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Thread: UT - Ethan Stacy, 4, Layton, 10 May 2010 - #5

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calliope View Post
    Ethan's obituary


    Ethan is survived by his loving father – Joe Gary Stacy and his fianc้ Becky Leigh Elswick of Richlands, Virginia, One sister – Alisa Destiny Stacy, Mt. Carmel, IL, One Brother – Destrian Jonathan David Stacy, Mt. Carmel, IL, Paternal Grandmother – Peggy Jo and her husband David Akers, Grundy, VA, Paternal Grandfather – Gary Steven and his wife Freda Stacy, Hurley, VA, Maternal grandparents – John and Katrina Busby, Apopka, FL
    BBM.

    This strikes me as strange.

    My understanding is that the mediated divorce agreement included a provision that momsters' parents were prohibited from contact with Ethan, and *also* with SS. In my experience--and I'm very familiar with family law in my state, but *not* in Utah (I practiced family law in my state for 6 years, but am not doing so currently)--this is semi-enforceable. There can be a condition of placement that says when a child is with a parent, they will not allow the child to have contact with person X. However, there cannot be a provision that says "Person X will not contact (child, parent, etc.)", *unless* Person X was a party to the action (to give Person X a chance to contest, etc.).

    I've seen some discussion on here wondering about the ban on contact from SS's parents with both SS and Ethan--I've wondered as well. I'm assuming that Ethan's dad gave the info for this obituary. Since the obituary writer includes the information regarding maternal grandparents--I'm guessing (a guess only) that the ban on contact was something SS insisted on.

    I wonder why????

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muffet View Post
    I think the absolute best news of the weekend is monkeymama's news that Utah doesn't allow insanity defenses.

    Link
    I"m not really sure about that...
    In Utah you have to be found competent to stand trial.

    You can read more about Brian David Mitchell and Wanda Barzee
    Here: [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart_kidnapping"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart_kidnapping[/ame]


    Brian David Mitchell (born October 18, 1953) and his wife Wanda Ileen Barzee
    were indicted by a Utah grand jury. Mitchell's trial on these charges was
    initially postponed following a court ruling that he was not mentally
    competent to stand trial. U.S. District Court Judge Dale Kimball later
    overturned this ruling; a trial date is pending.[28]

    For several months, Mitchell and Barzee were held on US$10 million bond
    awaiting the outcome of mental competency tests. Prosecutors said that
    Mitchell and Barzee kidnapped Elizabeth to be Mitchell's "second wife",
    [citation needed] held her against her will in the foothills near Arlington Hills
    until October 8,[citation needed] and then took her to California, where they
    stayed until March 5.[citation needed]


    In January 2004, Barzee was found incompetent to stand trial on charges
    including kidnapping, sexual assault, and burglary. On July 26, 2005, Mitchell
    was also found incompetent to stand trial, facing the same charges. A
    district judge has ordered him held until he is deemed fit for trial.[29][30]
    Barzee's condition has not improved since she was found incompetent to
    stand trial. Barzee has also refused to take medication "that might restore
    her mental competence."[31]


    Also see:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competence_(law)

    I believe now that Mitchell and Barzee have been found competent to stand
    trial now... but I think that if they had not been found competent they
    would have been able to use it as their defense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valleyboy View Post
    Not so sure that Joe and Michelle have such a good relationship if you can believe the last paragraph in the following publication on Friday on the Deseret News

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...cys-death.html

    In other court documents obtained by the Deseret News Thursday, Joe Stacy filed for a protective order in 2007 against another spouse, Michelle Rodriguez, whom he also feared would take his children and flee to London while he was away on military duty.

    Joe Stacy claimed in court documents that Rodriguez pulled a knife on him, slapped their kids, left them alone in a room while she went to a bar and then brought men back to the apartment to have sexual relations while the children were still there.


    I had heard about a restraining order......also in another news item I saw Joe was quoted as saying that Stephanie had abandoned Ethan and another 2 children from a previous marriage in October.......made me think that maybe these two children were living with Joe and Stephanie for a while as well.....

    Look if you ask me they were all jumping into and from relationships way too quickly for my liking when kids are involved.........she just ended up with Nathan scum after bearly knowing him and meeting him on the internet and became pregnant within 2 months of being with him, and he has met and become engaged within 8 months of her leaving!

    sorry to be judgemental here but this too me happens way too much and way too quickly when there are kids to be thinking of first...

    if adults would just slow down and think of what is best/safest for their children rather than their own personal love lives maybe we might save a few of these kids from physical and sexual abuse!!!

    ie get to know the person first before you live with them and drag your child into the situation...

    sorry for my rant!
    REVAMPZ

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    I just spoke with a VERY nice lady at the funeral home.

    She said the date they had been told of his death when arrangements were made was Saturday the 8th. However, as she was working to get the obit up and online, she said she thought she'd better confirm that and called the funeral home in Utah that was handling arrangements for his transfer back to Virginia. They told her the temporary death certificate stated he was found (and therefore pronounced) on May 11th. She said that when someone is found, the date they're found and pronounced always is listed on the initial (temporary is what she called it) death certificate until a definitive date is determined, if possible. She thanked me for bringing that to her attention, she'd not been aware and said that the date had been changed to reflect what the temporary certificate stated but they'd not changed the day to Tuesday. She said that she couldn't change that now, but would pass the info on to someone in the morning so they could do so.

    She said Ethan was brought back home today. She said they were at the Knoxville airport at 6 am this morning to pick him up.

    While talking to her, I could tell she was broken up over this, and I heard phones going off in the background. I know from my experience with funeral homes in this area, especially the smaller ones, they don't staff on weekends and nights but rather have someone on call to return calls. My prayers go out to these folks as well.

    Of interest is that they were told Ethan died on Saturday May 8th. I won't state outright why I believe that to be true based upon my conversation with her, but read what I wrote above and draw your own conclusions.


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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Ailina View Post
    (snipped)



    Uhhh...wow. Certainly not flattering information.

    I have to wonder though -- why would a journalist include this information? Is it relevant? I hate to admit that even I'm interested by the detail, but when I step back, does it have any bearing on Ethan's well being? (Not asking these questions rhetorically...I'd like to know anyone else's thoughts on this.)
    I think it was said to cast doubt on Ethan's dad to discount his concerns about Stephanie.
    Ms. Rodriguez was like a second mother to Ethan if she was so bad why did JS let her have contact with Ethan...
    Not saying I agree BUT!....

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    Quote Originally Posted by RLynne View Post
    BBM.

    This strikes me as strange.

    My understanding is that the mediated divorce agreement included a provision that momsters' parents were prohibited from contact with Ethan, and *also* with SS. In my experience--and I'm very familiar with family law in my state, but *not* in Utah (I practiced family law in my state for 6 years, but am not doing so currently)--this is semi-enforceable. There can be a condition of placement that says when a child is with a parent, they will not allow the child to have contact with person X. However, there cannot be a provision that says "Person X will not contact (child, parent, etc.)", *unless* Person X was a party to the action (to give Person X a chance to contest, etc.).

    I've seen some discussion on here wondering about the ban on contact from SS's parents with both SS and Ethan--I've wondered as well. I'm assuming that Ethan's dad gave the info for this obituary. Since the obituary writer includes the information regarding maternal grandparents--I'm guessing (a guess only) that the ban on contact was something SS insisted on.

    I wonder why????
    I brainstormed this very thing before. The conclusion I came to -- based on SS's motivations for initiating a restraining order against Michelle -- was that SS initiated the restraining order against her own parents, too, perhaps as a means to control them, maybe to punish them or create some kind of leverage.

    In this case, I think JS would've gone along and let SS "do her thing," even if he was neutral or indifferent about it, since he may have perceived it to be "her problem."

    Now, after this tragedy, it makes sense SS's parents and JS would reach out to each other. They've all three lost a precious child they all loved. SS is the common denominator who did not suffer a loss (to emphasize "suffer" in SS's context).
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    Regarding Pam Sloop-

    Friendly Reminder:

    LE has not filed charges against Pam Sloop, nor have they confirmed she saw Ethan after he was being abused. Until then any discussion regarding this event needs to be discussed as speculation or theory as opposed to fact.

    I'm asking your discussion on PS remain as speculation or theory until LE confirms this as fact.

    Thank you

    Cubby
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Ailina View Post
    (snipped)



    Uhhh...wow. Certainly not flattering information.

    I have to wonder though -- why would a journalist include this information? Is it relevant? I hate to admit that even I'm interested by the detail, but when I step back, does it have any bearing on Ethan's well being? (Not asking these questions rhetorically...I'd like to know anyone else's thoughts on this.)
    I read that when it came out on Friday. I chose to just pass by it. Partly for the reason you mentioned, it does not have anything to do with Ethan. Then I remembered that she said she took him on trips. So now I am more confused.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RLynne View Post
    BBM.

    This strikes me as strange.

    My understanding is that the mediated divorce agreement included a provision that momsters' parents were prohibited from contact with Ethan, and *also* with SS. In my experience--and I'm very familiar with family law in my state, but *not* in Utah (I practiced family law in my state for 6 years, but am not doing so currently)--this is semi-enforceable. There can be a condition of placement that says when a child is with a parent, they will not allow the child to have contact with person X. However, there cannot be a provision that says "Person X will not contact (child, parent, etc.)", *unless* Person X was a party to the action (to give Person X a chance to contest, etc.).

    I've seen some discussion on here wondering about the ban on contact from SS's parents with both SS and Ethan--I've wondered as well. I'm assuming that Ethan's dad gave the info for this obituary. Since the obituary writer includes the information regarding maternal grandparents--I'm guessing (a guess only) that the ban on contact was something SS insisted on.

    I wonder why????
    Or...

    That only lists one set of maternal grandparents. It could be the other couple who were ordered not to have contact with Ethan.

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    (snipped)

    Quote Originally Posted by Calliope View Post
    I just spoke with a VERY nice lady at the funeral home.
    Really great sleuthing, Calliope. Thanks so much for letting us into the loop on your new info. (thumbs up)
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanE View Post
    It's already been corrected.
    Oh good. While I was talking to the woman at the funeral home, she called over to another person and told them about the date. She said she couldn't fix it but perhaps there was someone else there who could.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    Friendly Reminder:

    LE has not filed charges against Pam Sloop, nor have they confirmed she saw Ethan after he was being abused. Until then any discussion regarding this event needs to be discussed as speculation or theory as opposed to fact.

    I'm asking your discussion on PS remain as speculation or theory until LE confirms this as fact.

    Thank you

    Cubby
    BBM
    Nor do I think they will. I honestly believe that she never saw Ethan and only "said she did and that he was fine" to cover for SS and NS and as far as I know this was said when she was interviewed by a reporter... not LE. If she truly never saw him, then there is no crime correct?

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    BeanE, I just clicked back on the obit. The full obituary still says Saturday, May 11. It's the small notice where you click to see the full obit that says Saturday May 8; it's said that from the start. They still need to make corrections, it appears. She told me they have to state the date on the death certificate, even though final determination is pending and this one is considered temporary.

    Did that make sense?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valleyboy View Post
    Not so sure that Joe and Michelle have such a good relationship if you can believe the last paragraph in the following publication on Friday on the Deseret News

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...cys-death.html

    In other court documents obtained by the Deseret News Thursday, Joe Stacy filed for a protective order in 2007 against another spouse, Michelle Rodriguez, whom he also feared would take his children and flee to London while he was away on military duty.

    Joe Stacy claimed in court documents that Rodriguez pulled a knife on him, slapped their kids, left them alone in a room while she went to a bar and then brought men back to the apartment to have sexual relations while the children were still there.

    Thank you for pointing this out. I don't believe I read all the way through the article as other media had previously printed most of the info within this article. With all due respect, this tells me JG was no stranger to family court and should have known better - at least where it pertains to the agreements he conceded to during mediation. I'm not blaming him, however I find it odd - that both he and SS 7 months out of their marriage are either engaged to or married to other persons. I'll refrain from saying more.

    JMO
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    I really hope the police looked into the texts that Carla said Stephanie sent her...

    This piece of information really had me rethinking a few things.........

    She said she never acted on them because she was sick of the drama....

    I can imagine Stephanies life was always full of drama and she seemed to be always fighting with someone, her own parents, Joes ex, Joe......but I would like to know a bit more info on what exactly these texts said and I think they would be important to the police....

    was she saying things like Nathan was being a a..hole and going off his head and she was scared etc etc ..........

    carla mentioned something about her being hysterical !!! maybe she did try to reach out to this girl....
    REVAMPZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calliope View Post
    Oh... I didn't notice the date, just the day Saturday. I'm going to contact the funeral home to see if they can clarify and edit that if necessary.

    Either that means they know he died on Saturday, or they're going by when his body was found.

    Hmmm.

    I'm going to guess they meant to go by when is body was found.

    jmo
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    Quote Originally Posted by gngr~snap View Post
    BBM
    Nor do I think they will. I honestly believe that she never saw Ethan and only "said she did and that he was fine" to cover for SS and NS and as far as I know this was said when she was interviewed by a reporter... not LE. If she truly never saw him, then there is no crime correct?
    True. I am beginning to think that's what she did... got carried away defending SS and NS. But again, if she did see him that day...

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    I just reread that article and Carla said that Stephanie had CALLED her hysterical but that she hadnt called her back as she had cried wolf before.!!

    wow......I think this is important......especially to stephanie's defence team.....
    REVAMPZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanE View Post
    It's already been corrected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calliope View Post
    Oh good. While I was talking to the woman at the funeral home, she called over to another person and told them about the date. She said she couldn't fix it but perhaps there was someone else there who could.
    The small obit says Saturday, May 8, 2010, The full obit says Saturday, May 11, 2010.

    They have not been corrected, yet.


    http://www.grundyfuneralhome.com/Obi...avid_stacy.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by gngr~snap View Post
    BBM
    Nor do I think they will. I honestly believe that she never saw Ethan and only "said she did and that he was fine" to cover for SS and NS and as far as I know this was said when she was interviewed by a reporter... not LE. If she truly never saw him, then there is no crime correct?
    True- at least my understanding. There would only be a crime if she saw Ethan after he had been abused and failed to report the abuse according to a link Laytonian provided earlier that it is a crime to not report child abuse in Utah.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valleyboy View Post
    Not so sure that Joe and Michelle have such a good relationship if you can believe the last paragraph in the following publication on Friday on the Deseret News

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...cys-death.html

    In other court documents obtained by the Deseret News Thursday, Joe Stacy filed for a protective order in 2007 against another spouse, Michelle Rodriguez, whom he also feared would take his children and flee to London while he was away on military duty.

    Joe Stacy claimed in court documents that Rodriguez pulled a knife on him, slapped their kids, left them alone in a room while she went to a bar and then brought men back to the apartment to have sexual relations while the children were still there.
    There was a clarification printed somewhere that Stephanie filled out the PO application and Joe later admited in court that none of that was true.

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    The link below is to a Deseret News article on Michelle Rodriguez's relationship with Joe and Ethan Stacey. Joe obviously came around to trusting her; she talks of trips she took with her two kids and Ethan. She also has an interesting take on SS. Worth a read.

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...-be-loved.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by revampz View Post
    I just reread that article and Carla said that Stephanie had CALLED her hysterical but that she hadnt called her back as she had cried wolf before.!!

    wow......I think this is important......especially to stephanie's defence team.....
    But Carla was In Fla? I don't get it...why reach out to someone so far away? maybe she wanted Carla to call 911 for her? So NS wouldn't find it on her cell?
    She was able to leave on the 7th and the 9th why not call then? Maybe Ethan was already deceased by then and it was too late?
    Poor Carla ~ is gonna blame herself for something that SS should have done for her child.

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    Quote Originally Posted by revampz View Post
    I really hope the police looked into the texts that Carla said Stephanie sent her...

    This piece of information really had me rethinking a few things.........

    She said she never acted on them because she was sick of the drama....

    I can imagine Stephanies life was always full of drama and she seemed to be always fighting with someone, her own parents, Joes ex, Joe......but I would like to know a bit more info on what exactly these texts said and I think they would be important to the police....

    was she saying things like Nathan was being a a..hole and going off his head and she was scared etc etc ..........

    carla mentioned something about her being hysterical !!! maybe she did try to reach out to this girl....
    bbm


    "You carry a lot of guilt around when someone calls you hysterical and you don't call them back
    http://www.sltrib.com/D=g/ci_15083168


    I get the impression they are calls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by revampz View Post
    I really hope the police looked into the texts that Carla said Stephanie sent her...

    This piece of information really had me rethinking a few things.........

    She said she never acted on them because she was sick of the drama....

    I can imagine Stephanies life was always full of drama and she seemed to be always fighting with someone, her own parents, Joes ex, Joe......but I would like to know a bit more info on what exactly these texts said and I think they would be important to the police....

    was she saying things like Nathan was being a a..hole and going off his head and she was scared etc etc ..........

    carla mentioned something about her being hysterical !!! maybe she did try to reach out to this girl....

    I agree. Technically though what was Carla going to do being on the other side of the country? What could she have done that SS couldn't have done herself? Call 911 for SS? No, because SS had plenty of time to call herself when she was out and about. Even if she feared NS would go through her outgoing calls, she could have stopped and asked ANYONE to contact 911 for her.

    I've had friends like that too... who eventually are so draining going on and on and on about their life problems yet never do a thing about them other than to spend hours and hours complaining and going over every little detail speculating what this or that could have meant.... Friends like that become paralyzing when they are unwilling to do anything for themself so it is best to just let them go. There is no way Carla could have forseen what was going on....

    JMO
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