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Thread: Twa

  1. #1
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    Talking Twa

    Hi I am a lurker but I have been going over this case for the last week or so. I was just wondering if anyone followed up to see if the passenger lists for TWA have been put onto microfilm yet in St. Louis? I am in the STL metro area and could go and look through them for you. Let me know if I can help with this.

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  3. #2
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    Hi kila1980 Welcome to Annas forum! Always good to have new eyes here.

    I pulled the most recent post regarding the archived TWA passenger lists.
    Date didn't pull over but this was from last month. If you are near the library listed below and happen to be near there perhaps a visit in person might get a little more info or how we might go about searching a particular date range....

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by SideKick View Post
    Dr. Doogie,

    I hope you don't mind, I emailed the St. Louis Mercantile Library to find out about the TWA passenger lists which were to be archived. This is the email I received.

    "The TWA Collection has still only been partially processed and at this time the finding aid does not contain any passenger lists. Please let me know if I can answer any additional questions or concerns."


    Sincerely,

    Curator, Special Collections

    ~~ This is disheartening information in that we thought/hoped that the TWA passenger existed and were to be archived. I wonder where they are and if they are accessible in the near future?
    Does anyone have the date range we might be looking for?

    thanks!
    ~JMO~

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  5. #3
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    Okay that library is 20 mins from my home and about 5 mins from my work. If someone could get the dates I would be more than happy to run out there.

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  7. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by kila1980 View Post
    Okay that library is 20 mins from my home and about 5 mins from my work. If someone could get the dates I would be more than happy to run out there.
    I would say January 1973 when Anna disappeared, anyone else?
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  9. #5
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    Quote Originally Posted by SideKick View Post
    I would say January 1973 when Anna disappeared, anyone else?

    I think so. I am trying to recall. George Waters was not seen for 1-2 weeks after Anna went missing. So that would pretty much entail from January 16 through January 31st, 1973.

    We should prolly not only check the name George Waters but the other names he was known to use which would be George Wolf or Wolfe and George Walters or Walter IIRC. Can someone confirm the known last names he used?

    Also, I am thinking of the entire passenger list is not yet archived, perhaps the people at the library might be able to put us in contact with someone who can assist in checking those dates specifically since we can narrow them down rather than waiting. We can hope so.
    Last edited by Cubby; 04-13-2010 at 12:02 PM.
    ~JMO~

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  11. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    I think so. I am trying to recall. George Waters was not seen for 1-2 weeks after Anna went missing. So that would pretty much entail from January 16 through January 31st, 1973.

    We should prolly not only check the name George Waters but the other names he was known to use which would be George Wolf or Wolfe and George Walters or Walter IIRC. Can someone confirm the known last names he used?

    Also, I am thinking of the entire passenger list is not yet archived, perhaps the people at the library might be able to put us in contact with someone who can assist in checking those dates specifically since we can narrow them down rather than waiting. We can hope so.


    ~ I am wondering if there is a list to archive as I understood them to say that there is no passenger list, does not contain passenger lists from TWA....j

    ~ Bringing up another question, would the Georges have used a Visa card for payments or cash? Wondering if VISA would have old lists of purchases, tho something tells me no....

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  13. #7
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    Thanks sidekick. I misread that thinking they did not yet archive passenger lists or it is unknown if passenger lists to archive exist. Can we confirm there are no pending passenger lists to be archived? Unless that is how you firmly understood it SK.

    LE might be able to get visa or credit card records from back then, but I doubt regular folks like us would. If there were CC numbers in the BF other than gas cards it would not hurt to give them to the detective and ask if he can check for activity on that card during the last half of January. I know they always say they won't do something without new info, but a CC number they did not have in 1973 might be new info.... even if to just check the card if it was in existance in 73 and were airline tickets purchased on X card(s) during the last 2 weeks of 1973.
    Last edited by Cubby; 04-13-2010 at 02:57 PM.
    ~JMO~

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  15. #8
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    The purchase was on a TWA credit card - that is why we know that it was used for air travel.

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  17. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Doogie View Post
    The purchase was on a TWA credit card - that is why we know that it was used for air travel.
    were say twa credit cards only used back then for air travel i know cc back in the 70s were not as huge as they were now. and almost all visa or master cards that are like a airline rewards program let you use the card anywhere to earn points not just for travel use

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  19. #10

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    Thanks sidekick. I misread that thinking they did not yet archive passenger lists or it is unknown if passenger lists to archive exist. Can we confirm there are no pending passenger lists to be archived? Unless that is how you firmly understood it SK.

    LE might be able to get visa or credit card records from back then, but I doubt regular folks like us would. If there were CC numbers in the BF other than gas cards it would not hurt to give them to the detective and ask if he can check for activity on that card during the last half of January. I know they always say they won't do something without new info, but a CC number they did not have in 1973 might be new info.... even if to just check the card if it was in existance in 73 and were airline tickets purchased on X card(s) during the last 2 weeks of 1973.
    Cubby, no problem. "The TWA Collection has still only been partially processed and at this time the finding aid does not contain any passenger lists. Please let me know if I can answer any additional questions or concerns." Is a direct quote from the reply I received. I think I received the reply from my home computer which I will check, if so, I can shoot them off a question or two regarding the lists.

    Which credit card company approves people back in the 70's? Is there a main credit check company in SF who did checked people's status?
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  21. #11
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    Thanks Doogie! I had forgotten which card ....

    Thanks Sidekick, I interpret that to mean the passenger lists are just not yet on the finder, not that they don't exist.

    I think back then, each creditor approved their own... or the bank which provided the credit. Say, if Bank of America funded TWA's credit line....

    Are you thinking along the lines of running a credit check kind of thing? Such as what Esperian or the others would do? If so, I don't know that they would have records going that far back if they were to allow a credit check on someone deceased. I know someone in the mortgage industry.. it won't hurt to ask....
    Last edited by Cubby; 04-13-2010 at 06:18 PM.
    ~JMO~

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  23. #12
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    you can run a free credit report on him at annualcreditreport.com all three buerau reports (Experian,Equifax,Transunion) are totally free (no strings attached). Every person is entitled to one free report per year from each reporting agency.....as far as him being deceased, IDK...not sure what happens to your credit when you die.

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  25. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    Thanks Doogie! I had forgotten which card ....

    Thanks Sidekick, I interpret that to mean the passenger lists are just not yet on the finder, not that they don't exist.

    I think back then, each creditor approved their own... or the bank which provided the credit. Say, if Bank of America funded TWA's credit line....

    Are you thinking along the lines of running a credit check kind of thing? Such as what Esperian or the others would do? If so, I don't know that they would have records going that far back if they were to allow a credit check on someone deceased. I know someone in the mortgage industry.. it won't hurt to ask....
    Hi Cubby,
    Perhaps the lists do indeed exist, that is something to confirm. Yes, I wonder who approved TWA's credit line? In all due respect, I can come up with ideas, but I must say, I have no idea how to run a credit check on anyone. If you could ask the person you know in the mortgage industry, perhaps they have the tools to check.

    Did we ever discuss George Water's passport? Would it be at all possible to have his checked? I know Mikie ordered Anna's and there were no changes IIRC


    I'll rewrite this on the Wanek thread but wanted to know if anyone could try to contact Evelyn's living sister, get to the bottom of that, who knows what she may know!

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  27. #14

    TWA Flight Schedule 1962

    Hi,

    Attached is a TWA Flight Schedule for 1962. First one is western flights, the second attachment is for eastern flights. On the schedule are flight numbers. I am wondering if GW wrote the flight number in Squibbs or elsewhere? This way we could match the country to the flight number.

    PSA = Passenger Services Association

    I clicked on History: Picked of all choices; January 15, 1973 departing from San Fran - landing in San Diego as all choices are within the western coast range to see the flight schedule.

    Here is the link.

    http://www.psa-history.org/flying/fast.php
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  29. #15

    TWA Eastern Flight Attachment

    [QUOTE=SideKick;5059833]Hi,

    Attached is a TWA Flight Schedule for 1962. First one is western flights, the second attachment is for eastern flights.

    TWA Eastern flight attachment.
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  31. #16
    Cubby? Do you think we need a TWA thread?

    Just wondering....

    Muah!
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  33. #17
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    You can go ahead and start a TWA Thread. I will move the info over later after you start one.
    Kind of busy or I would start one myself. thanks!
    ~JMO~

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  35. #18

    Talking Twa

    Starting my first thread :-)

    TWA away!
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  37. #19
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    posts moved. I don't think we need to look at any flight lists outside of the last half of Jan 73 or the month and date that the tickets were on that CC statement.

    Can someone refresh our memory what the dates or date was of the statement the TWA CC purchase was made?
    ~JMO~

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  38. #20
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    Sorry the posts are out of order, they move in date order.

    I was also thinking, even with the month the tickets were purchased, that does not tell us the dates of the flight... just that the tickets were purchased correct?

    They could have been with any advance notice....
    or purchased at the airport and flown the same day?
    ~JMO~

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  40. #21
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    True, but if we can nail down where he went shortly after Anna disappeared, it will help focus the search. Even if he actually travelled a month or two later, I still want to know where he went... and with whom.

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  42. #22
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    Hi All,

    From the time line.
    Jan 1973 - TWA plane ticket appears to have been purchased, est ticket cost $500.

    I think it has been said before, but I will say it again. $500 for airline tickets in 1973 seems to be a lot of money. I've tried googling to see if I could find the cost of airfares in 1973, but haven't had much luck. I did check the current cost of a flight from CA to MA for 1 adult and 1 child (current flight costs) and it was $408 on economy/non flexible and CA to Italy/LIN international was $824 on economy/non refundable for 1 adult and 1 child (if I did it correctly, maybe someone in the US could check this). Oh, these were both return flights and the higher costs, not the cheap airfares.

    So, with that info, the $500 in 1973 seems EXTREMELY costly (hope you can see where I'm going with this).

    Annasmom, can you remember roughly how much it cost to fly from the US to Greece (or vice versa) back then.

    I'm also wondering if there is any way to find out (maybe Annasmon might know) what age did a child have to be over in 1973, that you had to purchase a ticket for them. I'm pretty sure that back then, in Australia, if a child could sit on your knee, then you didn't have to purchase a ticket for them, roughly 4 or 5 years old (on domestic flights, not sure about international flights).

    I think whatever those TWA tickets were purchased for in Jan 1973, they need to be checked if possible.

    Could a TWA credit card be used to purchase anything else in 1973, like you can with a normal credit card or could it only be used to purchase flight tickets?

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  44. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Doogie View Post
    True, but if we can nail down where he went shortly after Anna disappeared, it will help focus the search. Even if he actually travelled a month or two later, I still want to know where he went... and with whom.
    Good point Dr. Doogie.

    The G's could have given Anna to friends to look after or placed her in an orphanage until they were ready to move her, under the guise that her mother had died or abandoned her and GW needed a little time to "get settled" before he took her home. GW was Anna's bio father (and could have got a copy of her birth certificate), how hard would it be to convince anyone of that?

    How widely spread was the news of Anna's disappearance? Was it in local newspapers only or national newspapers? Was it on local TV stations only or national TV stations?

    Is it possible, if someone was looking after Anna for the G's, they wouldn't have known that she was a missing child?

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  46. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    posts moved. I don't think we need to look at any flight lists outside of the last half of Jan 73 or the month and date that the tickets were on that CC statement.

    Can someone refresh our memory what the dates or date was of the statement the TWA CC purchase was made?
    I had this list on my Facebook for Anna, copied from Sherlock's list she done for us. Where are all the lists Sherlock listed?


    Travel
    738 2/16/1973 TWA Vacation : Travel (10.00)
    752 3/12/1973 TWA Vacation : Travel (11.37)
    772 4/16/1973 TWA Vacation : Travel (11.22)
    808 6/5/1973 TWA Vacation : Travel (12.58)
    814 6/13/1973 TWA Vacation : Travel (12.61)
    831 7/16/1973 TWA Vacation : Travel (12.28)
    852 8/23/1973 TWA Vacation : Travel (15.00)
    879 9/14/1973 TWA Vacation : Travel (15.00)
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  48. #25
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    Those would be in the BFH thread Sidekick.
    ~JMO~

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