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Thread: Phone records

  1. #1
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    Phone records

    sorry i'm new here and haven't been following the case for long so this may be a stupid question:

    did the ramsey's make any phone calls after they got back from the christmas party? did they have a cell phone? could they have left the house in the middle of the night without being seen?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega
    sorry i'm new here and haven't been following the case for long so this may be a stupid question:

    did the ramsey's make any phone calls after they got back from the christmas party? did they have a cell phone? could they have left the house in the middle of the night without being seen?

    The answers to all three of your questions is YES. However, all of the phone records are not available to verify your first question.

    JMO

  3. #3
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    phone records

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    The answers to all three of your questions is YES. However, all of the phone records are not available to verify your first question.

    JMO

    Regarding the missing phone records, it's my belief that John Ramsey called personal friend and corporate attorney Mike Bynum very early on the morning of the murder -- probably somewhere between 2 A.M. and 4 A.M. Bynum's lawfirm is powerful and employs hundreds of lawyers. IMO Bynum set the Ramsey coverup into motion by calling Alex Hunter's office, the Boulder D.A. There's an indication that even the Governor Romer's office became involved (The Democrats had total control of Colorado at that time).

    The grand jury subpoenaed the phone records in 1998.

    After numerous delays and footdragging by the Boulder D.A.'s office, the cops finally got the Ramsey phone records, I think in 1998 or 1999. The records showed NO CELL PHONE CALLS WERE MADE BY THE RAMSEYS FOR THE MONTH OF DECEMBER, 1996!

    It was an incredibly brazen coverup that goes unchallenged even today by Boulder authorities and speaks volumes about what likely happened.

    IMO the phone records for December, if not tampered with, would have solved the case.

    JMO

  4. #4
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    For the Ramseys to claim, and expect the public to buy that there were NO cell phone calls made at all during the month of December by them is laughable.
    I have always suspected that things were "taken care of" in that department for the Ramseys by their "connections".
    Why would the District Attorney for instance, refuse to authorize the police to subpeona such a BASIC item as phone records???? It makes no sense and stinks to high heaven IMO. No logical excuse can be put forth.
    And low and behold .... once the records ARE finally made available - there are no records.
    Give me a break.
    It's not like it was only the first or second day of the month of December where perhaps the cell phone might not have been used - it was the END OF THE MONTH!
    I don't believe it for a second.

    But I have another question. Were MIKE BYNUM'S cell phone records sought?
    If John Ramsey phoned him during the middle of the night, and Bynum was up skiing somewhere - there should be a record of that phone call either at the place Bynum was staying or on his cell phone.
    Unless John Ramsey KNEW where Bynum was vacationing (not likely) he most likely would have called his cell phone if he indeed did try and call him that night.

    Didn't John Ramsey make a phone call to a friend high up in the Colorado government? The Attorney General or something? Gail S. someone??
    What was THAT all about??????
    This post is my opinion.

  5. #5
    I agree, I always though something was very wrong when the phone records were "wiped clean."

  6. #6
    What was their pattern of use for other months? Back in 96/97 cell phones weren't the ubiquitous belt attachments they are today. They were great, clunking receivers. My sister had one and it wasn't something you could conveniently stick in your purse. Pagers were the gadget of the moment.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipper
    What was their pattern of use for other months? Back in 96/97 cell phones weren't the ubiquitous belt attachments they are today. They were great, clunking receivers. My sister had one and it wasn't something you could conveniently stick in your purse. Pagers were the gadget of the moment.
    Then why have one at all?
    The Ramseys DID own one. They obviously intended to use it.
    To not have one single phone call recorded during a busy month like December - is just very suspicious given everything else surrounding this case.

    And that's just a fact.
    This post is my opinion.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tipper
    What was their pattern of use for other months? Back in 96/97 cell phones weren't the ubiquitous belt attachments they are today. They were great, clunking receivers. My sister had one and it wasn't something you could conveniently stick in your purse. Pagers were the gadget of the moment.

    Patsy got a new cell phone as a gift from John that Christmas. John already had one.

    Cell phones were popular by 1996. Even I had one by then, and I'm not much of a talker.

    JMO

  9. #9
    When my sister got hers the best plan pricewise was to pay for a year's use in advance. She got it because her husband was dying of cancer and she wanted to be sure he could call her if he needed to whenever she was out. After he died I think it only got used once or twice during the remaining months of the contract.

  10. #10
    Patsy admits their making a call besides the Fernies and Whites...and that is to Rod Westmoreland...before the police arrive.

    NE BOOK:

    TT: Who, who all was, where was John at the time that the officer arrived?

    PR: Oh, I don't, I don't know, I remember I, I don't know where he was. I walked out onto the front step there and I was just, I was just kind of out of it. I was hysterical. I said that there was a note and that out daughter had been kidnapped and WE WERE TRYING TO GET THE MONEY and I don't, I don't remember.
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98

  11. #11
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    Originally posted by BlueCrab
    Regarding the missing phone records, it's my belief that John Ramsey called personal friend and corporate attorney Mike Bynum very early on the morning of the murder -- probably somewhere between 2 A.M. and 4 A.M.
    I agree, BC. To support that theory...in a Larry King Live interview, didn't John put his foot in his mouth and say there was a lot of commotion in the house at 2 a.m., because of somebody coming over?

    imo

  12. #12
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    The records were wiped, that's a fact. Even the BPD used the Ramsey's cell phones on 12/26/1996, yet no calls were showing as air time minutes used for the entire month. That just doesn't happen with a carrier....even "free" minutes show as air time used.

    IMO John Ramsey, Mr Software Developer was able to call in a favor and have everything wiped from his and Patsy's cell phone records or there would have been calls made showing!

  13. #13
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    I guess I am just different....I have had a cell phone for years, and sometimes I don't even turn it on. I have it to carry with me in the car in case of an emergency. I do NOT chat on it with friends, I do that at home. So I have had months with not one single call on it. If I make any calls at all it is a very quick "I am on my way home, do you need anything?" call...and that is rare.

    The phone I had back in 96 was a pain in the butt to carry around and it was considered back then to be a more compact version of a cell phone (the original flip phones). So it is not at all odd to me to not use one.

    The records being gone, is suspicious though. Surely the phone carrier company has access to those records. I never keep any of my phone bills (in house or cell) so they should be able to get them from the company. IF they are mysteriously gone, then yes, that is a red flag for me.

  14. #14
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    "What was their pattern of use for other months? Back in 96/97 cell phones weren't the ubiquitous belt attachments they are today. They were great, clunking receivers. My sister had one and it wasn't something you could conveniently stick in your purse. Pagers were the gadget of the moment."


    i agree that cell phones weren't as common back in 1996, but we have to remember that John Ramsey was a high level business man, not a housewife who needs a cell phone in case her car breaks down. i find it VERY difficult to believe that someone like John, particularly around christmas time when he would probably be spending less time at work, would not make or receive any calls on his cell phone.

  15. #15
    perhaps he never figured out how to use the contraption

  16. #16

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega
    "What was their pattern of use for other months? Back in 96/97 cell phones weren't the ubiquitous belt attachments they are today. They were great, clunking receivers. My sister had one and it wasn't something you could conveniently stick in your purse. Pagers were the gadget of the moment."


    i agree that cell phones weren't as common back in 1996, but we have to remember that John Ramsey was a high level business man, not a housewife who needs a cell phone in case her car breaks down. i find it VERY difficult to believe that someone like John, particularly around christmas time when he would probably be spending less time at work, would not make or receive any calls on his cell phone.

    Well Windows95 was in PC's the 911 call from party could have been from the Computer. Thoughts?

  17. #17
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    records

    While it would make the picture clearer with the phone records, the fact they weren't availavle doesn't necessarily point to any subterfuge. Phone companies are big places, with a lot of dept.s that don't know what each other is doing. Any number of things could have happened to the records, if they were even preserved in the first place. For example, a DP employee accidently writes over a master tape that contained the records from the Ramseys tel. prefix, which was supposed to be saved for , say, 3 years. After communication going thru 5-6 people before the author of a book reports on it, there would be no way of knowing exactly what happened to the records. I'd have to put the conspiracy theory about next to last of all things that might explain the lack of records.
    This is my opinion, and change is good.

  18. #18
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    Yes, vicktor, except that it seems just a little too convenient that these particular records are unavailable...records that could help solve the mysterious death of the phone owner's daughter.

    imo

  19. #19
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    theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy
    just a little too convenient that these particular records are unavailable.

    imo
    To make a point specifically in this instance and in general, When something ( like phone records) normally are, always are, should be, must be, you think would be, have to be, are required to be, available, but then aren't, it gives rise to a conspiracy theory. Its the idea that when ever anything turns out differently than the observer thinks it should it's because other people consciously took action to deliberately alter the outcome. In fact life in general is the same way, in terms of how it operates.
    This is my opinion, and change is good.

  20. #20
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    vicktor, I see your point. Do you happen to know how many phone records out of say, 100, or even 1000, are lost or inadvertently deleted? How common is it, really?

    imo

  21. #21

    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy
    Yes, vicktor, except that it seems just a little too convenient that these particular records are unavailable...records that could help solve the mysterious death of the phone owner's daughter.

    imo
    Or records who's content could nail you to the wall.

    It would not be hard to purposely transpose the records of the Ramseys with those of say a client who indeed did not make a single call in the month of December. With today's technology it would be less likely to happen on it's own. Just backspace and change a digit in the phone number until you find one with no calls and attach that as the December statement. Databases and computer files are flexible in many regards. Because woman change their names when they marry almost every database allows for the very name on an account to be open to alteration.

    I agree there is a conspiracy...

    http://www.geocities.com/pinker44

  22. #22
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    I think it would be important to compare the Ramsey's cell phone records of previous months to get an idea of the average amount of minutes they typically used in a month to see if NO minutes used during December made sense or not.

    Me thinks it made no sense and someone deleted the record for December because it was somehow incriminating.

    But why would they use a cell phone to call, say Bynum, and not their regular phone?
    This post is my opinion.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCrab
    Patsy got a new cell phone as a gift from John that Christmas. John already had one.

    ...

    JMO
    I didn't know that. Had she lost hers? Perhaps that would account for the lack of calls. Did they have separate lines? We have two cells with different phone numbers. Mr. tipper uses his for business and doesn't want it ringing in the middle of a meeting because some kid is trying to arrange a basketball game with the teen tippers. I wouldn't be surprised if the Ramsey house was the same.

  24. #24
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    There are apparently references to Patsy's cell phone and her cell phone records in DOI (hb), on pages 342 and 379-380. All I have is the pb and don't have time to sift through it looking for the info. Anyone have the hardback? If so, it would great if you'd post the info here. Thanks.

    imo

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