NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #11

Please continue here.

Thread 10


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I have a question to SARX...from post #352

1,700 people? 15-20 ft apart?
How big of an area is this? and what is the terrain? Asking about the terrain because unless it's flat as a fritter and cement 15 to 20 feet apart is TOO FAR apart especially if you're looking for remains at this point. A proper line search is done 2 to 3 feet apart otherwise stuff gets missed.

After seeing pictures of the terrain that we searched, have you done a search in terrain like this? And if so do you still agree that we should still be 2 to 3 feet apart for our next search?

Hope to see you back on here soon...or somebody???...anybody???

Whoa---SK's FB page is being *invaded* again. I'm not a member so I can't report it.

Whoa---SK's FB page is being *invaded* again. I'm not a member so I can't report it.

I just went to SK's FB page and submitted a report on that post.

guitar3 said:

I have a question to SARX...from post #352

1,700 people? 15-20 ft apart?
How big of an area is this? and what is the terrain? Asking about the terrain because unless it's flat as a fritter and cement 15 to 20 feet apart is TOO FAR apart especially if you're looking for remains at this point. A proper line search is done 2 to 3 feet apart otherwise stuff gets missed.

After seeing pictures of the terrain that we searched, have you done a search in terrain like this? And if so do you still agree that we should still be 2 to 3 feet apart for our next search?

Hope to see you back on here soon...or somebody???...anybody???

Click to expand...

I have been on searches in terrain like this, and yes, you have to be a lot closer than 15-20 feet apart to ensure that you don't miss anything. It's amazing how many nooks and crannies there are in an area like that that is even relatively open. Light and shadow and even the time of day play a big role in what you're able to see as well.

Having said that though, it's not always feasible. You can't always get that many people, so you do what you can with what you DO have.

cats5vegas said:

Whoa---SK's FB page is being *invaded* again. I'm not a member so I can't report it.

I just went to SK's FB page and submitted a report on that post.

Click to expand...

Thank you, that was certainly helpful. Just a note, if you click on the QUOTE button in the left hand corner, it will bring the quote up in the reply box that you wish to respond to....you won't have to type it.

hollyblue said:

Thank you, that was certainly helpful. Just a note, if you click on the QUOTE button in the left hand corner, it will bring the quote up in the reply box that you wish to respond to....you won't have to type it.

Click to expand...

Thanks! I'm a newbie to WS so hadn't figured that out yet. But I'm a PRO on FB, so I did know how to report an inappropriate post.

Hi Guitar, yes, I'll just back up what canyon said. I would say that I stand by my initial statement even more after seeing the terrain. Very true, sometimes it's not feasible, but in a case like this where time is not really as crucial under the assumption you are looking for remains (not likely he'd be out there still alive, KWIM?) I would work smaller grids and just set up more searches to work a grid at a time if need be with the people I have to avoid leaving an area uncovered.
As to the 1700 people, 15-20 feet apart, if you use those numbers you would make a line approx. 6 1/2 miles long, that's a big area, much bigger than where the search took place . I don't see a grid search being organized being that the last one was so informal, so I don't know.

guitar3 said:

I have a question to SARX...from post #352

1,700 people? 15-20 ft apart?
How big of an area is this? and what is the terrain? Asking about the terrain because unless it's flat as a fritter and cement 15 to 20 feet apart is TOO FAR apart especially if you're looking for remains at this point. A proper line search is done 2 to 3 feet apart otherwise stuff gets missed.

After seeing pictures of the terrain that we searched, have you done a search in terrain like this? And if so do you still agree that we should still be 2 to 3 feet apart for our next search?

Hope to see you back on here soon...or somebody???...anybody???

Click to expand...

The SP search on the same day (the "professional" search) had only 60 searchers assigned to TEN SQUARE MILES -- and some of those were in the ultralights.

Frankly, if SK's search was for show, so was SP's (because I don't think she's anywhere near there ... and I believe LE knows that.)

cats5vegas said:

Thanks! I'm a newbie to WS so hadn't figured that out yet. But I'm a PRO on FB, so I did know how to report an inappropriate post.

Click to expand...

Both of them, right?

Were they looking for a body in the SP case (no familiar at all)? 60 searchers isn't enough for 10 square miles! But, it goes back to, if it's all you've got.... Also goes to if you're using pros, they should no how to track and do a number of other things that will make them more useful per person. Not a slam on community volunteers, but you would hope that people who spend a whole lot of time training would be better at searching than someone off the street. That's why we train.

sarx said:

Were they looking for a body in the SP case (no familiar at all)? 60 searchers isn't enough for 10 square miles! But, it goes back to, if it's all you've got.... Also goes to if you're using pros, they should no how to track and do a number of other things that will make them more useful per person. Not a slam on community volunteers, but you would hope that people who spend a whole lot of time training would be better at searching than someone off the street. That's why we train.

Click to expand...

A question: would trained and organized searchers generally participate in a search that's not sanctioned by law enforcement?

I agree, in slightly broken shrubby territory like that, you don't see things until you're right on top of them.

When I was on a missing persons search many years ago, in fairly similar territory, we had to walk close enough to keep arms around each other. This was partly to make sure we didn't miss anything and partly so if somebody stepped into a hidden old mine shaft, we could catch them. And that did happen in one of the other groups. Nobody saw it before the person almost fell in. (We presume that's what happened to our friend, but we never found him.)

We did find the remains of a winter-killed cow. Somebody stepped on that before she saw it, too.

Fortunately the person next to me did see the rattlesnake a couple of steps before we got to it...

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg241/LavandaDolce/StevenKoecher30MISSINGduringajobinN.jpg

Just something so we have his pic here.

laytonian said:

A question: would trained and organized searchers generally participate in a search that's not sanctioned by law enforcement?

Click to expand...

That really depends on where you are and who you are, but yes quite possibly. In many areas you would not be allowed to wear anything that showed you representing what group you belong to (so as not to confuse people into thinking it was a call out search). Some groups won't let you search on your own, you get in big trouble. Mostly what it means is you're not covered by insurance and don't represent the group. I've gone on plenty of searches w/o the group, I just made sure to never wear my uniform and not to talk about it to anyone so it didn't get publicized. I've also avoided many non LE searches because of the chaos and disorganization and knowing that I didn't want to be a part of it.

RubyRed said:

Steven Koecher poster


Just something so we have his pic here.

Click to expand...

I need to re-contact Naegle; I asked her (at the end of a long email about search issues last week) which of the many images of Steven, most closely resembles what he looked like before he disappeared.

If the 31 waist 32 inseam pants found during the search would be too small to fit him (as she indicated to me), I'm wondering if that first image is "Steven". Plus, if he's "out there" -- what would his hair and beard look like? If he were in hiding, would he have grown facial hair, and let his hair go long?

It sure has slowed down on this thread.

sarx said:

Were they looking for a body in the SP case (no familiar at all)? 60 searchers isn't enough for 10 square miles! But, it goes back to, if it's all you've got.... Also goes to if you're using pros, they should no how to track and do a number of other things that will make them more useful per person. Not a slam on community volunteers, but you would hope that people who spend a whole lot of time training would be better at searching than someone off the street. That's why we train.

Click to expand...

Here is a link to SP's search...with a slideshow. Although, I agree I don't think she is out there, to rule it out is not a bad thing. You will see these are motorized parachutes and not ultralights. If there were ultralights out there, no one took a pic to publish.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Nothing new found April 10

I'm sure I'm not the only one searching NAMUS databases for a match in this case.

Has anyone else noticed that there's only 21 entries for males found since Dec 12, 2009? Either the "found" cases we read on a daily basis are identified without further news reports, or there's a lot of ball-dropping.