Singing Girl in Headphones

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Billylee

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We talked so much about this picture in the original thread because of all the stuff in the background, trying to date it, etc., that I thought for sure we had a thread for this girl already, but I can't find one, so if there is one please merge for me Mods.

http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/01431.jpg

I just wanted to point out that when I enlarged this picture this girl looks to me like she has some serious arthritis issues or something going on with her left hand.
Yes?
 
I'm not absolutely certain that this is a girl. Her/his expression is distorting her/his face so much, I keep flip-flopping. Guys and girls both wore that hairstyle back then.
 
Bargle said:
I'm not absolutely certain that this is a girl. Her/his expression is distorting her/his face so much, I keep flip-flopping. Guys and girls both wore that hairstyle back then.
Click to expand...

I'm going with it being a girl.
The choker collar though worn by some boys, was still overwhelmingly a female thing, and the ring on the left hand. Looks like there might be breasts as well.
The only boyish thing is the eyebrows really.
Looks pretty young, probably not into plucking.
May be our backbender, since folks are not positive of the gender because of hair underarm, and the eyebrows but because of it being cut off where it is and they think it might be female, due to the hair length I am thinking this is possible.
 
I recognized another album cover, don't think this one was called out before. It's another Jefferson Airplane LP, After Bathing At Baxters (1967), about 6 discs to the left of the Cream LP. It's the one that looks like a Y-shaped twig on a white background, under a blue top band.

For what it's worth, I think the kid in blue denim is a boy--looks it, and that kind of unselfconscious "rock" move is something a teenage girl would be unlikely to do, especially when a cute stranger was taking photos.
 
The denim shirt buttons on the side of a woman's blouse. The jeans also have the zipper fly on the side of women's clothing.
 
Mensch said:
The denim shirt buttons on the side of a woman's blouse. The jeans also have the zipper fly on the side of women's clothing.
Click to expand...
Good catch on the buttons. Yeah, that pushes it towards being a girl.
 
ON the Nancy grace site, there are 4 photos of this room.
3 of the photos have this girl shown here, and the other is a different girl but in the same room.
​
 
Billylee said:
We talked so much about this picture in the original thread because of all the stuff in the background, trying to date it, etc., that I thought for sure we had a thread for this girl already, but I can't find one, so if there is one please merge for me Mods.

http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/01431.jpg

I just wanted to point out that when I enlarged this picture this girl looks to me like she has some serious arthritis issues or something going on with her left hand.
Yes?
Click to expand...
Billy, yes there is another thread in relation to this picture and others

Different girls, Same room. (Blue carpet, radio, records & Headphones) - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Hope this helps
 
For cross-reference purposes: I posted a wild hunch involving this girl on the long-hair fur-coat woman thread.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Girl with dark long hair and fur coat.


The gist is that maybe this girl is that woman 6 years earlier, about 1971. Bonus W.A.G. is that both of them are Ellen Hover.

One point is that the Huntington Beach and other West Coast PDs may not have had any pictures (or very good ones) of the East Coast victims Hover or Cornelia Crilley before they released the locker pics. (They may also have missed 1971 victim Crilley as the blonde headphone girl in the same apartment. I posted a side-by-side for her on that thread.)

Alcala apparently used the alias "John Berger" with Hover in 1977 in New York. She left that name as the last entry in her date book. Alcala had used that name in 1971 as a student in New York and also as a camp counselor in New England. John Berger was identified as Most Wanted List fugitive Rodney Alcala, arrested for the earlier Tali S. crimes, whipped back to CA, tried, convicted and imprisoned for a spell.

I can't imagine why he would use "John Berger" again in New York in 1977 unless he ran into someone who already knew him by that name.
 
The match with Fur Coat Woman is looking less likely to me against new info, but try this on:

SingerHover.jpg
 
Isn't that Ellen Hover on the right? Wasn't Alcala just indicted with her murder a day or two ago in New York? Wasn't singing girl in his California apartment? I don't understand what you are trying to say about this? Ellen Hovers case apparently has already been investigated and now will go to the next step in getting Alcala convicted of it.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you are saying here.
 
To me these women look nothing alike. I believe there is another picture of "singer girl" with her eyes open which will show she does not look like Ellen Hoover at all. Alcala indicted for 2 more murders. Oh, goody. That means he will have more computers to play with and go on crime forum sites with. And I guess this means it will give him a long reprieve from the electric chair.
 
I just looked it up and it looks like California has the gas chamber (though not used anymore) and lethal injection.
 
norest4thewicked said:
Isn't that Ellen Hover on the right? Wasn't Alcala just indicted with her murder a day or two ago in New York? Wasn't singing girl in his California apartment? I don't understand what you are trying to say about this? Ellen Hovers case apparently has already been investigated and now will go to the next step in getting Alcala convicted of it.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you are saying here.
Click to expand...

Singing Girl appears to be in Alcala's New York aparment circa 1971, about the time of the Crilley murder and when Hover would have been 17 years old.

Here's what I'm postulating:

1) In 1971 fugitive Alcala is studying in New York under the name John Berger and living by most reports the swinging bachelor life. He is wanted in CA for the Tali S. attack.

2) Hover, 17 years old, is photographed with him in his apartment. She's Singing Girl. Whether anyone else is there with them is irrelevant. Whatever happened in 1971, she gets away from there just fine in her own mind and still trusts John Berger.

3) Cornelia Crilley is murdered by Alcala / Berger and he leaves town for a camp counselor job in the New England boonies.

4) The FBI puts fugitive Alcala on its Most Wanted List and John Berger is blown as being Alcala. He is arrested and returned to CA to be convicted and serve time.

5) In 1977 he obtains permission to visit family in New York and flies back across the country. There is no reason to think he would be deliberately using the "John Berger" alias at this time. The police know about John Berger being Alcala. However ...

6) In New York, he hears "John Berger!! Is that YOU???" Now he has two choices. He can say, "Well, actually, my real name is Rodney Alcala. I used to be known here as John Berger ... uhhh ... because ..." But he actually says, "Oh! Hey! Hi, Ellen!" She agrees to do a modeling shoot for him.

7) She writes the name "John Berger" in her date book.

And the rest is history.
 
Redbird said:
To me these women look nothing alike.
Click to expand...

The parallels are overwhelming for me. But I'm getting used to the idea that other people are not going to see what I see.

I believe there is another picture of "singer girl" with her eyes open which will show she does not look like Ellen Hoover at all.
Click to expand...

We need that on this thread. First I've heard of it.

Alcala indicted for 2 more murders. Oh, goody. That means he will have more computers to play with and go on crime forum sites with. And I guess this means it will give him a long reprieve from the electric chair.
Click to expand...
I hope not. I want the answers to who these people are and what happened, but I also want absolutely no deals. Period. Last I heard before the news of this indictment, New York was happy with him being on death row in CA and did not plan to ask for extradition for a trial. I hope that's still true.
 
Redbird said:
To me these women look nothing alike. I believe there is another picture of "singer girl" with her eyes open which will show she does not look like Ellen Hoover at all. Alcala indicted for 2 more murders. Oh, goody. That means he will have more computers to play with and go on crime forum sites with. And I guess this means it will give him a long reprieve from the electric chair.
Click to expand...

I think they look totally alike. Where's the other pic??? I don't remember it. TIA! :hug:
 
I may be wrong. I will look through all the pictures tomorrow and see if I can find it. Too tired tonight.
 
:+:MrTT:+: said:
ON the Nancy grace site, there are 4 photos of this room.
3 of the photos have this girl shown here, and the other is a different girl but in the same room.
​
Click to expand...

Just noticed this. If MrTT is correct there must be 2 other pictures.
 
I still think that Singing Girl is in the CA apartment, while Hover (matched above) was in New York. I think the girls look similar, but there are differences. But, if Hover was in NY and Singing Girl was in CA, that wouldn't be a possibility. Also, since he was indicted for Hovers murder this past week, this seems to be a moot point.

Singing girl might well have been murdered by him and, if so, it would be great to see the photos of her that are not with her face distorted.
 
I have looked through 3 sets of photos and what I have come up with is I think both :+:MrTT:+: and I are confusing singer girl with 2 pictures of another girl wearing headphones and in the same location of the same apartment (which I believe is the New York apartment). The two other pictures for this other girl are :
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00403.jpg
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00443.jpg

So I was mistaken about there being two pictures of singer girl. Looking closely at the girl singing, I think she looks quite small, with a small face, and small features (comparing her to the other girl sitting with her). To me Ellen Hoover has a wider face with more pronounced cheekbones. Larger more widely spaced eyes. Also eyebrows are more widely spaced, more arched, and thicker. Also Ellen Hoover is very pretty. Singer girl not as much. (This is all subjective, of course)

Somewhere we have a thread that compares pictures to the same setting singer girl is in, I found it earlier this morning and now I have lost it. I think it was decided that these pictures were probably taken in New York since there is a Village Voice on the floor and all seem to be wearing winter clothes. Also there was some discussion of the Martin's paint box. Can anybody find it?
 
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