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Thread: UT - Ethan Stacy, 4, Layton, 10 May 2010 - #5

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    True- at least my understanding. There would only be a crime if she saw Ethan after he had been abused and failed to report the abuse according to a link Laytonian provided earlier that it is a crime to not report child abuse in Utah.
    I don't think the woman KNEW she was being decietful (not in an evil way)... she would not have known about the pics LE had of Ethan...

    wonder why she left town on the 5th? maybe for Mother's Day weekend?
    and why NS and SS decided to marry on the 6th.

    MOO he knew the jig was up and wanted to win his prize brfore he got caught
    All posts are MOO

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  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by revampz View Post
    I just reread that article and Carla said that Stephanie had CALLED her hysterical but that she hadnt called her back as she had cried wolf before.!!

    wow......I think this is important......especially to stephanie's defence team.....
    She said "last week"... was that possibly when she'd reported him "missing"? IMO, this was part of the coverup and CYA on her part, just like NS's frantic call to Joe.

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  5. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by gngr~snap View Post
    I don't think the woman KNEW she was being decietful (not in an evil way)... she would not have known about the pics LE had of Ethan...

    wonder why she left town on the 5th? maybe for Mother's Day weekend?
    and why NS and SS decided to marry on the 6th.

    MOO he knew the jig was up and wanted to win his prize brfore he got caught

    BBM. Who knows.... her children are adults, she is free to go where ever she wishes and travel wherever she wishes. For all we know, her children are in various parts of the country so it is possible she travels frequently visiting them..........

    Honestly, I think whatever she spoke was under duress. For all we know it could have been a quick visit of only a few minutes and other details regarding the visit caused her to not really be aware of Ethan. I mean, technically everyone believed Ethan would be with NS and SS for the duration of the summer so there really wasn't any need to hurry and have huge plans or visits the first few days he was in town.

    Of course non of the above would be out of the ordinary......

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  7. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubby View Post
    True- at least my understanding. There would only be a crime if she saw Ethan after he had been abused and failed to report the abuse according to a link Laytonian provided earlier that it is a crime to not report child abuse in Utah.
    Maybe PS is just mistaken about the date she saw Ethan? Considering her grief that she seems to be experiencing over her son being accused of this act, it seems reasonable that she could be confused at which day she actually saw the family. Just a thought. She seemed genuine and emotional in her interview in my opinion. She was willing to at least consider that her son did this (which is also a bit telling), which is more than we see from other parents of accused or convicted killers. But, she does seem conflicted by this thought....which I thought was reasonable. Who wants to believe that their child could kill a little innocent child? She also clearly feels some guilt for not being able to be there, help or prevent it, as shown by her "where did we fail them" statement. I don't know....seems genuine (imo). The thought that she could so easily conceive that he had done this without all the denial we see from some parents....makes ya wonder what she does know or has seen from his personality in the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calliope View Post
    I just spoke with a VERY nice lady at the funeral home.

    She said the date they had been told of his death when arrangements were made was Saturday the 8th. However, as she was working to get the obit up and online, she said she thought she'd better confirm that and called the funeral home in Utah that was handling arrangements for his transfer back to Virginia. They told her the temporary death certificate stated he was found (and therefore pronounced) on May 11th. She said that when someone is found, the date they're found and pronounced always is listed on the initial (temporary is what she called it) death certificate until a definitive date is determined, if possible. She thanked me for bringing that to her attention, she'd not been aware and said that the date had been changed to reflect what the temporary certificate stated but they'd not changed the day to Tuesday. She said that she couldn't change that now, but would pass the info on to someone in the morning so they could do so.

    She said Ethan was brought back home today. She said they were at the Knoxville airport at 6 am this morning to pick him up.

    While talking to her, I could tell she was broken up over this, and I heard phones going off in the background. I know from my experience with funeral homes in this area, especially the smaller ones, they don't staff on weekends and nights but rather have someone on call to return calls. My prayers go out to these folks as well.

    Of interest is that they were told Ethan died on Saturday May 8th. I won't state outright why I believe that to be true based upon my conversation with her, but read what I wrote above and draw your own conclusions.
    from the bottom of my heart thank you for going the extra mile. I kinda figured that they were just using the date from when his body was found...but all states are different. His little baby body was back close to his daddy...I know that is some extremely small comfort for his daddy...I hope everyone knows what I mean by that. Just tears....just tears for this precious child...
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    Quote Originally Posted by harleysnana View Post
    I"m not really sure about that...
    In Utah you have to be found competent to stand trial.

    You can read more about Brian David Mitchell and Wanda Barzee
    Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart_kidnapping


    Brian David Mitchell (born October 18, 1953) and his wife Wanda Ileen Barzee
    were indicted by a Utah grand jury. Mitchell's trial on these charges was
    initially postponed following a court ruling that he was not mentally
    competent to stand trial. U.S. District Court Judge Dale Kimball later
    overturned this ruling; a trial date is pending.[28]

    For several months, Mitchell and Barzee were held on US$10 million bond
    awaiting the outcome of mental competency tests. Prosecutors said that
    Mitchell and Barzee kidnapped Elizabeth to be Mitchell's "second wife",
    [citation needed] held her against her will in the foothills near Arlington Hills
    until October 8,[citation needed] and then took her to California, where they
    stayed until March 5.[citation needed]


    In January 2004, Barzee was found incompetent to stand trial on charges
    including kidnapping, sexual assault, and burglary. On July 26, 2005, Mitchell
    was also found incompetent to stand trial, facing the same charges. A
    district judge has ordered him held until he is deemed fit for trial.[29][30]
    Barzee's condition has not improved since she was found incompetent to
    stand trial. Barzee has also refused to take medication "that might restore
    her mental competence."[31]


    Also see:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competence_(law)

    I believe now that Mitchell and Barzee have been found competent to stand
    trial now... but I think that if they had not been found competent they
    would have been able to use it as their defense.
    Just a short clarification regarding insanity defense and competency to stand trial - at one time I worked as a pharmacist in a forensic mental health facility, that's where I'm coming from:

    ALL states require that a person be competent to stand trial I believe it's a Federal law also.

    Competency is the ability for a defendant to help in his/her own defense. Ex. know the difference between the judge and his mother; help his defense attorneys with the defense strategy; knowing the basic proceedings of a court trial.

    Insanity - is the defendant, at the time of committing the crime, not knowing right from wrong or unable to control out of control behavior.

    Forensic mental health facilities have units for those who have been deemed as incompetent and will restore that person to competency in order to stand trial. Staff look out for malingering which is a purposeful way of acting to avoid competency. Many fake incompetency. Medications are given to restore clear thinking, if needed. Teaching the court process occurs.

    Utah has no insanity defense but like all states, demand the person know the basic court proceedings. Sorry this is so long but it is important to know the difference. The case you site with Smart, the persons had to be restored to competency in order to stand trial. moo
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    Quote Originally Posted by gngr~snap View Post
    NS obviously prefers beating up women and small children... When he has to fight a REAL man he doesn't like it so much.... probably because he gets physical injuries...

    So I guess SS was giving him a break so to speak by not forcing him to fight for her? MOO
    BBM

    That is exactly what I was thinking when viewing the photo of him crying in court on Friday.....not such a big, tough man now.....but Mama can't help him this time....

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuziQ View Post
    There was a clarification printed somewhere that Stephanie filled out the PO application and Joe later admited in court that none of that was true.
    Thank you. It's clear that Michelle and Joe are still close and she's a major support for him. It's clear that Michelle adored Ethan. It's also clear that SS is a manipulative sociopathic liar.

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    http://www.sltrib.com/D=g/ci_15099438



    So she was a good mum beforehand....

    BUT.....she changed her status to married on facebook, while her bub was lying dying in a locked room!!!!!!

    This was one of those romances.........sid and nancy, the couple from the darklands (think this is the title), Micheal and Paula (Hutchence & Yates) , True Romance.......bad influences on each other!!!
    Last edited by revampz; 05-16-2010 at 10:31 PM. Reason: added more info
    REVAMPZ

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    Quote Originally Posted by easttexas View Post
    from the bottom of my heart thank you for going the extra mile. I kinda figured that they were just using the date from when his body was found...but all states are different. His little baby body was back close to his daddy...I know that is some extremely small comfort for his daddy...I hope everyone knows what I mean by that. Just tears....just tears for this precious child...
    I almost lost it when she told me about traveling early this morning to pick him up. I could hear the strain in her voice too. Keep in mind that, along with those police officers who found him and the ME staff who examined him, these people are seeing first hand the brutality little Ethan endured both before and after death. How horrifying that must be; again my prayers go out for God to comfort them as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by revampz View Post
    http://www.sltrib.com/D=g/ci_15099438



    So she was a good mum beforehand....

    BUT.....she changed her status to married on facebook, while her bub was lying dying in a locked room!!!!!!

    This was one of those romances.........sid and nancy, the couple from the darklands (think this is the title), Micheal and Paula (Hutchence & Yates) , True Romance.......bad influences on each other!!!
    The noose draws tighter.

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  23. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Calliope View Post
    BeanE, I just clicked back on the obit. The full obituary still says Saturday, May 11. It's the small notice where you click to see the full obit that says Saturday May 8; it's said that from the start. They still need to make corrections, it appears. She told me they have to state the date on the death certificate, even though final determination is pending and this one is considered temporary.

    Did that make sense?
    Ah okay thanks, Calliope. I clicked the second link and saw May 8. I didn't realize there were 2 different places with the date.

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  25. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by harleysnana View Post
    I"m not really sure about that...
    In Utah you have to be found competent to stand trial.

    You can read more about Brian David Mitchell and Wanda Barzee
    Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart_kidnapping


    Brian David Mitchell (born October 18, 1953) and his wife Wanda Ileen Barzee
    were indicted by a Utah grand jury. Mitchell's trial on these charges was
    initially postponed following a court ruling that he was not mentally
    competent to stand trial. U.S. District Court Judge Dale Kimball later
    overturned this ruling; a trial date is pending.[28]



    For several months, Mitchell and Barzee were held on US$10 million bond
    awaiting the outcome of mental competency tests. Prosecutors said that
    Mitchell and Barzee kidnapped Elizabeth to be Mitchell's "second wife",
    [citation needed] held her against her will in the foothills near Arlington Hills
    until October 8,[citation needed] and then took her to California, where they
    stayed until March 5.[citation needed]


    In January 2004, Barzee was found incompetent to stand trial on charges
    including kidnapping, sexual assault, and burglary. On July 26, 2005, Mitchell
    was also found incompetent to stand trial, facing the same charges. A
    district judge has ordered him held until he is deemed fit for trial.[29][30]
    Barzee's condition has not improved since she was found incompetent to
    stand trial. Barzee has also refused to take medication "that might restore
    her mental competence."[31]


    Also see:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competence_(law)

    I believe now that Mitchell and Barzee have been found competent to stand
    trial now... but I think that if they had not been found competent they
    would have been able to use it as their defense.
    Anyone has to be compentent to stand trial. Utah simply does not allow an insanity defense. Therefore, if they are found competent to stand trial, they COULD NOT say they were insane when they committed the acts and then get away with murder. If they are not competent, they would be held in a mental hospital until competent to stand trial. If they stand trial and are found guilty, but mentally ill, then they would be held in a mental health facility until they were no longer deemed mentally ill at which time they would serve the remainder of their sentence in a jail.

    eta: thanks eyes! I didn't see your post.

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  27. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by revampz View Post
    http://www.sltrib.com/D=g/ci_15099438



    So she was a good mum beforehand....

    BUT.....she changed her status to married on facebook, while her bub was lying dying in a locked room!!!!!!

    This was one of those romances.........sid and nancy, the couple from the darklands (think this is the title), Micheal and Paula (Hutchence & Yates) , True Romance.......bad influences on each other!!!

    My thoughts exactly....how do you have even a moment to worry about your Facebook account when your child is in the other room suffering and as we know now....dying. Wouldn't you be rushing him to the hospital? Calling the police while your out at Wal-mart, since your "new husband" won't let you call from home (or so she alleged). Would a caring mother get married or be excited about their wedding while their child's in this situation or any child for that matter? And she is so happy to be his wife? Isn't that what she posted on Facebook? Happy to be the wife of a man who just caused brain damage to my son? In my personal opinion, I believe the rushed wedding was to prove to him (probably at his request) that she would stand by him, that she still loved him despite what he had done, to prove their love to each other despite the fact that he was beating her child within the first week of meeting him!!! I think she was likely happy to make that commitment to him and prove her "undying" love. Disgusting and Disturbing. I can't even fully comprehend how this mother could stand by and watch this happen. I am happy they are going to pursue murder charges against her too.

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  29. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by revampz View Post
    I had heard about a restraining order......also in another news item I saw Joe was quoted as saying that Stephanie had abandoned Ethan and another 2 children from a previous marriage in October.......made me think that maybe these two children were living with Joe and Stephanie for a while as well.....

    Look if you ask me they were all jumping into and from relationships way too quickly for my liking when kids are involved.........she just ended up with Nathan scum after bearly knowing him and meeting him on the internet and became pregnant within 2 months of being with him, and he has met and become engaged within 8 months of her leaving!

    sorry to be judgemental here but this too me happens way too much and way too quickly when there are kids to be thinking of first...

    if adults would just slow down and think of what is best/safest for their children rather than their own personal love lives maybe we might save a few of these kids from physical and sexual abuse!!!

    ie get to know the person first before you live with them and drag your child into the situation...

    sorry for my rant!
    I am 100% in agreement with you and I'm glad to see other people share my views. I am currently going through custody with my son's father. We were together 5 years, I took care of his daughters and our son for all of those years, he meets some chick in a bar and he's out. He had her move in with him after 3 months of knowing her right after she got her car repoed, and I came upon the knowledge that she has her own child that she does not have custody of due to drugs and her ex had a restraining order filed against her. She has been issued warrant upon warrant for failing to appear to her own child support hearings. I immediatley went down and filed for supervised visits after learning this, court is tomorrow I hope the judge takes all of this into account, because I don't want my child around someone that can't have her own child. I find it very disturbing that his father would even date this kind of girl or have our son around her. Yep she's special, I flat out told her to go take care of her own child and stay the he.. away from mine. There are other issues involved but won't rant about. It is not appropriate for children to see parents going from relationship to relationship IMO. I don't find this as a stable or healthy environment for children to be exposed to, gives them the wrong idea, again this is JMO and the values I have for my son.
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  31. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyes4crime View Post
    Just a short clarification regarding insanity defense and competency to stand trial - at one time I worked as a pharmacist in a forensic mental health facility, that's where I'm coming from:

    ALL states require that a person be competent to stand trial I believe it's a Federal law also.

    Competency is the ability for a defendant to help in his/her own defense. Ex. know the difference between the judge and his mother; help his defense attorneys with the defense strategy; knowing the basic proceedings of a court trial.

    Insanity - is the defendant, at the time of committing the crime, not knowing right from wrong or unable to control out of control behavior.

    Forensic mental health facilities have units for those who have been deemed as incompetent and will restore that person to competency in order to stand trial. Staff look out for malingering which is a purposeful way of acting to avoid competency. Many fake incompetency. Medications are given to restore clear thinking, if needed. Teaching the court process occurs.

    Utah has no insanity defense but like all states, demand the person know the basic court proceedings. Sorry this is so long but it is important to know the difference. The case you site with Smart, the persons had to be restored to competency in order to stand trial. moo
    I did find this....

    "The state has abolished the insanity defense, but guilty but mentally ill verdicts are allowed."

    My guess... both of them will be found guilty but mentally ill...

    edit: Please don't get me wrong... I want them to pay and I don't think they are mentally ill....
    however they have very good defense attorneys and IMO I think they will try as hard as they can
    to show metnal illness.
    Last edited by harleysnana; 05-16-2010 at 11:10 PM.

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  33. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by crimejunkie View Post
    My thoughts exactly....how do you have even a moment to worry about your Facebook account when your child is in the other room suffering and as we know now....dying. Wouldn't you be rushing him to the hospital? Calling the police while your out at Wal-mart, since your "new husband" won't let you call from home (or so she alleged). Would a caring mother get married or be excited about their wedding while their child's in this situation or any child for that matter? And she is so happy to be his wife? Isn't that what she posted on Facebook? Happy to be the wife of a man who just caused brain damage to my son? In my personal opinion, I believe the rushed wedding was to prove to him (probably at his request) that she would stand by him, that she still loved him despite what he had done, to prove their love to each other despite the fact that he was beating her child within the first week of meeting him!!! I think she was likely happy to make that commitment to him and prove her "undying" love. Disgusting and Disturbing. I can't even fully comprehend how this mother could stand by and watch this happen. I am happy they are going to pursue murder charges against her too.
    I agree with most of what you said except that she was proving her love despite what he'd done. Because I think she was a full-on 100% participant in the torture and murder of this precious child.

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    Quote Originally Posted by revampz View Post
    I really hope the police looked into the texts that Carla said Stephanie sent her...

    This piece of information really had me rethinking a few things.........

    She said she never acted on them because she was sick of the drama....

    I can imagine Stephanies life was always full of drama and she seemed to be always fighting with someone, her own parents, Joes ex, Joe......but I would like to know a bit more info on what exactly these texts said and I think they would be important to the police....

    was she saying things like Nathan was being a a..hole and going off his head and she was scared etc etc ..........

    carla mentioned something about her being hysterical !!! maybe she did try to reach out to this girl....
    Definitely. And I don't think we can even begin to speculate about what that voice mail (assuming Carla did not pick up) might have entailed, because SS could be capable of a thousand motivations and/or a thousand pseudo-motivations in the process.

    I just HOPE HOPE HOPE LE has followed up on Carla's statements. I feel this is a key piece of evidence that needs to be included, no matter if it benefits the prosecution or defense. If the call was made between April 28 & May 11, it needs to be investigated.
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    Stephanie reconnected with Llewellyn on Facebook after Nathan and Stephanie got together.
    "I think she completely changed when she got with Nathan," she said. They seemed "obsessed" with each other, she said. Stephanie often wrote online that she had found her soul mate, that her life was complete. They planned their wedding for July 4, and she had an expensive dress from Nathan's mother, Llewellyn said.

    Then, on May 6, her relationship status on Facebook suddenly changed to "married," Llewellyn said.
    According to police, Nathan and Stephanie Sloop went to the old Davis County Memorial Courthouse to wed the day after Nathan dealt Ethan a brutal beating. They locked him in a bedroom, according to arrest documents, so people would not see his injuries.

    "The day she got married to Nathan, she put on her updated status 'married,' and something to the effect of being so happy she was finally Mrs. Nathan Sloop," Llewellyn said. "She seemed excited. In the midst of this, while I was writing 'congratulations,' he was in a bedroom dying. It just makes me sick to my stomach."




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    will we ever know what Ethan did that was so terrible that he had to be disciplined lkie that? What was it....something had to have happened..although I am sure it was nothing that warranted ANY TYPE of discipline. This guy was looking for a reason to beat this child..IMO. So, what did Ethan do? Spill his drink?...not say yes sir yea maam? I want to know...

    The interview that NS mom gave about him taking up for the underdog because he was one makes me ill. This POS is not an underdog. He is a bully and an abuser...it was a matter of time before NS killed someone..MOO
    Justice for Sheila Deviney, Chandra Turner and Tom Horton, the Garvin County 3!!!!

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  41. #121
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    Still, Stephanie Stacy had another side. She could be vindictive when she felt wronged and always want more money, and was a "compulsive liar." Stephanie Sloop told her she planned on keeping Ethan "for good" after taking him back to Utah.

    http://www.sltrib.com/D=g/ci_15099438

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  43. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by harleysnana View Post
    I did find this....

    "The state has abolished the insanity defense, but guilty but mentally ill verdicts are allowed."

    My guess... both of them will be found guilty but mentally ill...
    I disagree. They locked him in a room and left to get married, knowing that if anyone had seen Ethan they'd be arrested for his abuse. They refused to allow his father to talk to him. They took extraordinary steps to hide and mutilate his body so that, if found, he couldn't be identified. They waited nearly two days at least to report him "missing", in a plot they concocted to deceive police. NS called Joe claiming Ethan had wandered off. SS attempted to inject an innocent man into the crime, accusing him of helping bury Ethan. They carried on with their life (updating knot and FB pages, shopping, getting married, visiting with family, fixing the playstation, etc.) during this time.

    IMO, that is more than enough proof they were functioning with full mental capacity, fully cognizant of their actions and the consequences of those actions.
    Last edited by Calliope; 05-16-2010 at 11:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by easttexas View Post
    will we ever know what Ethan did that was so terrible that he had to be disciplined lkie that? What was it....something had to have happened..although I am sure it was nothing that warranted ANY TYPE of discipline. This guy was looking for a reason to beat this child..IMO. So, what did Ethan do? Spill his drink?...not say yes sir yea maam? I want to know...

    The interview that NS mom gave about him taking up for the underdog because he was one makes me ill. This POS is not an underdog. He is a bully and an abuser...it was a matter of time before NS killed someone..MOO
    BBM
    I'm sorry... I don't call that discipline.. I call it abuse!
    IMO discipline is a time out!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calliope View Post
    I agree with most of what you said except that she was proving her love despite what he'd done. Because I think she was a full-on 100% participant in the torture and murder of this precious child.

    ITA Calliope. I really think she may have instigated it.

    I also want to comment on Nathan's phone calls versus his written words. My ex is one of the most intelligent, well read, and articulate people I know when he is not angry. P*ss him off and he sputter's and spits and every other word if the F-word or worse. He has even made up some choice words in a fit of anger. When I read what Nathan wrote and then read the transcriptions of what he said it in his phone calls it fit with everything else we know about him. He is a sociopath.

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  49. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muffet View Post
    kbl, please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the "her" he's referring to is SS. ?
    yes im referring to ss

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