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Twa

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Doogie View Post
    Yes, since he lived in a hotel and that hotel was not destroyed by fire, the claim that his passport was destroyed in a fire is bogus.

    ~ ah, I see, do you feel that LE could step in and talk with the Passport Head Office to check if they can obtain any information on his old passport?

    Thanks, Nancy
    Anna Christian Waters Web Page
    www.searchingforanna.com

    Anna Christian Water's WS Forum
    www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=104

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    https://www.facebook.com/groups/annachristianwaters/

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SideKick View Post
    ~ ah, I see, do you feel that LE could step in and talk with the Passport Head Office to check if they can obtain any information on his old passport?

    Thanks, Nancy
    No, I'm afraid we are really on our own here. LE will not do anything unless we have some new hard evidence, and they already know about the passport situation.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Annasmom View Post
    No, I'm afraid we are really on our own here. LE will not do anything unless we have some new hard evidence, and they already know about the passport situation.
    Ok, I understand. I know LE is very busy, too bad they couldn't agree and have an intern make contact with the passport authorities. What is one to do? And, no use contacting the passport place on our own, due to the privacy act etc., no one would tell us about GW's passport history. Should we write the White House?! (sorta kidding).....
    Anna Christian Waters Web Page
    www.searchingforanna.com

    Anna Christian Water's WS Forum
    www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=104

    Search FB: Anna Christian Waters
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/annachristianwaters/

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    The lists for the TWA cc statements and other payments starts about pg 15 in the 1st BFH thread.

    Here is a link:
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...=50434&page=15

    Reviewing the few pages there, about 14-16, it is noted that GW had filled his gas tank twice about the time Anna went missing.

    Food for thought, and give me some feedback here with your thoughts. Is it possible, GW purchased airline tickets for a potential adoptive family and flew them into SF? Rather than flying out himself? I'm just trying to tie together any possibilities with the purchases on the TWA credit card and filling the gas tank twice in a few days.
    Excellent thought Cubby. It would be less obvious if a couple were travelling with a little girl rather 1 or 2 men travelling with a little girl (even back in the '70's I would think that would have raised an eyebrow or two).

    The tickets could also have been purchased for someone else to take Anna out of CA eg; the couple in the car.

    If or when the TWA passenger list are available, I think we need to keep a really open mind and look for anyone travelling with a child (girl or boy, as I said before, Anna could have been dressed to look like a boy) and as Cubby pointed out, anyone flying in to SF alone and travelling out with a child. The possibilities seem to be endless.

    I have 3 questions that I wonder if anyone can answer.

    1) Did TWA have both domestic and international flights in the '70's or only
    domestic flights?

    2) Did you have to show photo ID to collect domestic flight tickets in the
    '70's?

    3) Did you have to purchase a ticket for a young child to fly in the '70's or
    could they fly for free if they sat on your knee?

  5. #35
    I'm back!!!! Wow, all that reading to catch up.

    First, I also received the pathtag but have not registered it yet. I also wear it around my neck. The thought of hiding it somewhere for someone to find is hard for me to do. I don't want to part with it.

    I understood the TWA credit card was for travel only. A few years ago I found a brochure on e-bay that I will attach. These brochures I think are from around 1975. Yes there are international fares listed.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SherlockJr View Post
    I'm back!!!! Wow, all that reading to catch up.

    First, I also received the pathtag but have not registered it yet. I also wear it around my neck. The thought of hiding it somewhere for someone to find is hard for me to do. I don't want to part with it.

    I understood the TWA credit card was for travel only. A few years ago I found a brochure on e-bay that I will attach. These brochures I think are from around 1975. Yes there are international fares listed.
    Hi Sherlock, good to see you

    I can read the prices but can't read what the origin or destinations are. Do you have the actual brochures? if so, could you take a more front on photo of them so we can read the whole brochures.

  7. #37
    From what I can see when zooming in on the brochure most flights less than $500 are within the USA. Looks like European flights are from $569-$802. And now I see on the second brochure the date of 1972.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SideKick View Post
    Ok, I understand. I know LE is very busy, too bad they couldn't agree and have an intern make contact with the passport authorities. What is one to do? And, no use contacting the passport place on our own, due to the privacy act etc., no one would tell us about GW's passport history. Should we write the White House?! (sorta kidding).....

    Not so much on Annas case, but I sware at times on local cases I am gonna chain myself to the doors of the sheriffs office until I see action! I'd have to find a baby sitter and a real good reason to do that, but the thought at times has crossed my mind....... I'm sure if I was in HMB I'd consider doing that there.....
    Last edited by Cubby; 04-16-2010 at 09:31 PM.
    ~JMO~

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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzzieMum View Post
    Excellent thought Cubby. It would be less obvious if a couple were travelling with a little girl rather 1 or 2 men travelling with a little girl (even back in the '70's I would think that would have raised an eyebrow or two).

    The tickets could also have been purchased for someone else to take Anna out of CA eg; the couple in the car.

    If or when the TWA passenger list are available, I think we need to keep a really open mind and look for anyone travelling with a child (girl or boy, as I said before, Anna could have been dressed to look like a boy) and as Cubby pointed out, anyone flying in to SF alone and travelling out with a child. The possibilities seem to be endless.

    I have 3 questions that I wonder if anyone can answer.

    1) Did TWA have both domestic and international flights in the '70's or only
    domestic flights?

    2) Did you have to show photo ID to collect domestic flight tickets in the
    '70's?

    3) Did you have to purchase a ticket for a young child to fly in the '70's or
    could they fly for free if they sat on your knee?

    Thanks Oz' I am pretty sure TWA flew internationally - see Sherlocks attachments.

    2)I do not think id was required for airline tickets in the 70's. I'm going to 'guess' that because I remember my great uncle born in the teens did not ever get a credit card until one was required to reserve a rental car and I recall that happening sometime in the 80's. I'd bet one just had to walk to the counter and give their name and flight information.

    don't recall about the age of kids flying free. Any flying I have done with a child is after 2000.

    Anyone here fly with their kiddo's in the early 70's?
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


    Long Lost Love - Discovery ID - Disappeared - Bob Harrod Case

    You can now purchase Mr. Harrod's Disappeared episode through Amazon, iTunes or YouTube.

  10. #40
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    FWIW I used to be a corporate travel agent (but not in the early 1970's, I was too young)

    January used to be one of the cheapest times of year to travel to Europe--we would always advise our clients to travel during that time of year to get a good deal. I think $500.00 could be alittle bit high in the early 70's--this was mostly likely two tickets, not one. I remember even in the late 80's-early 90's people could get tickets for $300 a piece to Paris, Geneva, etc in Jan. JMO of course, since I do not know for certain what the tkt prices were then. Also, the airline industry was deregulated in the late 70's, so I do not know if tickets were less expensive or more. Anyone here in the travel industry in the 70's before dereg? I am guessing that Sherlocks brochure is fare guidelines. Fares from April-Oct were always 2-3 times higher than Jan-Mar.

    Quote Originally Posted by OzzieMum View Post
    Hi All,

    From the time line.
    Jan 1973 - TWA plane ticket appears to have been purchased, est ticket cost $500.

    I think it has been said before, but I will say it again. $500 for airline tickets in 1973 seems to be a lot of money. I've tried googling to see if I could find the cost of airfares in 1973, but haven't had much luck. I did check the current cost of a flight from CA to MA for 1 adult and 1 child (current flight costs) and it was $408 on economy/non flexible and CA to Italy/LIN international was $824 on economy/non refundable for 1 adult and 1 child (if I did it correctly, maybe someone in the US could check this). Oh, these were both return flights and the higher costs, not the cheap airfares.

    So, with that info, the $500 in 1973 seems EXTREMELY costly (hope you can see where I'm going with this).

    Annasmom, can you remember roughly how much it cost to fly from the US to Greece (or vice versa) back then.

    I'm also wondering if there is any way to find out (maybe Annasmon might know) what age did a child have to be over in 1973, that you had to purchase a ticket for them. I'm pretty sure that back then, in Australia, if a child could sit on your knee, then you didn't have to purchase a ticket for them, roughly 4 or 5 years old (on domestic flights, not sure about international flights).

    I think whatever those TWA tickets were purchased for in Jan 1973, they need to be checked if possible.

    Could a TWA credit card be used to purchase anything else in 1973, like you can with a normal credit card or could it only be used to purchase flight tickets?
    Last edited by Julessleuther; 04-17-2010 at 12:53 AM.


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    Thanks Oz' I am pretty sure TWA flew internationally - see Sherlocks attachments.

    2)I do not think id was required for airline tickets in the 70's. I'm going to 'guess' that because I remember my great uncle born in the teens did not ever get a credit card until one was required to reserve a rental car and I recall that happening sometime in the 80's. I'd bet one just had to walk to the counter and give their name and flight information.

    don't recall about the age of kids flying free. Any flying I have done with a child is after 2000.

    Anyone here fly with their kiddo's in the early 70's?
    Thanks Cubby.

    I didn't think you would have needed ID as it was "pre-terrorism" as we know it today and security wasn't that tight. Having said that, even today it's not impossible to fly domestically under someone else's name (here in Australia anyway). My partner is a recruiting officer, or scout as you call them, for our major league football and they used to use frequent flyer points to fly people around Australia. It was simple, the ticket was purchased under a persons name and that person would go to the airport and collect the ticket and then hand it over to the person that was flying. You don't have to show ID once you have the boarding pass. Apparently it can still be done even now with E ticketing for the same reason. Joe Blogs sitting beside you could actually be Osama Bin Terrorist. Scary hey?

    I would still like to know if Anna could have flown for free if anyone knows. Annasmom?

  12. #42
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    I can answer some of the questions:

    1. Yes, TWA had international flights in the 70's, many flights.

    2. Most likely you did not have to show ID--even in the 80's we did not have to show ID. For international you did need to show your passport, but it was not until the late 90's that travel agents even had to input the passport numbers into the reservation prior to departure.

    3. You did have to purchase a ticket for children (as of the 80's, not certain of the 70's), but children's tickets were 75% off the regular fare. (This was specifically for international tickets)


    Some info about TWA:
    http://web2.umkc.edu/whmckc/COLLECTI...TRY/KC0453.pdf

    Info on TWA deregulation:
    http://www.travelandleisure.com/arti...airline-food/1

    Quote Originally Posted by OzzieMum View Post
    Excellent thought Cubby. It would be less obvious if a couple were travelling with a little girl rather 1 or 2 men travelling with a little girl (even back in the '70's I would think that would have raised an eyebrow or two).

    The tickets could also have been purchased for someone else to take Anna out of CA eg; the couple in the car.

    If or when the TWA passenger list are available, I think we need to keep a really open mind and look for anyone travelling with a child (girl or boy, as I said before, Anna could have been dressed to look like a boy) and as Cubby pointed out, anyone flying in to SF alone and travelling out with a child. The possibilities seem to be endless.

    I have 3 questions that I wonder if anyone can answer.

    1) Did TWA have both domestic and international flights in the '70's or only
    domestic flights?

    2) Did you have to show photo ID to collect domestic flight tickets in the
    '70's?

    3) Did you have to purchase a ticket for a young child to fly in the '70's or
    could they fly for free if they sat on your knee?
    Last edited by Julessleuther; 04-17-2010 at 01:09 AM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julessleuther View Post
    I can answer some of the questions:

    1. Yes, TWA had international flights in the 70's, many flights.

    2. Most likely you did not have to show ID--even in the 80's we did not have to show ID. For international you did need to show your passport, but it was not until the late 90's that travel agents even had to input the passport numbers into the reservation prior to departure.

    3. You did have to purchase a ticket for children (as of the 80's, not certain of the 70's), but children's tickets were 75% off the regular fare. (This was specifically for international tickets)
    Thanks Jules.

    I would be more interested in a child travelling on domestic flights and the reason for this is I think the G's were extremely cautious in their planning and if they were going to take Anna overseas, I definitely don't think they would have flown directly from SF, I think they would taken a domestic flight to another state and either flown out from there or handed her over to whoever they were entrusting her to to take her overseas. Was SF airport and international airport in the '70's? or would you have to have flown to LAX or JFK for an international flight?

  14. #44
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    San Francisco was an international airport in 1973, but Los Angeles was the main hub for TWA on the west coast. For international, its main hub was Charles DeGaille in Paris. So if they were flying TWA internationally, they would have connected to a flight out of Los Angeles. EDIT: It appears from the time table below that domestic flights to Europe primarily originated out of JFK, so they would have flown San Francisco -JFK - Rome etc.

    I see your point if they met someone in Los Angeles and only needed to buy domestic tickets, but if they were traveling (themselves) internationally, they would most likely have purchased the ticket as a whole ticket from Point A to Point B, and connecting through Los Angeles, JFK (their main east coast hub), St Louis, Chicago, etc to be more cost effective. It would have been considerably more expensive to purchase a San Francisco to Los Angeles, and then a separate Los Angeles to Milan etc. ticket. However, you might be correct, if they were only purchasing one ticket for that $500 (Anna only), they may have purchased the domestic tkt separately from the international portion, and thus why there was higher rate.

    I found a times table from 1968, it was the closest I could get to 1973. Most likely the routes did not change much from 68-73, just the times. One thing of interest is that TWA had helicopter service out of San Francisco. (Shown on the brochure)
    http://www.timetableimages.com/ttima...68/tw68-01.jpg

    http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/tw68/

    For Italy, they flew into Milan and Rome. It appears that the flights to Milan and Rome originate from JFK (New York City) from the US.

    This times table also lists the allowances for children regarding fares:
    Domestic: Children under 2 flew free if sitting on a lap, and 1/2 fare from 2-12 if occupying a seat. For international, children under 2 on lap paid 10% of adult fare, if they had their own seat they paid 1/2 adult fare. It also states that children can only travel alone under certain circumstances. If Anna traveled alone, she would have had to have her own seat.

    Quote Originally Posted by OzzieMum View Post
    Thanks Jules.

    I would be more interested in a child travelling on domestic flights and the reason for this is I think the G's were extremely cautious in their planning and if they were going to take Anna overseas, I definitely don't think they would have flown directly from SF, I think they would taken a domestic flight to another state and either flown out from there or handed her over to whoever they were entrusting her to to take her overseas. Was SF airport and international airport in the '70's? or would you have to have flown to LAX or JFK for an international flight?
    Last edited by Julessleuther; 04-17-2010 at 01:43 AM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julessleuther View Post
    San Francisco was an international airport in 1973, but Los Angeles was the main hub for TWA on the west coast. For international, its main hub was Charles DeGaille in Paris. So if they were flying TWA internationally, they would have connected to a flight out of Los Angeles. EDIT: It appears from the time table below that domestic flights to Europe primarily originated out of JFK, so they would have flown San Francisco -JFK - Rome etc.

    I see your point if they met someone in Los Angeles and only needed to buy domestic tickets, but if they were traveling (themselves) internationally, they would most likely have purchased the ticket as a whole ticket from Point A to Point B, and connecting through Los Angeles, JFK (their main east coast hub), St Louis, Chicago, etc to be more cost effective. It would have been considerably more expensive to purchase a San Francisco to Los Angeles, and then a separate Los Angeles to Milan etc. ticket. However, you might be correct, if they were only purchasing one ticket for that $500 (Anna only), they may have purchased the domestic tkt separately from the international portion, and thus why there was higher rate.

    I found a times table from 1968, it was the closest I could get to 1973. Most likely the routes did not change much from 68-73, just the times. One thing of interest is that TWA had helicopter service out of San Francisco. (Shown on the brochure)
    http://www.timetableimages.com/ttima...68/tw68-01.jpg

    http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/tw68/

    For Italy, they flew into Milan and Rome. It appears that the flights to Milan and Rome originate from JFK (New York City) from the US.

    This times table also lists the allowances for children regarding fares:
    Domestic: Children under 2 flew free if sitting on a lap, and 1/2 fare from 2-12 if occupying a seat. For international, children under 2 on lap paid 10% of adult fare, if they had their own seat they paid 1/2 adult fare. It also states that children can only travel alone under certain circumstances. If Anna traveled alone, she would have had to have her own seat.
    Thank Jules. Excellent info, just what I was looking for.

    That $500 could definitely be accounted for by a return domestic ticket for GW and a one way international ticket for Anna, going under the assumption that GW might have met up with the "adoptive" parents in LA or NY.

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