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  1. #1

    Theories: How Would Elizabeth have killed Gabe?

    This thread is to develop and discuss theories of how Elizabeth would have killed Gabe, if she did so.

    Consider whether or not it was premeditated.

    Consider identifying at what point she might have started thinking about it, at what point she might have started to plan it, and at what point she might have started to put the plan into effect. What known facts support these different points?

    Would she have killed Gabe at the hotel or elsewhere? If elsewhere, where? why?

    Where would she have disposed of his body? Where she killed him or elsewhere?

    Pull out those maps and identify candidate spots for both the murder and the disposal.

    This is going to be tough for many of us, but it's time to get down and dirty, and figure out all aspects of what might have happened to Gabe, for those who can, when we can.

    calling all angels
    calling all angels
    walk me through this one
    don't leave me alone
    calling all angels
    calling all angels
    we're cryin' and we're hurtin'
    and we're not sure why...

    and every day you gaze upon the sunset
    with such love and intensity
    it's almost...it's almost as if
    if you could only crack the code
    then you'd finally understand what this all means

    calling all angels
    calling all angels
    walk me through this one
    don't leave me alone
    callin' all angels
    callin' all angels
    we're tryin'
    we're hopin'
    we're hurtin'
    we're lovin'
    we're cryin'
    we're callin'
    'cause we're not sure how this goes


    from Calling All Angels
    Jane Siberry with k.d.lang

    We love you, Gabe.

  2. #2
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    Smother him or drown him is what I'm thinking.
    Maybe drive out to Victoria to dispose of the body since her cell phone pinged out there.
    if I was LE I'd drive out there just to make sure his body was not out there somewhere.

    I'd feel awful if that area was not searched and that happens to be where his body was.
    Last edited by iluvmua; 04-15-2010 at 09:53 AM.

  3. #3
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    I hate this.

    This clip from the KPHO video has always bothered me. I thought, she probably drowned him, maybe during his bathtime the night of the 26th. I thought, since she did it in water, she may have disposed of him in water since it was on her mind, and a ditch made sense, since it was right there. I reviewed the weather for that date, and it didn't rain, so water wouldn't be flowing in there, but I wondered if maybe she could have walked along the ditch to a more hidden area or a tunnel and left him there, thinking that the next rain would wash him away.

    I hate to even acknowledge these thoughts. I'm not ready. I think he's still out there alive.

    http://www.kpho.com/video/22494329/index.html

    Sa 12/26 Hi 60, Lo 33, Mostly Sunny
    Su 12/27 Hi 61, Lo 33, Overcast


    I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.
    ― Franklin D. Roosevelt


    Gabriel Johnson and Sylar Newton. Come home safely Gabriel Johnson! RIP Sweet Sylar.

  4. #4
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    In my opinion, Elizabeth, in a fit of rage born of anger and frustration...

    * smothered him with a pillow, or

    * drowned him in the motel bathroom, or

    * forced/ allowed him to overdose on medicine.

    I have felt from the beginning though, that Elizabeth probably smothered Gabriel with a pillow in the motel room.

    So completely senseless. That poor baby.
    .... ....... My posts are my opinion, only.

  5. #5
    I hate it too, kiss.

    Because of Elizabeth's long history with physical violence, in which she becomes enraged, and then strikes out physically, I think that is what would have happened. I think she was simmering that week, and that her rage would have grown, and she would have killed Gabe violently. A combination of shaking him and strangling him.

    I think she would, at some point, realized she crossed the point of no return, and taken him somewhere else. Because 'park' was on her mind, I think a park or someplace that looks like a park - forest, woods, treed area. I think there, she may have made sure he was dead and/or, again realizing she was past the point of no return, unleashed her full rage, not just towards Logan, because I don't think it would have been about just Logan, but a lifetime of rage towards everyone.

    I think she would have disposed of him in the same place. Possibly put him in a dumpster if one was nearby in the park-like place.

    What I can't see her doing is 'gently', 'quietly' suffocating or overdosing him alone. She's just not a gentle, quiet person.

    I think any future efforts to search for Gabe's body should look further in the landfill, and also look to parks first, then park-like settings. All near the hotel. I don't think she'd have gone far at all.

  6. #6
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    These are all clickable, so as not to hog the thread. I have followed the ditch as best I could, first up to the interstate, then South off Prue rd. Ironic that there's a ditch, wooded area, and SAPD right there.

    View of ditch outside hotel

    From the interstate, looking South to the hotel

    From Prue Rd looking North toward hotel

    From Prue Rd looking South to wooded area (SAPD is on your right)...kiss my behind suckers comes to mind.

    Aerial veiw with my best guess as to the ditch path.
    Last edited by kissdegirl; 04-15-2010 at 11:45 AM.
    I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.
    ― Franklin D. Roosevelt


    Gabriel Johnson and Sylar Newton. Come home safely Gabriel Johnson! RIP Sweet Sylar.

  7. #7
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    I guess I have 2 ideas as to where he could be, if she killed him. 1st, is near the hotel because she would not want to risk being caught with him in her car to go get rid of him. I would guess she would go into a wooded are near the hotel when it was dark. In fact, if I lived there I would go for a walk through those wooded areas S. of the hotel and SAPD on Prue Rd.

    My 2nd thought is there may be some small truth the Victoria, TX rumor. Some of the other rumors that have come to light are not exactly what the rumors were (like the park, similar but not exact). So, maybe then she did drive South toward Victoria to get rid of him. But where? Would she have just driven blindly or would she have mapped something out on her GPS?

    Does Victoria use the same landfill as SA?
    Last edited by kissdegirl; 04-15-2010 at 12:47 PM.
    I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.
    ― Franklin D. Roosevelt


    Gabriel Johnson and Sylar Newton. Come home safely Gabriel Johnson! RIP Sweet Sylar.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by kissdegirl View Post
    I guess I have 2 ideas as to where he could be, if she killed him. 1st, is near the hotel because she would not want to risk being caught with him in her car to go get rid of him. I would guess she would go into a wooded are near the hotel when it was dark. In fact, if I lived there I would go for a walk through those wooded areas S. of the hotel and SAPD on Prue Rd.

    My 2nd thought is there may be some small truth the Victoria, TX rumor. Some of the other rumors that have come to light are not exactly what the rumors were (like the park, similar but not exact). So, maybe then she did drive South toward Victoria to get rid of him. But where? Would she have just driven blindly or would she have mapped something out on her GPS?

    Does Victoria use the same landfill as SA?
    We mapped out some times in one of these threads for Victoria. We've got a little more info now, so maybe we can pull that info in here, toss in the new info, and see what we come up with.

    Statistically, moms stay close to home, and the hotel in this case would have been her home point, but Elizabeth is an odd duck - I agree we need to look at Victoria and the route there.

    The Victoria info might be in the Roadtrip thread.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanE View Post
    We mapped out some times in one of these threads for Victoria. We've got a little more info now, so maybe we can pull that info in here, toss in the new info, and see what we come up with.

    Statistically, moms stay close to home, and the hotel in this case would have been her home point, but Elizabeth is an odd duck - I agree we need to look at Victoria and the route there.

    The Victoria info might be in the Roadtrip thread.
    I was thinking she would stay close to the hotel...that being her "home" while in SA. Her being so familiar with the area with her running around, I can also see how she would be able to tell LM the "exact location of...Gabriel" if it was familiar to her when she was in her safe location.
    I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.
    ― Franklin D. Roosevelt


    Gabriel Johnson and Sylar Newton. Come home safely Gabriel Johnson! RIP Sweet Sylar.

  10. #10
    A child's body has been found in a Texas park. The thread is here:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101584"]TX - Child's Body Found - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

    Please track the situation in that thread.

    BeanE


  11. #11
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    I Think because of Elizabeth's past- she would have killed him in a violent way. This killing would be a mixture of revenge, rage, resentment towards the baby for ruining her life, resentment towards Logan for ruining her life (in her twisted view) and also rage against Mom and Dad too- so yes, a lifetime of rage.

    The "blue" may suggest suffocation, strangling or drowning. I'm not a medical expert, but I think those types of deaths would result in a blue colored baby.

    Statistically, yes, they do dispose of the body near the home, in this case Homegate Hotel. And the park was where they baby was last seen, and also where she claimed the handoff took place. So the park may have a lot do with it. And yes, I agree, or a park like setting, where it's wooded with trees so better hide the body. Wooded area, lots of bushes, and trees are areas that most likely for a body to be disposed of so as to bettr hide it. I would not be surprised if and when he's found that a wooded area with trees and bushes would be the place. I'm purely speculating of course.

    It's a gruesome topic, and how she killed him and disposed of the body, but it's nearly 5 mos since this precious baby went missing, and I really don't see any other scenario besides this awful conclusion. Let's all pray some clues come to light or someone seen something that would help LE find this child.

    In the past, missing children like Mark Bookal was found very very near the home, and so was Caylee Anthony, so I think Raymond Rimkus Park, being very near Homegate Hotel is great place to start looking. Or, wooded areas near Raymond Rimkus Park. Just my theory...
    Last edited by Khristi; 04-15-2010 at 07:16 PM. Reason: missing words.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdegirl View Post
    I hate this.

    This clip from the KPHO video has always bothered me. I thought, she probably drowned him, maybe during his bathtime the night of the 26th. I thought, since she did it in water, she may have disposed of him in water since it was on her mind, and a ditch made sense, since it was right there. I reviewed the weather for that date, and it didn't rain, so water wouldn't be flowing in there, but I wondered if maybe she could have walked along the ditch to a more hidden area or a tunnel and left him there, thinking that the next rain would wash him away.

    I hate to even acknowledge these thoughts. I'm not ready. I think he's still out there alive.

    http://www.kpho.com/video/22494329/index.html

    Sa 12/26 Hi 60, Lo 33, Mostly Sunny
    Su 12/27 Hi 61, Lo 33, Overcast


    I think IF EJ killed him, she probably put a pillow over his face while he was sleeping off the baby tylenol.

    As far as disposing of the body, here's a thought. Go back to the laundomat. Maybe she dumped the body in a dumpster from the condos that the laundromat faces, and she was going to the laundromat every day until the day the dumpster was emptied - watching to see if anyone was scrounging through the dumpster, running across the body. (Anybody know the timeline of which days she was seen at the laundromat versus when garbage pickup was?)

    O/T - does anyone know if EJ's "journal" explains her visits to the laundromat?

    Just my opinion IF she did kill him (which I don't believe she did).

    ETA: Ok, I jumped the gun. I forgot that photos of Gabe were taken AFTER her visit to the laundromat - providing the date on the camera was correct and not monkeyed with to show an incorrect date on the photos.

    ETA (again): OR, she was at the laundromat to find out what days garbage was picked up, if she decided to kill Gabe so that the dumpster couldn't be tied back to the hotel where she was staying. Just playing Devil's Advocate here.
    Last edited by artsy1; 04-15-2010 at 07:53 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Khristi View Post
    And the park was where they baby was last seen, and also where she claimed the handoff took place.
    Gabe was never seen at a park. You can find all his sightings on the case calendar. His last sighting was on Dec 26 between 1 and 3pm at the hotel.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by artsy1 View Post
    I think IF EJ killed him, she probably put a pillow over his face while he was sleeping off the baby tylenol.

    As far as disposing of the body, here's a thought. Go back to the laundomat. Maybe she dumped the body in a dumpster from the condos that the laundromat faces, and she was going to the laundromat every day until the day the dumpster was emptied - watching to see if anyone was scrounging through the dumpster, running across the body. (Anybody know the timeline of which days she was seen at the laundromat versus when garbage pickup was?)

    O/T - does anyone know if EJ's "journal" explains her visits to the laundromat?

    Just my opinion IF she did kill him (which I don't believe she did).

    ETA: Ok, I jumped the gun. I forgot that photos of Gabe were taken AFTER her visit to the laundromat - providing the date on the camera was correct and not monkeyed with to show an incorrect date on the photos.

    ETA (again): OR, she was at the laundromat to find out what days garbage was picked up, if she decided to kill Gabe so that the dumpster couldn't be tied back to the hotel where she was staying. Just playing Devil's Advocate here.
    The laundromat was ruled out. Elizabeth was never there.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanE View Post
    The laundromat was ruled out. Elizabeth was never there.
    Thanks, BeanE! I must have missed that while I was moving recently.

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