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Thread: 2009.02.27 - Is there evidence of sloppy police work?

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    2009.02.27 - Is there evidence of sloppy police work?

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,501784,00.html


    Detectives in Florida looking for a missing 5-year-old girl sorted through tons of trash in a dumpster near the family home after cadaver dogs picked up a scent, but turned up no new evidence.

    Investigators from the Putnam County Sheriff's Office spent several hours Thursday evening going through the garbage piece by piece in their search for Haleigh Cummings, Capt. Dick Schauland said in a news release.

    The dumpster search was prompted by three cadaver dogs that apparently picked up a scent at the receptacle, according to Schauland.

    Haleigh vanished from her bedroom about three weeks ago.

    I can't believe this took 3 weeks to uncover. I'm appalled that this dumpster sat there this long without anyone checking it out. I've never seen another case where dumpsters weren't checked first thing!
    Last edited by Maryann123; 04-11-2010 at 07:20 PM.

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    Also, a Putnam County sheriff's deputy on Wednesday removed the back door of the Cummings home -- the same door that was found propped open the night the girl disappeared. Officials would not comment on why the door was taken, WJXT-TV reported

    .http://www.clickorlando.com/news/18915206/detail.html


    This was a full month after Haleigh's disappearance

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    Almost every report from Shauland and Greenwood is contrary to what we know, or so it appears. They also have not retracted the information. For my own sanity, I am going to say I hope and pray that the information reported, and if it was misinformation, was done to help find Haleigh.

    It appears they did not want the Public's assistance, that is clear....with the exception being if anyone had seen misty that night.
    Last edited by Whisperer; 04-11-2010 at 07:50 PM.

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    What freaked me out was when it was reported that LE told the 2 families to not communicate. Now, excuse me, but how was that expected to help?
    Last edited by dodie20; 04-11-2010 at 08:13 PM.

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    If one cadaver dog hit on the dumpster, it could be a fluke. But if 3 dogs hit on it........there must have been a dead body in there! Too bad they didn't search it on the early morning hours of the 10th!

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    reading one of those articles, I see where Misty said the door was unlocked. But later, I remember Ron insisting that it was. Wouldn't Misty be the one to know? & why in the world would Ron insist on refuting that? which story did LE go with?

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    I guess we can forget about break and work schedules! That could have been done in a couple of minutes. How far away was the dumpster?

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    IMHO.. Yes...Either that or there is BIG hink going on with LE in Putnam County...

    And speaking of that door,,, If I'm not mistaken the door they took a month later was even reported missing at some point..
    LE also stated sometime back in June (at their ONE and ONLY round table meeting that I am aware of) that a room full of evidence was yet to be processed.. And the list goes on...All just my opinion..

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    I'm just terribly let down over finding this dumpster search took place so long after the fact. I had no idea!

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    After Ron and Misty were arrested for drug trafficing..FDLE Officer Joliecoeur taped a video message of Ron and took it to Misty..This bothers me more each day. They put them in seperate jails and yet tape a message..I am so confused by this.

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    You know, all this time I've focused on the dumpster they searched. But now, for whatever reason, I'm taking this statement:
    The dumpster search was prompted by three cadaver dogs that apparently picked up a scent at the receptacle, according to Schauland.

    As though to say "the search of THIS dumpster was prompted by three cadaver dogs that apparently picked up a scent at the receptacle AT THE MOTOR HOME...."

    We know that LE held the house for quite awhile, and during that time, they brought dogs to the MH. What's to say that Haleigh wasn't put first into the dumpster at the house and LE thought perhaps they'd best also check the dumpster to see if she'd ever been there?

    In any case, I'd say that LE shows a remarkable tenacity to hold this case very close to their vest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maryann123 View Post
    If one cadaver dog hit on the dumpster, it could be a fluke. But if 3 dogs hit on it........there must have been a dead body in there! Too bad they didn't search it on the early morning hours of the 10th!
    I suspect the body was removed from the dumpster by the time the 911 call was made... I do believe it was placed there in the early evening though and was there for more than six hours... And IMHO there is also a BIG possibility either Tommy, Timmy or Jo (maybe all three) may have helped put Haleigh there or at least had knowledge she had been put there until Ron and the Cummings could make other plans.. That could very well be their involvement....JMO
    Last edited by Emeralgem; 04-11-2010 at 08:25 PM. Reason: correct spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by debs View Post
    You know, all this time I've focused on the dumpster they searched. But now, for whatever reason, I'm taking this statement:
    The dumpster search was prompted by three cadaver dogs that apparently picked up a scent at the receptacle, according to Schauland.

    As though to say "the search of THIS dumpster was prompted by three cadaver dogs that apparently picked up a scent at the receptacle AT THE MOTOR HOME...."

    We know that LE held the house for quite awhile, and during that time, they brought dogs to the MH. What's to say that Haleigh wasn't put first into the dumpster at the house and LE thought perhaps they'd best also check the dumpster to see if she'd ever been there?

    In any case, I'd say that LE shows a remarkable tenacity to hold this case very close to their vest.
    ITA..Just wish I knew the reason WHY.. JMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emeralgem View Post
    I suspect the body was removed from the dumpster by the time the 911 call was made... I do believe it was placed there in the early evening though and was there for more than six hours... And IMHO there is also a BIG possibility either Tommy, Timmy or Jo (maybe all three) may have helped put Haleigh there or at least had knowledge she had been put there until Ron and the Cummings could make other plans.. That could very well be their involvement....JMO

    If Tommy fails the LDT I'm on-board with you.

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    I haven't kept up with this case like I'd like to, so if I missed something please let me know.

    What have we learned from LE since beginning? What have they done besides searches? It appears that when a search was done, it was done when the "players" were preoccupied with other things going on.

    What exactly have we learned as fact from LE?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpian View Post
    I haven't kept up with this case like I'd like to, so if I missed something please let me know.

    What have we learned from LE since beginning? What have they done besides searches? It appears that when a search was done, it was done when the "players" were preoccupied with other things going on.

    What exactly have we learned as fact from LE?
    What we have learned from LE is that they cannot, will not, or are afraid to get the job done. I have never seen anything so messed up (except for the JBR case).

    For this case not to have been solved a long time ago makes be believe that a lot of the higher ups down there have something to hide. What a slap in the face for little Haleigh and to all society in general.
    Last edited by 4Jacy; 04-12-2010 at 01:43 AM.

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    I believe I read a report awhile back that the cadaver dogs were not specifically trained for scenting dead bodies, they were cross-trained dogs, which means, they would also hit on blood or body fluids. We had a dog trainer here a couple months ago that gave us a lot of helpful information about various search dogs and how they are trained.

    One of the mistakes made that first night was the way the blankets/bedding were spread out on the ramp for the search dogs to scent. IMO, it would have been more helpful for them to use a piece of Haleigh's clothing, a shoe or even a hairbrush.

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    LE should have given Joe and Chelsea polygraphs. Apparently Timmy took one and failed and because they were all staying at the same house Monday evening, all three should take LDT's. Is the reason why they haven't taken a LDT is because they haven't been charged with a crime? I think there are reasonable grounds to give Joe and Chelsea a polygraph test. LE cleared Joe without giving him a polygraph and based on what I have heard from Hank Sr and Misty, LE haven't done an adequate job of investigating Joe or D Snodgrass for that matter.
    Last edited by Crosby87; 04-12-2010 at 09:23 AM. Reason: add comment about Timmy failing LDT

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    Did Tommy say that Timmy failed a LD in this case - or just failed one at some time? Since Timmy was in trouble at some other time, is it possible that is what Tommy meant?
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    Perhaps there are those that question what police tactics were up to this point but when they reveal what happened to Haleigh all will be perfectly clear. We are just now learning about a LDT that Timmy took and learning that Tommy took a VSA early on. I think police knew what they were doing. I think there will be so much information released from behind the scenes that our heads will spin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lorann View Post
    Did Tommy say that Timmy failed a LD in this case - or just failed one at some time? Since Timmy was in trouble at some other time, is it possible that is what Tommy meant?
    This is the problem with the Croslins;. their statements are too general and lack details which are key to solving an investigation. An examiner would have question nearly every statement they make to make heads or tails out of what they say and this is very time consuming and exhausting work, but crucial. For example, when Ron told the Croslins if he had $35,000 he could get his daughter back, no one asked to him explain what he knew or what he was talking about.

    I'm not sure if Timmy took a LDT in connection to the HCummings case but you are right that Timmy was charged with a crime in the latter half of 2009 and I don't know if he is currently on probation. If LE can prove Misty made several phone calls to Timmy Monday evening, he plays an integral role in this case. Timmy told Misty he won't visit her because he is afraid he will get arrested which doesn’t necessarily mean he had anything to do with HaLeigh's disappearance only that because of what he has seen happen to his family members over the past year and perhaps because he is on probation, he wants to stay clear of Putnam County.

    Madjgnlaw pointed out inconsistencies in Chelsea's statements who said she was up late processing insurance papers and had just laid down when she got the call about HaLeigh being missing around 4 am; so if she was up, she knows who took the van and she has even gone so far to say she thinks she knows what happened. Misty in a jailhouse conversation with Chelsea told her to use her head when Misty told her 2 people would get hurt by her testimony. When Hank Sr told Misty he wants HaLeigh found and mentions Tommy, Misty said let’s not discuss Tommy on the phone and she averts their conversation. Come to think of it, Hank Sr has never mentioned his feelings on whether Timmy may have been involved.
    Last edited by Crosby87; 04-12-2010 at 11:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TxLady2 View Post
    I believe I read a report awhile back that the cadaver dogs were not specifically trained for scenting dead bodies, they were cross-trained dogs, which means, they would also hit on blood or body fluids. We had a dog trainer here a couple months ago that gave us a lot of helpful information about various search dogs and how they are trained.

    One of the mistakes made that first night was the way the blankets/bedding were spread out on the ramp for the search dogs to scent. IMO, it would have been more helpful for them to use a piece of Haleigh's clothing, a shoe or even a hairbrush.
    I think that another huge mistake made was when the dumpster was not secured and taken to a secured place so that professional CSI personnel could have processed the dumpster. Instead, under the glare of portable light trees, in the darkness, a front-end-loader emptied the dumpster and dumped it in piles on the ground. Guess what? LE considers the dumpster processed because they did not find a body. Imagine that.

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    Has the real reason for Tim Miller leaving Satsuma been revealed? There have been many stories that LE made it clear that he was not wanted there, so he left. If LE was reportedly thinking that Haleigh may not be alive, why didn't they support Tim Miller in his searches?

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    I have to say that I have a very high regard toward Law Enforcement in Putnam County. Having spent thousands of hours on the scanner listening to this group of hard working individuals from patrol officer on up, I know they have worked very well as a team and exhausted themselves making every effort to find Haleigh and bring her justice. You cannot even imagine unless you listen to that scanner, the enormity of the calls they receive on a daily basis some of them very serious crimes. And they are remarkable the way the Sargeants lead them as a team to assist the victims and to get the guilty behind bars. They have major crime units and crime scene techs at their disposal. And they call in helicopters and K9 teams when needed. I have heard them quickly request the assistance of higher ranking officers and their specialty teams quickly and without hesitation in many instances over the months.

    LE is investigating the disappearance of Haleigh, and possible homicide. They owe us no explanation or facts. They have issued the strongest statement that they can to assure their citizens. They do not believe this was a stranger abduction. In other words, to the parents of PC, there is no person out there going around stealing children.

    In my opinion LE has evidence, and that evidence only they know. I don't believe even the lawyers for the players, nor the players themselves know exactly what LE knows. Another great police tactic keeping people off balance. They have no obligation nor would it be good police investigative technique, to share that information with the public now. Is it frustrating. Yes. When charges come down and I do say When and not If, the Sunshine Law will kick in and we will know more.

    If there is blame, I place it where it belongs. IMO LE was misdirected and lied to, in the early stages thought they had a missing child and exhausted every effort to find Haleigh. I can only come to one conclusion now. Someone or many, do not want her to be found.

    I have heard call after call on the scanner with every single person that came into contact with Misty and Ron in the last year being pressured. The squeeze is and has been on. The arrests have been many in peripheral players. Another tactic used by LE to have the opporunity to question these people about the Haleigh case. And now LE has Ron and Misty exactly where they want them. Behind bars without a chance of being bonded for a while.

    The truth is there, I believe LE has a very good idea what that truth is. I believe they will solve this crime and hopefully bring Haleigh home to be given the dignity she deserves.

    The door taken a month later? I don't look at that as a negative but rather the continuance of their investigation. Perhaps either DNA, fingerprints or something was found after testing the door. These tests take weeks to come back many times. And so, once they believed the door was important, they went back and collected it to preserve for evidence. Crime scene investigators can't disassemble a house without good cause. Something was found IMO and they did the right thing by going back. I liken this to the multiple searches in the Caylee case. One piece of evidence leads to another clue, and when that happened LE returned to the Anthony family home. Could LE in that case have known to take the duct tape or the clothes hamper in the early stages of the investigation. NO. So they went back.

    I would guess that Putnam County has probably exhausted more money, more resources and more time in this case than any other in many many years in the county.

    That is not to say that I didn't have frustrations to know more or to see things happen faster. Of course I did.

    I can't say it enough. From everything I have heard in the thousands of hours I have listened to that scanner. Putnam County Sheriff Department is a well trained, respectable force with many available specialty units at their disposal. This is not the Barney Fife of Law enforcement way far far from it. I have faith they will get this job done and I also believe we are closer than we realize.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elle1919 View Post
    Perhaps there are those that question what police tactics were up to this point but when they reveal what happened to Haleigh all will be perfectly clear. We are just now learning about a LDT that Timmy took and learning that Tommy took a VSA early on. I think police knew what they were doing. I think there will be so much information released from behind the scenes that our heads will spin.

    BBM

    Both statements "We are just now learning......

    why now?

    and, I think there will be so much information released..

    In our lifetime?

    I know as many of us here feel, were that my child I would and my family and friends would be demanding immediate action. LE has had enough time. Way too much time. It's time for Putnam County to be exposed for what it is (or rather isn't) MO

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