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  1. #46
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    Dr. Phail...

    If you read FB, as I know you do, you have seen postings from SH peeps saying "GO AWAY MEDIA", making excuses for the bullies, blaming Phoebe, defending Smith and Sayer. Those comments give the appearance that they think Phoebe is an inconvenience, imo. Now, agreed...most people in SH may be hurt and wounded as you say. No argument, there. But they need to speak up. They need to make their voices heard above the nutbars. I know bear was not blanketing the whole town with that statement, I've read her posts, she has compassion. But...you must admit...it does look like "bizzarro land"?

    An underage drinker gets an over the limit charge????? Bizzarro, buddy...
    Last edited by Paladine; 04-21-2010 at 11:13 AM.


    “In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  2. #47
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    Dr. Phail...I certainly do love the way you write, at times...love this...thanks for the laugh!
    "people who have to pass through to get to Springfield you can hear their cardoor-locks plunk down as soon as they see the South Hadley sign."


    “In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  3. #48
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    Dr Phail, If more people like you spoke up then I am sure the general public would not view South Hadley so badly. I totally agree that most people here are most probably decent people but the sad thing is that the most vocal South Hadley residents seem to be the ones standing up for the bullies, the ones that will throw sly digs at Phoebe and her parents in order to make excuses for for the actions of a few.
    Also I think the biggest reason people are viewing South Hadley in a bad light is because of the way the school officials dealt with this case, with not an ounce of genuine compassion or sense of justice. They are the ones who (IMO) people are taking their lead from, especially the students. It was dealt with very badly from the start, no punishments meted out just some students (and not even all the students involved) asked to withdraw from the school. If they had come down more harshly on these students because they abhorred bullying, if they had shown people that they cared about what had happened to Phoebe I truly believe that the media would have looked away from South Hadley by now but all their actions immediately after it happened and in the following months showed them to be more worried about covering their own arses.
    Some of the students who I have seen post comments about leaving South Hadley alone etc. talk more about the effects on their own lives with little apparent compassion for Phoebe or her family, its more like "this happens all over the place, you can't do anything about it so just go away". It just comes across as cold and uncaring.
    Yes I have seen some lovely comments from people in South Hadley but they are just not as frequent sadly.
    This is just my opinion as a South Hadley outsider, I do not think the whole town is bad I just think it has a few bad eggs at its helm and same goes for the students of South Hadley, I think that most of the students are normal nice kids, same as anywhere, but its the mouthy, hard-necked, spoilt ones that seem to do most of the talking.
    Maybe its time for the good people of South Hadley, young and old to speak up and drown out the ones that are damaging your reputation.

  4. #49
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    OMG...WWLP is taking the essay to a WHOLE new level!! What a crock!! She was NOT talking about herself, it was a book report! I knew it'd come from WWLP. IMO...their coverage has not been balanced. WHO is this so-called DOCTOR?

    Notice the build up...NEW, DISTURBING, DETAILS...makes it sound BIG....it's a darn BOOK REPORT, idiots!

    SOUTH HADLEY, Mass. (WWLP) - There are new details emerging about Phoebe Prince, in the days and months before she committed suicide. School essays she wrote about "cutting", paint a disturbing picture about the freshman's emotional well-being.

    NBC News obtained two essays that Prince wrote for a South Hadley High School English class. On one of the essays, the 15 year-old wrote about a book she read called, "Cutting", written by a psychotherapist.

    Prince writes: "This book I really connected with, as I found there was truth in every word." She says self-mutilation is about "trying to transfer the pain from emotional to physical."

    Dr. Barry Sarvet, a Baystate Medical Center child psychiatrist, explained that cutting is a tell tale sign of depression.
    Cutting may be a sign of depression...but.....WE HAVE NO PROOF PHOEBE WAS A CUTTER! She simply WROTE an book report!

    AND...HOW does it matter??? It has no bearing on WHAT THEY DID! They STALKED, they HARASSED...so...if she had issues...IT'S OKAY???

    THIS is NOT relevant or accurate, imo...it's SPIN.

    http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/local/p...tting-in-class
    Last edited by Paladine; 04-21-2010 at 01:10 PM.


    “In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  5. #50
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    WHAT they DIDN'T print from Phoebez Blog..."people CLOSE to me" she WROTE! NOT HER! This makes me so angry...they actually CUT her sentence OFF to fit their premise!!

    From WWLP..
    SOUTH HADLEY, Mass. (WWLP) - There are new details emerging about Phoebe Prince, in the days and months before she committed suicide. School essays she wrote about "cutting", paint a disturbing picture about the freshman's emotional well-being.

    NBC News obtained two essays that Prince wrote for a South Hadley High School English class. On one of the essays, the 15 year-old wrote about a book she read called, "Cutting", written by a psychotherapist.

    Prince writes: "This book I really connected with, as I found there was truth in every word." She says self-mutilation is about "trying to transfer the pain from emotional to physical." Dr. Barry Sarvet, a Baystate Medical Center child psychiatrist, explained that cutting is a tell tale sign of depression.
    FROM PHOEBE....
    Some questions that arise from the book for me are; how does the author himself cope with dealing with such a morose field? How does he manage to understand what’s going on inside the self-mutilators head? I think Levenkron does a great job of bringing self mutilation a usually tabooed subject in our society to light. I think he wrote the piece to show that people shouldn’t be afraid of speaking out about self-mutilation and those who do it shouldn’t be condemned as selfish. This book I really connected with as I found there was truth in every word that Levenkron wrote and it helped me comprehend what people close to me have gone through.
    IF she'd gone through it, idiots at WWLP, she wouldn't have to TRY and COMPREHEND! AND WHY did you cut her sentence in HALF???

    http://phoebepenglish9e.blogspot.com...1_archive.html

    ETA: NOTICE...they changed her post to add a comma and cut off everything after "and"...OMG.
    Last edited by Paladine; 04-21-2010 at 01:15 PM.


    “In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladine View Post
    If you read FB, as I know you do, you have seen postings from SH peeps saying "GO AWAY MEDIA", making excuses for the bullies, blaming Phoebe, defending Smith and Sayer. Those comments give the appearance that they think Phoebe is an inconvenience, imo.
    I appreciate what you're saying. Don't allow those who are "blaming Phoebe" and/or coming out in support of Smith/Sayer to make you believe that they are representative of SH cuz they're not. These people represent SH as much as Al Queda represents Muslims or as much as The Trailer Park Boys are representative of Canadians.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paladine View Post
    Now, agreed...most people in SH may be hurt and wounded as you say. No argument, there. But they need to speak up. They need to make their voices heard.
    They tried to be heard. Be mindful of the fact that most media didn't latch onto this story until the latter part of March, about 72 days after Phoebe died, some of the National Media not going "full barrels" until April and other parts of the world not jumping in as late as April 7th or so.

    Most media came in with one focus. This was the story of a school administration that turned their back on a student, allowing her to be tormented before their eyes and eventually bullied to death.

    Then Sayer started talking.

    Had Sayer never opened his mouth MAYBE the media HAS to report on the community's pain...just to have footage of something but Sayer + Talking is not a good combination, dude is lame.

    Universe making a FUNNY by having this dude named "SAYer" cuz he's the LAST DUDE who should be saying ANYTHING. Universe's funny not so funny here though more aggravating, perplexing, mind numbingly dumb than funny.


    There was plenty of footage shot however by channel 22 and other "locals" directly after Jan 14 that CNN, NBC, CBS could easily have gotten, were offered likely HAD that they could run to show the absolutely heart wrenching devastation the community felt, had they wanted to portray South Hadley's reaction to this tragedy....they could have "squeezed this in" between Sayer's idiocy....which they should have done but they chose not to. Maybe that was in part bcuz of that 72 day delay but News producers are smart enough to know that if they do not show a town's sadness that a misconception about the town will follow. 22 and the other locals showed that side of course but 95% of those who have come to be invested in this story never saw any footage of the devastation this caused the community. Like I said in that other post: this was an Irish girl from the "homeland" where most of this area's ancestors came from and she was called Irish Slut by kids that only a teeny tiny minuscule portion of the town's population have any "allegiance" to and a hell of a lot MORE in the town who know anything at all about these kids know that, some of these kids, their (single) parents are headcases, possible white trash drug addicts or just parents who don't attempt to reign in their kids so they're not FANS of these kids.....the few that even friggin KNOW THEM!!!

    Really the only true exception to this is the Mulveyhills....generally regarded as "very good to great" parents, family known cuz they were active in sports, church....the community.....beyond them South Hadley's "perception" of these kids and their parents, to an overwhelming extent ....where any opinion on them even existed at all prior to this incident, pretty much falls off a cliff....

    If you could truly KNOW how ridiculous it is to think that SH is defending or on the "side of" Ashley and Sharon you would laugh out loud the idea is so absurd and so opposite the truth....Kayla and Flannery, theres some that will rise to their defense but mostly family and friends of these....more beyond these than for Ashley and Sharon...pretty much only family and close family friends there....don't expect to see a "We support Ashley Longe" page anytime soon and were one to come to be it'd have, like, 6 members.....anything above that would mean that 6 people created multiple facebook accounts to make it appear the club was less empty.

    Theres a reason you see only one (really) facebook page claiming support for a "bully" and thats for Sean Mulveyhill......

    more than a few people are really really puzzled by what the hell went wrong with this kid here......which is why I've been asking "why was Sean so mad at Phoebe".......I have gotten some opinions....the answer to that is gonna be very important. When and if it is known. Deal is with Sean that he was a snake, a flirt, a fake christian, a thief and a liar among other unsavory things but he (apparently) also had a good side (at some point at least) which is making people not just give up on him.

    Maybe they know why he was mad at Phoebe.....a few of them must anyway.

    I ain't made the right "contact" to feel like I've found this answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paladine View Post
    they (South Hadleyningas) need to speak up. They need to make their voices heard above the nutbars.
    Nutbars??!!??

    Must be a Canadian term.


    Right now much of the media is gone, finally. Even of they weren't though were SH residents to rise up and say "tell the truth of how the town FEELS" at this late hour that would come of as "on there they go thinking only of themselves.......how they look"

    Pretty much whats done is done.....not much they can say at this point. There is not alot of division in the town about Sayer seems overwhelmingly people want him gone

    Smith.....lotta people have love for Smith and the fact is that theres people who maintain that there were links in the armor beneath Smith, as principal, that are in place to get aware of bullying issues and bring these to his attention when warranted.....others say he's the principal he should have known PERIOD.

    We gotta get more specifics on Phoebe's visit to whomever it was on the 7th Jan. and details on what was discussed in her Mom's 2 visits to the school.

    I sense that Phoebe was less than totally "forthcoming" about the depth of the bullying problem...what was at its root, I wouldn't be surprised if even its revealed that Mrs. Prince went in on her own, and not at Phoebe's request....all I mean by this is if Mrs. Prince didn't realize the depth of the problem perhaps she was less demanding than she would have been that a solution be found immediately....we just don't have enough details on what took place in these meetings, hopefully we will oneday.

    Of paramount importance is the fact that the 2nd group, Sharon/Flannery it appears do not really "get going" on bullying Phoebe until approx. Jan 5th....maybe later....I don;t know for sure seems I have heard that they did some stuff prior to Christmas Break which would have been in Dec. but I only saw that stated in one place......kids I have talked with (that even knew at all) said they didn't know That Phoebe had beef with Flannery until January just before Sharon got suspended which was Jan. 7th....

    You can say all you want that "they knew" but until we get some sort of time line that includes details of what was discussed within meetings the only people who can say for sure what they knew is admin of the school and Mrs. Prince.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paladine View Post
    I know bear was not blanketing the whole town with that statement, I've read her posts, she has compassion.
    I am sorry for coming off like I was blasting bear, the "you" I used there was intended as a general you but I know it didn't come across that way. I have no stake on repairing the image of South Hadley just every single person I have talked to said the same thing, the pain was real and intense at the loss of Phoebe.

    Plus bears are scary.

    I think theres maybe no more scary animal than a bear.

    Okay, maybe a tiger. And a shark. and a havelina....they're more scary than a bear but thats all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paladine View Post
    But...you must admit...it does look like "bizzarro land"?

    An underage drinker gets an over the limit charge????? Bizzarro, buddy...
    yeah well I won't argue with that. Its definitely a weird little town in some ways but, man, most people there were totally crushed by this thing.

    I mean, the key thing to focus upon here is even though Pheebz was born in England she was in Ireland since she was 2 and she was an Irish Girl through and through and many people saw their "Mums", grandmums, in Pheebz.....

    she was Irish just like they are. The more people learned of this thing the sicker they became, literally heartsick....and thats no over cause the docs we got I understand are just "joinders", not designed to lay out in great detail the totality of incidents upon which charges are based so along with the trashing of Phoebe we got a bunch more shoes maybe yet to fall re: details of what these little sociopath monsters actually DID to poor Pheebz.
    Last edited by Dr. Phail; 04-21-2010 at 12:57 PM.

  7. #52
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    I know that a large part of what first got me interested in this story, as an outsider, someone who does not live in or near the town & was not immediately affected by what happened, was the comments being made both in news stories (Angeles Chanon saying, basically, 'Kids call names, what's the big deal?') and in the comments to the news stories (the endless stream of 'kids will be kids', 'girls are mean, she should have just learned to deal with it', 'boys will be boys & will do anything for sex, that's just the way it is', etc.)

    What concerned me in that & what made me feel like I needed to read more, to try to understand, was the lack of substantial follow-up from anyone saying "Yes, kids do bad things, that's true. That's why they have parents, to teach them how and why what they're doing is wrong." It seemed, from the imbalance in the comments being made, that society as a whole, at least as it applied to this high school in this community, had given up on saying 'this is wrong behavior' to their children.

    And, yes, it's the internet - so, there is always likely to be a disproportionate representation of people who feel strongly & have enough time on their hands to post about their feelings. I know that. But, even then, I still don't see many people saying "Hey, wait a minute, I live here and I think these kids were wrong in what they did".

    It leaves me, the outside viewer & a parent of elementary aged children -and- a teen, with the worry that, maybe, this 'giving up on teaching our kids that some things are just wrong' *is* a societal trend & something that I should be concerned about. It leaves me feeling like a 'grumpy old man' talking about 'parents these days'.

    So I, for one, would be thrilled if the adults of South Hadley showed me that my impression was wrong - that they are still willing to correct children & teens when they make the mistakes that children & teens will make, instead of just shrugging their shoulders, saying 'kids will be kids' and walking away.

  8. #53
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    So, to put it more succinctly. I'm sure that people were sad when a teen in their community killed herself. In fact, it might sound cold, but I'm not sure whether that matters to me.

    What I'd like to know is whether people in the community (and in the world at large) are OK with kids being cruel to other kids, these days. That they accept that behavior as unchangeable and think that the only thing that can and should be done is to teach kids how to cope with the unchangeable, inevitable cruelty that will be directed at them.

  9. #54
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    Wow...so glad you posted, Maureen. Great post.

    and...my comment...I co-sign what YOU said...lol...


    “In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  10. #55
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    Dr. Phail...please...shhh...between you and me...some of my dear fellow Canadians are like the Trailer Park Boys...lol...imo, that's why some of us find it so funny! We love 'em...
    Last edited by Paladine; 04-21-2010 at 02:03 PM.


    “In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.


  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paladine View Post
    Dr. Phail...please...shhh...between you and me...some of my dear fellow Canadians are like the Trailer Park Boys...lol...imo, that's why some of us find it so funny! We love 'em...
    I love them too. Alot. Ain't seen em lately tho save for an appearance on some talk show promoting a movie...I think they're not doing the show anymore.

    I drove sedan taxi and limousine for awhile so dealt with alot of Canadians this place is LOUSY with Canadians from about October till April which made me know that example was gonna accomplish, with you at least, the total OPPOSITE of what I had hoped to illustrate cuz 9.4 out of every 10 Canadians I ever dealt with they were TOTALLY like the Trailer Park Boys with either a Rum and Coke constantly in their hand, completely confused and wearing coke bottle glasses or with no shirt on and no hint that they even OWNED a shirt....

    or all of the above...at once.

    Got to where I could spot them on the street, I'd stop and chat with them cuz I like Canadians and they'd invariably share their Rum and Coke with me. The only ones that wasn't exactly like the Trailer Park Boys that I ever met at least was Senior Citizens who I didn't meet many cuz they was vacationing here and wouldn't leave their condos cuz they was afraid of getting hurt and having to pay for an American hospital.....

    which, I don't know, something like if they could wait to get hurt till they got back to Canada they'd get repaired for free.....made no sense to me, might to you.

  12. #57
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    Today Show Video
    [ame="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/36684580#36684580"]msnbc.com Video Player[/ame]


    “In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  13. #58
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    Totally OT: Dr. Phail, we have universal healthcare! Those senior citizens and every Canadian DOES get "repaired for free" ! LOL!

    Well, sort of free...we pay taxes that pay for it...but when I go to the Dr. or Hospital I pay NOTHING out of pocket...save parking.

    And "nutbar" may be a Canadian term...lol...I never knew it, though...I thought others used that term, as well.
    Last edited by Paladine; 04-21-2010 at 02:38 PM.


    “In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  14. #59
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    Want to thank everyone for posting new articles and information daily. Saves time and is easier than tracking them down myself on google. One question though...

    Is there an ignore feature?

    One of the regular posters on here is beyond annoying. She comes off as an apologist for the bullies and I've grown sick of her posts. Especially because I hope every last one of these kids are shunned from colleges and are forced to work crappy jobs the rest of their lives. They've shown no remorse and they are no better than the Ted Bundy's of the world in my opinion.

    Thanks to rest of you though!

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by howdydodat View Post
    Want to thank everyone for posting new articles and information daily. Saves time and is easier than tracking them down myself on google. One question though...

    Is there an ignore feature?

    One of the regular posters on here is beyond annoying. She comes off as an apologist for the bullies and I've grown sick of her posts. Especially because I hope every last one of these kids are shunned from colleges and are forced to work crappy jobs the rest of their lives. They've shown no remorse and they are no better than the Ted Bundy's of the world in my opinion.

    Thanks to rest of you though!
    Hey...welcome!

    And there IS an ignore button...but after 2 years here...I don't know where it is. I have high tolerance and am very nosy. I'm sure someone with pop in and answer your question, soon.

    It is best to ignore...rather than getting pulled into an argument, imo...I'm a peace loving Christian hippie...ain't that a mouthful?...lol...I never fight.
    Last edited by Paladine; 04-21-2010 at 04:58 PM.


    “In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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