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Twa

  1. #46
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    I think that if there are any records from 1973 this is our best bet....

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    Thanks Oz' I am pretty sure TWA flew internationally - see Sherlocks attachments.

    2)I do not think id was required for airline tickets in the 70's. I'm going to 'guess' that because I remember my great uncle born in the teens did not ever get a credit card until one was required to reserve a rental car and I recall that happening sometime in the 80's. I'd bet one just had to walk to the counter and give their name and flight information.

    don't recall about the age of kids flying free. Any flying I have done with a child is after 2000.

    Anyone here fly with their kiddo's in the early 70's?
    And if I recall correctly, most state driver's licenses didn't have photos then. You could just pick up tickets. I can remember still doing that in the early to mid 80's.

    I think you could ride with a small child on your lap for free. I remember one flight in 1976 where a family had three kids - and three seats, Mom held one, Dad had one and the other child had the last one, and they switched off holding kids and kids getting a turn in the third seat. The flight had empty seats so that wasn't the reason, I just somehow "knew" kids flew free. (Can you tell I was across the aisle, the kids where loud, and I just so recall this flight for that and other reasons. I am not sure when the rule on kids having their own seat and paying went into effect. I think it was still like that in the mid 80's for sure, but, after that not so sure. ETA - Domestic flight.

    And the TWA card was for flights only, except for maybe the duty free on planes. I could be wrong, maybe it had some use in the airport, but, I kind of think only on tickets and board the plane. Oh, and possibly if you booked packages (flights/hotel) through TWA. But, I don't believe you could walk in a hotel and use the card just like that, it was pre booking.
    Last edited by WholeLottaRosie; 04-20-2010 at 02:59 AM. Reason: adding type of flight






    All kinds of hugs!

    ROSIE



  3. #48

    Email Update On the TWA Lists

    I wrote the St. Louis Mercantile Library to confirm about passenger lists as I thought the answer was vague. This is what I received today.

    ~
    For what has been processed there are no passenger lists listed in the finding aid. Each folder does contain multiple items, so there is no way to tell if the folder might contain general passenger information.

    There is also no way to tell if there is general passenger, or passenger lists, in the unprocessed part of the collection. I hope that helps. If I come across something I will be sure to let you know.

    So, we're hovering, they may or may not contain passenger lists. Hopefully, fingers crossed the unprocessed collection will have something to go on.

    Remaining hopeful
    Anna Christian Waters Web Page
    www.searchingforanna.com

    Anna Christian Water's WS Forum
    www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=104

    Search FB: Anna Christian Waters
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/annachristianwaters/

  4. #49

    San Fran to Rome/Milan

    I hope this link works if not I'll link the main page.

    It shows travel from city to city, it appears San Fran to Rome or Milan Italy. I am wondering if from there Anna (if taken to Italy) was then driven to another city or small town. We'll never know obviously until our big break, but looking on Google Rome for instance, there are so many small towns she could be living in.

    I can't recall if Waters ever spoke of Italy in any other terms over the years, medicine, schools etc. other than Greece. I was looking for a town which sounded familiar from a note from Squibbs but haven't seen anything yet.
    Makes me wonder if Brody was indeed orginally from Italy. Why come up with Italy? I can definitely see Brody coasting Waters to send Anna where he wanted her to go.

    I would like to investigate schools and year books from Italy if on the internet. Just a head's up for those searching.

    http://airchive.com/html/timetable-a...bruary-23/7224

    http://airchive.com/html/timetable-a...ruary-23/7224# This one has the number sign added... ?
    Anna Christian Waters Web Page
    www.searchingforanna.com

    Anna Christian Water's WS Forum
    www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=104

    Search FB: Anna Christian Waters
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/annachristianwaters/

  5. #50
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    Dual Citizenship?

    I have a blogger friend whose family has been American for several generations, but discovered that Italy allows dual citizenship if it can be proven that your family emigrated from Italy. Basically, it required him to track down his great-, great-...grandparents birth records in their towns of origin, trace the subsequent marriage and birth records and send the data to the Italian authorities, and then, dual citizenship.

    So my question is, is there any Italian heritage at all in Waters' family? Second thought, if Brody was of Italian descent, could a forged birth certificate for Anna have acquired her dual citizenship? If this was accomplished, I believe all the objections about the difficulty of life in Italy without proper documentation fall by the wayside. It would also explain communication with the Italian consulate.

    Here's his post which sort of lays it out: http://saintsuperman.wordpress.com/2...-part-ii-1917/

  6. #51
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    Interesting mom2six.

    Would your blogger friend know when this dual citizenship first became available if one could prove lineage from Italy? Could we find out if it precedes when Anna went missing?

    This would be a fantastic question for raf, since she is in Italy and is a genealogist.

    oh raf, where are you?

    Any thoughts on this?

    tia!
    Last edited by Cubby; 08-28-2010 at 06:51 PM.
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


    Long Lost Love - Discovery ID - Disappeared - Bob Harrod Case

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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mom2six View Post
    I have a blogger friend whose family has been American for several generations, but discovered that Italy allows dual citizenship if it can be proven that your family emigrated from Italy. Basically, it required him to track down his great-, great-...grandparents birth records in their towns of origin, trace the subsequent marriage and birth records and send the data to the Italian authorities, and then, dual citizenship.

    So my question is, is there any Italian heritage at all in Waters' family? Second thought, if Brody was of Italian descent, could a forged birth certificate for Anna have acquired her dual citizenship? If this was accomplished, I believe all the objections about the difficulty of life in Italy without proper documentation fall by the wayside. It would also explain communication with the Italian consulate.

    Here's his post which sort of lays it out: http://saintsuperman.wordpress.com/2...-part-ii-1917/
    I don't think there is any Italian heritage at all in the Waters family. I am not quite sure where to go with this. I have had dual citizenship (Greek and American) ever since 1958.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annasmom View Post
    I don't think there is any Italian heritage at all in the Waters family. I am not quite sure where to go with this. I have had dual citizenship (Greek and American) ever since 1958.
    It might be interesting to relook at Brody's odd ramblings about the time he wanted to change Anna's name to Christianna or Benedito ? (IIRC) His choice of names seemed to sound either somewhat Italian or Hispanic. It always struck me as odd as to why he might have chosen something either Italian or Hispanic sounding.....but nothing ever stood out as to why.

    Could Eifee be a mispelling of an Italian word of somekind? perhaps an older one? I ask because my mother was taught an old polish nursery rhyme which her grandmother knew and was taught to me (I vaguelly remember it). It was so old, of the large Polish community in the Chicago area I only found one person from Poland who actually remembered it. My great grandmother would have been born sometime about 1890... and that is not far from GB's generation. It is possible.....
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


    Long Lost Love - Discovery ID - Disappeared - Bob Harrod Case

    You can now purchase Mr. Harrod's Disappeared episode through Amazon, iTunes or YouTube.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    It might be interesting to relook at Brody's odd ramblings about the time he wanted to change Anna's name to Christianna or Benedito ? (IIRC) His choice of names seemed to sound either somewhat Italian or Hispanic. It always struck me as odd as to why he might have chosen something either Italian or Hispanic sounding.....but nothing ever stood out as to why.

    Could Eifee be a mispelling of an Italian word of somekind? perhaps an older one? I ask because my mother was taught an old polish nursery rhyme which her grandmother knew and was taught to me (I vaguelly remember it). It was so old, of the large Polish community in the Chicago area I only found one person from Poland who actually remembered it. My great grandmother would have been born sometime about 1890... and that is not far from GB's generation. It is possible.....
    Christiana Benedo Waters was a name GB picked out which added up to a "27" in his method of numerology. When I refused to change Anna's name, the compromise was to add the name "Eifee" to her existing name of Anna Christian.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by mom2six View Post
    I have a blogger friend whose family has been American for several generations, but discovered that Italy allows dual citizenship if it can be proven that your family emigrated from Italy. Basically, it required him to track down his great-, great-...grandparents birth records in their towns of origin, trace the subsequent marriage and birth records and send the data to the Italian authorities, and then, dual citizenship.

    So my question is, is there any Italian heritage at all in Waters' family? Second thought, if Brody was of Italian descent, could a forged birth certificate for Anna have acquired her dual citizenship? If this was accomplished, I believe all the objections about the difficulty of life in Italy without proper documentation fall by the wayside. It would also explain communication with the Italian consulate.

    Here's his post which sort of lays it out: http://saintsuperman.wordpress.com/2...-part-ii-1917/
    I am sure that was and is impossible.... in Anna case....
    For obtain the italian citizenship from a US citizen of italian origins, needing several original documents ( from USA and from Italy), and abt 1 year ( if all well) currently; in the past, around the 1970s, I believe that the process for italian citizenship was more long... and it are many which crossed controls of documents, and no discrepancies...

    in the case of Anna, because she was a minor, it was ( and it is) more hard... and however if GB was the italian George Broda, he was no the father or grandfather of Anna... so it is totally impossible this suggestion....

    if GW travelled with Anna in Italy, the only possibility, if it could have counterfeited documents, in some way, so that all seemed regular.... and no problem...

    I know not what was the US law around the 1970s for a trip in foreign country of a minor... but by money, in some way, all could be possible...

    just today I read abt a case in "Chi l'ha visto?" homepage http://www.chilhavisto.rai.it/dl/clv...a180d5ba3.html
    abt a italian baby girl of 17 days old, abudcted in Roma from a venezuelan woman that raised the baby girl as own daughter in Venezuela counterfeiting the baby identity: birth act, ID card, residence certificate etc...
    I believe that needing of a lot of money for that...

    Becoming adult, the girl, understanding by physical difference with this woman, that she was no the daughter... and finally found some papers that the woman hidden, so now she search the biological mother in Italy...

    That just for to say, that for a abducter, all is possible, because already no respect the laws, and it know all bad ways for to make a abduction.... and where to carry the baby, and as to make in future, because wishing the abduction and planning all...

    So also in Anna case, it is possible that GW travelled with Anna, but no legally, but counterfeiting, corrupting, lying...

    no by legal way, but by illegal way
    all the best,
    raf


  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by raf View Post
    I am sure that was and is impossible.... in Anna case....
    For obtain the italian citizenship from a US citizen of italian origins, needing several original documents ( from USA and from Italy), and abt 1 year ( if all well) currently; in the past, around the 1970s, I believe that the process for italian citizenship was more long... and it are many which crossed controls of documents, and no discrepancies...

    in the case of Anna, because she was a minor, it was ( and it is) more hard... and however if GB was the italian George Broda, he was no the father or grandfather of Anna... so it is totally impossible this suggestion....

    if GW travelled with Anna in Italy, the only possibility, if it could have counterfeited documents, in some way, so that all seemed regular.... and no problem...

    no by legal way, but by illegal way
    all the best,
    raf

    respectfully snipped. BBM. I agree raf, it is probably unlikely that GB could have forged documents since he changed his name. Especially since we could find no evidence of a GB and then even the same birthday and additional info leading us to believe a strong possibility of an identity GB used prior to a name change to GB.

    I hope that makes sense. It's the middle of the aftenoon and I need more coffee!

    Thank you for the additional info on the article raf! I appreciate very much when you share those stories with us. I hope that girl is able to find her birth mom. Please keep us posted if you happen to hear she did!
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


    Long Lost Love - Discovery ID - Disappeared - Bob Harrod Case

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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    Interesting mom2six.

    Would your blogger friend know when this dual citizenship first became available if one could prove lineage from Italy? Could we find out if it precedes when Anna went missing?
    I am hesitant to write any further questions to my friend at this time because he is just moving in and starting seminary this week, which I imagine is more than a little overwhelming, so let's see if we can answer this ourselves first. From his first post on the subject, this is the explanation for how it is possible:

    "By the United States’ principle of jus soli (citizenship by location of birth) and Italy’s principle of jus sanguinus (citizenship by descent of blood), Michael [his relative] was born with citizenship in both countries."

    From the sound of this, it is how citizenship has always been determined in Italy. Since his relatives who immigrated were here from 1917 up to the present, I deduce that this reckoning of citizenship had to be in effect at least that long.

    http://www.italiandualcitizenship.com/ - this is interesting.

    The George Broda connection Raf was researching intrigues me. Did I read somewhere in that thread that US citizenship could be acquired through service in the US military at that time? I will have to search those posts and read more on it, but probably won't have time until tomorrow, though. Sorry if I'm raising more questions than answers.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by raf View Post
    So also in Anna case, it is possible that GW travelled with Anna, but no legally, but counterfeiting, corrupting, lying...

    no by legal way, but by illegal way
    all the best,
    raf
    Thanks for your input. It's a wild idea, I agree, but facts are so hard to add up in this case. I agree, if any of this is relevant it would definitely be illegal. One additional thought is that GW would have access to the necessary paperwork to easily have a false birth certificate issued. Back in the 1970s, I do not believe this would be at all difficult.

    For example, in the state in which I live, anybody could file a birth certificate up until a few years ago. Let's see, my unassisted home born baby is now 6, and it was only during my pregnancy with him that they began certifying midwives in the state to file birth certificates. Before that, anyone could get the form, and midwives or people claiming to be midwives could get stacks of bc forms with no questions asked. No other proof of pregnancy or birth was even required until this time. Non-nurse midwives have only been licensed in my state for 3 years, so these were unregulated midwives with access to numerous forms up until 2004.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by mom2six View Post
    I am hesitant to write any further questions to my friend at this time because he is just moving in and starting seminary this week, which I imagine is more than a little overwhelming, so let's see if we can answer this ourselves first. From his first post on the subject, this is the explanation for how it is possible:

    "By the United States’ principle of jus soli (citizenship by location of birth) and Italy’s principle of jus sanguinus (citizenship by descent of blood), Michael [his relative] was born with citizenship in both countries."

    From the sound of this, it is how citizenship has always been determined in Italy. Since his relatives who immigrated were here from 1917 up to the present, I deduce that this reckoning of citizenship had to be in effect at least that long.

    http://www.italiandualcitizenship.com/ - this is interesting.

    The George Broda connection Raf was researching intrigues me. Did I read somewhere in that thread that US citizenship could be acquired through service in the US military at that time? I will have to search those posts and read more on it, but probably won't have time until tomorrow, though. Sorry if I'm raising more questions than answers.

    By all means don't bother your friend while he is busy.
    BBM. Acquiring US citizenship by serving in the US military is not ringing a bell for me. I think I recall reading non US citizens have served in the US military, but I can't recall where or why. Someone more familiar with military will have to answer. I don't have any military in my family, outside of the reserves....

    hth
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


    Long Lost Love - Discovery ID - Disappeared - Bob Harrod Case

    You can now purchase Mr. Harrod's Disappeared episode through Amazon, iTunes or YouTube.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by mom2six View Post
    Thanks for your input. It's a wild idea, I agree, but facts are so hard to add up in this case. I agree, if any of this is relevant it would definitely be illegal. One additional thought is that GW would have access to the necessary paperwork to easily have a false birth certificate issued. Back in the 1970s, I do not believe this would be at all difficult.

    For example, in the state in which I live, anybody could file a birth certificate up until a few years ago. Let's see, my unassisted home born baby is now 6, and it was only during my pregnancy with him that they began certifying midwives in the state to file birth certificates. Before that, anyone could get the form, and midwives or people claiming to be midwives could get stacks of bc forms with no questions asked. No other proof of pregnancy or birth was even required until this time. Non-nurse midwives have only been licensed in my state for 3 years, so these were unregulated midwives with access to numerous forms up until 2004.
    This is excellent information to know, but I don't know where we would go with narrowing down a possible Anna. Outside of looking at adoptees with more than one possible link via name, dob, etc. to what we know of GB... IF they would have been able to create a ficticous id for Anna - technically they could have picked any date or any info.....

    tia
    ~JMO~

    A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown


    Long Lost Love - Discovery ID - Disappeared - Bob Harrod Case

    You can now purchase Mr. Harrod's Disappeared episode through Amazon, iTunes or YouTube.

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