sold Gabriel in an underground adoption, but said there are indications she gave him to someone she entrusted who has the boy in hiding.

    http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/152240

  6. #6
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    P.I Gamble believes EJ's initial plan was to start over in San Antonio, but something happened 12/23-24 that caused her to quickly change her plan and put Gabe into hiding and flee.


    I'll have to look for a link . . .


    ETA: http://radio.woai.com/cc-common/news...rticle=6940800
    Last edited by YellowSubmarine; 04-09-2010 at 11:08 AM.
    100 years from now, it won't matter what kind of car you drove or how big your house was. What will matter is that you were important in the eyes of a child.


  7. #7

    Quotes from articles

    I went through and pulled the quotes from Ken and a few from Logan from the articles. The videos will take longer, because they need to be transcribed. I'd sure appreciate help with that

    Please note that I'm concentrating on direct quotes from Ken, rather than what reporters say that Ken or Logan said. Sometimes reporters make mistakes, sometimes they use a different word or phrase that changes the essence or meaning of what the person said, sometimes when you read the article and then listen to what the person said in the video it's different. So I'm trying to concentrate on quotes, to build a ready reference here of what Ken actually said.

    "We have been able to confirm through the investigation so far that this is the park where Elizabeth handed the baby to a couple," said Gamble.

    "That information is supported by her own handwritten notes in her journal. She wrote down directions to the park...she arrived..the couple was already sitting in the park so we now know they were sitting at one of those tables..they immediately got up and they greeted her."

    Private Eye Finds Park Where Gabriel Was Given Up
    http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news...on_case_033110


    "She also wrote down directions to this park in her journal," said Gamble. "And that is a key piece of evidence because it shows her story about coming to the park is credible. You can't get any better evidence than handwritten notes made by herself."

    "I was able to see the handwritten notes and it's very compelling, because it tells the story of what she did when she was down here," said Gamble. "It gives details about her contacting women's shelters, crisis centers."

    "We have good reason to believe the baby is alive and again we can't say why at this point, but we have very good reason to believe that the baby is being cared for by persons that are not known at this time," said Gamble.

    PI: Missing Baby Gabriel Johnson Still Alive
    http://www.ksat.com/news/23020125/detail.html


    "There were some entries in the journal which would suggest she had been drinking," Ken Gamble says. "There were some cryptic notes cowards the end of the journal which she had written, making reference to the death of her parents. She was very distraught."

    "In the first few days, there was a lot of evidence that she was actually trying to set herself up down here. She was contacting women's refuges and shelters and crisis centers. And then something changed around about December 23, December 24. She was backed into a corner and she thought there was there was nothing else she could do but put the baby into hiding and someone gave her that opportunity."

    "The male was six feet tall, he had short, dark brown hair, and he was of a medium build, wearing a white polo shirt, the female had long blond hair," Gamble told 1200 WOAI news.

    "Someone may have seen something on that day, it was just a couple of days after Christmas, it was a busy time, and you would think that somebody would have seen something," he says.

    Mom's diary shows she was drunk, depressed, when Baby Gabriel was given to couple in Leon Valley Park
    http://radio.woai.com/cc-common/news...rticle=6940800


    "I was able to see the hand-written notes," said Ken Gamble, an investigator hired by the missing boy's father, Logan McQueary.

    He said Elizabeth Johnson's journal "is very compelling because it tells the story of what she did when she was down here (in San Antonio). It gives details about her contacting women's shelters, crisis centers."

    "She wrote down directions to this park in her journal," Gamble said. "And that is a key piece of evidence because it shows her story about coming to the park is actually credible. You can't get any better evidence than hand-written, contemporaneous notes made by herself."

    PI believes Baby Gabriel is alive
    http://ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=1279896


    “I know he’s out there and he’s alive and he got handed off to a couple and we pretty much believe we know who they are,” said McQueary.

    “We’re really close. Closer than we’ve ever been,” said McQueary.

    New Leads Emerge In Baby Gabriel Case
    http://www.kpho.com/news/23032430/detail.html
    Last edited by BeanE; 04-11-2010 at 10:30 AM.

  8. #8
    If anyone comes across a quote of Ken saying that Elizabeth contacted 'domestic violence' shelters, could you please link it in?

    So far, I haven't found Ken saying 'domestic violence' in regards to the types of organizations Elizabeth contacted.

    This is a good example of why I like direct quotes.

  9. #9
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    "Somebody gave her the confidence to come to this park and give that baby away."

    "That information is supported by her own handwritten notes in her journal"

    Gamble believes Johnson handed her baby to strangers because she trusted the third party who arranged the meeting for her.


    Video link:
    http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news...on_case_033110
    100 years from now, it won't matter what kind of car you drove or how big your house was. What will matter is that you were important in the eyes of a child.


  10. #10
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    Transcription

    Raw Video: Baby Gabriel is Alive, PI Says

    Reporter: The baby Gabriel case.

    Ken Gamble: Ah well, the most important thing is that we have identified the park, the actual park, where the baby was given away, that’s this park right here. It was initially falsely reported in the media about the park and it’s important to let the public know that this is actually the park where it happened because somebody might have seen something and there’s quite a lot of.. There’s a lot of evidence to confirm that this was the park.

    Reporter: The media had the wrong park initially?

    Ken Gamble: Yeah, that’s correct.

    Reporter: They said a different .. a different park not this park?

    Ken Gamble: That’s correct, yeah and that was never corrected by the police because the police weren’t willing to release any information. I don’t know why.

    Reporter: Okay.

    Ken Gamble: But a

    Reporter: And ah so your belief is Gabriel’s alive?

    Ken Gamble: Yeah, I do believe he’s alive because I do believe the meeting here occurred. I believe that a third party was involved and this is what the evidence is suggesting that a third party was involved, that somebody directed Elizabeth to come to this park and to meet the couple and she clearly had no communication with this couple. No telephone communication. So she was directed by a third party to come here and hand the baby over to somebody who she thought was going to take care of the baby.

    Reporter: What did she get in return?

    Ken Gamble: Well, she got the opportunity to run away. She wanted to run away, she wanted to hide. She was very emotional. She was a broken person at that point. She knew the police were chasing her. She was basically backed into a corner.

    Reporter: So this family could have flown in from anywhere?

    Ken Gamble: That’s correct. They could have. I doubt that they flew in because they would have had to take the baby and gone through an airport. They would have been photographed. So, it’s very unlikely they would have flown in. They could have flown in and rented a car, but it’s more likely they drove in from possibly, from out of state. I don’t believe that they were locals, but there is a chance that they were local, but I think it’s much more likely that they came from out of state.

    Reporter: So, how confident are you that you will ever find Gabriel?

    Ken Gamble: Well, I think that we haven’t finished the investigation yet and still a lot of information that we’re waiting on. We’re waiting on records to come in. We’re waiting on information to come by subpoena and once that information has been received and completely analyzed it should really tell the story. So, I’m very confident that we can find out who was involved and hopefully will be able to find the baby.

    Reporter: And Logan wants to move here to San Antonio. Is that….?

    Ken Gamble: Well he, he wanted to move here because, because basically he felt that he should be down here where the search is taking place, but over the past few weeks we’ve had information that suggests that this may not be where Gabriel is hiding. So, so we believe he was taken out of state.

    Reporter: Is it possible this family that took him is unaware that he is baby Gabriel and they thought it was a legitimate adoption and transaction?

    Ken Gamble: No, I think that is very unlikely. There was no documents exchanged, contrary to what Elizabeth first said that there was a signing a document. She clearly was giving false information in the beginning to protect that, that third party that set the thing up. So, you know, it’s very unlikely the couple don’t know what’s going on. I think that they, they just have very strong beliefs about the child and they believe that they’ve done the right thing and they also know they are in a lot of trouble, you know if they hand this baby back at this time, but they need to, they really need to try to work out a way to return this baby safely.

    Reporter: What would you want them to know if they’re listening or watching?

    Ken Gamble: Just that they need to contact law enforcement or get in contact with Logan’s family or with their agency. They need to be able to arrange to bring the baby home. You know, and that will minimize the chances of those people going to jail.

    Reporter: Be kind of hard to keep that lie up for life?

    Ken Gamble: Well, That’s exactly right. Someone out there knows. Someone is a neighbor of these people. Someone must realize these people have taken in a baby recently. They probably changed Gabriel’s name, but I think that the people are very well aware that there’s a search going. This is a criminal matter and they need to bring this baby home.

    Reporter: And, as far as Elizabeth, She should be in prison for life. What are the charges, I mean is it kidnapping..?

    Ken Gamble: Well, there is kidnapping , custodial interference and child abuse, but you know, I think that if , if the baby is found and if it’s proven that this couple did take him and that her story is correct, then I’m sure that her sentence would be greatly reduced and you know she was betrayed, which we believe she was, she was betrayed by somebody and if she was set up to hand this baby to someone that she thought was going to take care of the baby then she doesn’t deserve to be in prison for 20 years.

    Reporter: She‘s reneged that she killed the baby. She is not saying that anymore?

    Ken Gamble: No, she has only ever said that in the text messages. She said that she sent those text messages to upset Logan at the time because of her emotional state and she’s never, she’s never repeated those statements. So, it’s because of her statements and also statements on recorded telephone calls that she was facing a possibility of a murder charge.

    Reporter: Is she saying she gave the baby to another couple now? Or no?

    Ken Gamble: Yeah, she is yeah.

    Reporter: She just not saying who, names or anything like that?

    Ken Gamble: She has made full admissions to the police and at this stage some of those, some of that information we can’t discuss because it’s still under investigation, but she has made full admissions.

    Reporter: Okay, anything that you would like to add?

    Ken Gamble: No, I don’t think so.

    Reporter: And, this park is important because December 27th if you were in the area…

    Ken Gamble: Yes, this park is very important because on December 27th around about 10am the meeting took place somewhere on one of these park benches, so anybody in this area that was in the park at the time that may have seen a couple, a blonde female, a tall dark headed man meeting with a young blond lady with a baby should come forward. They may have seen the couple get into a vehicle. Of course, if we had a vehicle description it would be very helpful to the investigation.

    Reporter: Anything… Thank you very much.
    Last edited by Litlred; 04-12-2010 at 03:42 AM. Reason: typo


  11. #11
    March 31 Fox San Antonio video Ken Gamble Hand Off

    Ken's quotes only


    "Someone must have seen something."

    "We've been able to confirm through the investigation so far that this is the park where Elizabeth handed the baby to the couple."

    "That information is supported by her own handwritten notes in her journal. She wrote directions down to the park."

    "She arrived. The couple were already sitting in the park. So we assume they were sitting at one of these tables. And they immediately got up and they greeted her. They said something to her which we're not revealing at this point to identify themselves."

    "Somebody gave her the confidence to come to this park and give that baby away."

    "Someone might just have witnessed this thing and they don't realize what they saw. So it's very important for the public to know that this is the actual park where it happened. Because all these people that live around here - somebody might have seen something."

    "They will be identified. And It's only a matter of time. The truth will come out. They can either come forward or they have to wait until the police kick their door down. Because they will be identified. That I can assure you."

    http://www.foxsanantonio.com/newsroo...vid_1671.shtml
    Last edited by BeanE; 04-18-2010 at 12:10 PM.



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