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  1. #1
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    2010.04.23 FBI Lab Submissions/Key Items LIST ONLY

    The following will be very difficult to explain. I hope it will be a starting point in order to discuss some of the following items that OSCO submitted to the FBI for testing.

    To begin with, an old note I made from the May 1, 2009 Doc Dump, Pgs. 3796/7 ~
    Q59 - Caucasion Hair Mass / hairs do not match anyone but match Q12.1 - no known hair sample.

    Q59 (as far as I can tell) is associated with duct tape


    Q107 seems a key item in Docs. today

    Here's the problem - the number of an item changes from OSCO to the FBI. The FBI assigns a new number.
    To add confusion, both OSCO and FBI use numbers that begin with the letter Q.

    When OSCO found a group of evidence on December 11, 2008, where Caylee's remains were found, they assigned a number such as

    H-60518 ~ under this a group of items was listed, #1 to the final number of items in that group.

    #1 is Disney Bag (but the FBI assigns a new number with a Q)

    I noticed that they are interested in the "World of Disney Bag" and it looks like that number is Q89 (it's listed as #1 in group H-60518)

    #4 - H-60418 is Q91 (OSCO uses Q numbers too just to confuse things!) ~
    Two pharmacy folds of paper used to place Art. #1-3 on for photography

    I wanted to know what items #1-3 are (pdf. 149/50 cfnews13) and found the following:

    #1 Disney Bag (Q89 is associated but I'm not sure who assigned)
    #2 Nothing listed for number two (wth?) just skips to #3 with no blank space between 1 and 3.
    #3 One Gatorade "Cool Blue" bottle with unknown liquid substance, possible toilet paper roll cardboard and unknown item inside roll (Q90 is referenced)

    what and where is #2? Later on pdf.176 ~
    OSC Property Form dated 12-11-09, recv'd.1515, I see,

    #2 - 1 Vial of sus Entomology Evidence from off of above ALT #1 Disney Bag


    To make matters more confusing, I notice the following

    Q107 (H-60518) #4 Q91 Two Pharmacy folds of paper used to place Art. #1-3 on for photography.
    There's a note that says FBI has changed the Q107 number to another before placing it on a slide.

    Q107 had head hair (caucasion) not same as found on Q59 & K2 and not belonging to scene investigators 1-7.

    As much as I can figure, they have a hair that is unidentified and needed to rule out that it came from an Agent. I'm not sure if the hair was found on duct tape or was on the Disney Bag - it seems to be one of those though.


    If anybody can figure any of this out or see things clearly, please let us know.
    Last edited by Woe.be.gone; 04-23-2010 at 10:03 PM.

  2. #2
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    Woe...we had a slight discussion about the hair today in the Defense Strategy? thread It was my understanding that the hair is from the Disney Bag. I may be mistaken though. I will have to look at the documents again!

  3. #3
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    The gatorade bottle that came out of the disney bag was put on brown paper to be photographed and the hair is on the paper. Thats how I understood it.

  4. #4
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    IIRC, the FBI isn't handling the entomological evidence - other such evidence from the trunk and TL's trash bag were sent to a bug expert. So, perhaps this vial (item #2) was also. Just a guess.

  5. #5
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    http://www.wftv.com/pdf/18740700/detail.html
    page 3705 (or PDF pg. 115)

    The Q-107 is the FBI's number, on their report they cross-reference the OCSO's numbers which are H-60518, the property form I linked above on which the OC 'Q' numbers were handwrote.

    The hair was found on a pharmacy fold of paper that was used to place under items #1-3 for photography. Items 1-3 are as follows:
    1. "World of Disney" bag
    2. Vial of sus. entymology evidence collected from #1 above, the Disney bag
    3. Gatorade bottle with unknown liquid substance, possible toilet paper cardboard & unknown item inside roll

    Since the hair was found on the paper upon which the above items were set it could have originated from any of those items or from LE personnel handling those items. From a previous doc dump we know the hair is not from KC or Caylee and from this doc dump we know it is not from any LE tech that handled the evidence.

  6. #6
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    don't we have threads on most of these items? or is this all new?

  7. #7
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    An unidentifed hair from a Disney bag could have come from a Disney employee. Obviously something was put in the bag from a Disney store so the hair could have come from any number of sources, including where it orginated. jmo

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
    An unidentified hair from a Disney bag could have come from a Disney employee. Obviously something was put in the bag from a Disney store so the hair could have come from any number of sources, including where it orginated. jmo
    Hi lambchop. I haven't posted in a while. But I just wanted to add, I have never had a hair from an employee in any of my shopping bags, I don't think. But in this case, wouldn't it just be the case and add more confusion to this craziness?
    Kathi Belich Is My Hero!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBean View Post
    don't we have threads on most of these items? or is this all new?
    I looked but didn't find a thread about the Disney Bag or 'hairs found' or even 'numbering systems', etc.
    The general Doc.Dump thread had already been locked so I started this thread knowing you'd move it if it fit better somewhere else.
    It doesn't really fit under a specific item per se imo.

    I'm trying to sort out if there are two questionable hairs in the case (Q59) or just the one that was found on the photo paper
    (Q-107 but I think the FBI changed the number for the hair when they put it on a slide).
    Some of the same forms have been released time and time again so I figured there must be something new about the info contained on them.

    Did anyone notice on a Property Form dated December 12, 2008, the following? (pdf. 113/289 cfnews13)

    Item 11 - 1 - Small black plastic bag, tied with unknown contents and "Hershey's" wrapper (A)

    Off to the right hand margin next to Item 11 there's a hand drawn arrow pointing to the above with the word 'This' written there as to draw attention to item 11.

    I don't recall this item being discussed before.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by treeseeker View Post
    IIRC, the FBI isn't handling the entomological evidence - other such evidence from the trunk and TL's trash bag were sent to a bug expert. So, perhaps this vial (item #2) was also. Just a guess.
    Why remove it from the Property form though? The item was collected from where the Disney bag was found. When they transfer items, they fill out other forms showing the item has changed hands or put into storage, etc.

    Just seemed weird that they indicated #4 (paper) contained #1 through #3 but then they removed #2 from the list so you couldn't tell what #2 was.

    A long time ago I heard in Discovery they sometimes bury or switch up information so it's not too clear what's going on.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tracey276 View Post
    Hi lambchop. I haven't posted in a while. But I just wanted to add, I have never had a hair from an employee in any of my shopping bags, I don't think. But in this case, wouldn't it just be the case and add more confusion to this craziness?
    Does Mickey Mouse have hair? Could be his.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone View Post
    I looked but didn't find a thread about the Disney Bag or 'hairs found' or even 'numbering systems', etc.
    The general Doc.Dump thread had already been locked so I started this thread knowing you'd move it if it fit better somewhere else.
    It doesn't really fit under a specific item per se imo.

    I'm trying to sort out if there are two questionable hairs in the case (Q59) or just the one that was found on the photo paper
    (Q-107 but I think the FBI changed the number for the hair when they put it on a slide).
    Some of the same forms have been released time and time again so I figured there must be something new about the info contained on them.

    Did anyone notice on a Property Form dated December 12, 2008, the following? (pdf. 113/289 cfnews13)

    Item 11 - 1 - Small black plastic bag, tied with unknown contents and "Hershey's" wrapper (A)

    Off to the right hand margin next to Item 11 there's a hand drawn arrow pointing to the above with the word 'This' written there as to draw attention to item 11.

    I don't recall this item being discussed before.
    IIRC, Q59 is Caylee's hair that was found with her remains on Suburban. It is a hair mass that did have duct tape attached to it and had to be cut off. So, as far as I know there is only one unidentified piece of hair from the scene. I think we see the same forms in multiple doc dumps because a copy of every single form ever produced goes with each piece of evidence whenever it is transferred between agencies or even departments within the same agency. It's just a chain of custody protocol, doesn't mean there's always new info.

    Regarding item #2, the entomological evidence from the disney bag, being blanked out from the form to the FBI, I think Treeseeker is right. It wasn't sent to the FBI for examination so someone just marked it off the form.

    Interesting about the tied black bag. Contents unknown? I don't recall this being discussed before either.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dear Prudence View Post
    IIRC, Q59 is Caylee's hair that was found with her remains on Suburban. It is a hair mass that did have duct tape attached to it and had to be cut off. So, as far as I know there is only one unidentified piece of hair from the scene. I think we see the same forms in multiple doc dumps because a copy of every single form ever produced goes with each piece of evidence whenever it is transferred between agencies or even departments within the same agency. It's just a chain of custody protocol, doesn't mean there's always new info.

    Regarding item #2, the entomological evidence from the disney bag, being blanked out from the form to the FBI, I think Treeseeker is right. It wasn't sent to the FBI for examination so someone just marked it off the form.

    Interesting about the tied black bag. Contents unknown? I don't recall this being discussed before either.
    In a previous Doc Dump Page 3796-7 it states ~
    Q59 Causasion Hair Mass/hairs do not match anyone but match Q12.1
    but no known head hair sample.

    I think the above is in the Docs released 5-1-09 (I'll go look - my notes are crappy).

    Also I'll check out exactly what form I was looking at where #2 is not listed as I thought it was a copy of the OSCO Property form. Do you think LE simply submits a copy of that to the FBI? Because there is no blank line between items 1 and 3.

    Yes black bag tied with Hershey's wrapper.
    Last edited by Woe.be.gone; 04-24-2010 at 08:43 PM.

  14. #14
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    maybe that hair belongs to DC?

    "The only one I have pictures of, is my daughter. I wish she was going to be there Great. Iím going to make myself cry, if Iím not careful. HmmÖ I wonder what Iím missing for lunch. If Iím not careful, I may end up enjoying my absence today. At least I will miss one crappy meal."

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by treeseeker View Post
    IIRC, the FBI isn't handling the entomological evidence - other such evidence from the trunk and TL's trash bag were sent to a bug expert. So, perhaps this vial (item #2) was also. Just a guess.
    Good guess! I think you're right. I looked again where I saw the #1 and #3 items listed (without the #2) and there's a cover letter prior to the list that states "Evidence Being Submitted". The letter is from Orlando Sheriff's Office to the FBI.

    Furthermore, I read the following paragraph on an FBI Report (handwritten pg. 5595) of 5/1/09 Doc Dump; it reads, "Botanical examinations are not currently being conducted in the Federal Bureau of Investigation Laboratory. ..."

    So much for my mysterious discovery - ha!

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