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Thread: 2010.06.01 - Defense Motion for Tips

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    2010.06.01 - Defense Motion for Tips

    Just out of the hearing and I have to say that the motion regarding JB's request for the nearly 5,000 tips was very interesting!

    He claimed that LE was trickling tips to him at KC's expense and selectively giving whatever they felt like.

    He first claimed that LE decided to only give the psychic tips and then others but made him pay 1,000 and then another 600.00 for the other tips.

    SA claimed that they had copied all of them and left them available for the defense to pick up as soon as they paid the costs equalling 1,500.00.

    What is the truth here?

    Do you think the HHBPJ is onto JB. He seemed to say (in my words)...so just go get them...she is indigent now and it is all free! I authorise 2,000 for that expense!

    Would love to hear what you all think of this?
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    The defense is wanting the tips brought to them and paid for by someone else. HHJP told them, NO, go them yourself and pay out of your own pocket to be reimbursed by the state!

    I do NOT understand why the defense can't do simple things like pay for things, and pick up things. What kind of court is Baez used to practicing in? Clown court? Doitallforme court? I can't believe he passed law school, much less the bar!

    It seems like the entire defense just keeps on sinking itself! I mean how are they going to put together a good argument when they can't get off of their lazy butts to get the material they need to do that? It's like they're just going to run around in circles until they get tired and just ask for a plea deal. Sheesh.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedrys View Post
    The defense is wanting the tips brought to them and paid for by someone else. HHJP told them, NO, go them yourself and pay out of your own pocket to be reimbursed by the state!

    I do NOT understand why the defense can't do simple things like pay for things, and pick up things. What kind of court is Baez used to practicing in? Clown court? Doitallforme court? I can't believe he passed law school, much less the bar!

    It seems like the entire defense just keeps on sinking itself! I mean how are they going to put together a good argument when they can't get off of their lazy butts to get the material they need to do that? It's like they're just going to run around in circles until they get tired and just ask for a plea deal. Sheesh.

    Some of us are not rich and can not just drop a thousand bucks just like that. I do not expect defense attorneys to use out of pocket money. She is indigent and the Judge wants them to come to him for money. I do not see the problem here. Moo

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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    Some of us are not rich and can not just drop a thousand bucks just like that. I do not expect defense attorneys to use out of pocket money. She is indigent and the Judge wants them to come to him for money. I do not see the problem here. Moo
    If that's the case. then perhaps he should get financial backing for his law practice? I'm sure there are any number of people willing to glomb onto the action for a fee.

    It's considered the cost of doing business, IMO.

    Interesting to note he had enough to drop on that new IPad he brings to court.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    Some of us are not rich and can not just drop a thousand bucks just like that. I do not expect defense attorneys to use out of pocket money. She is indigent and the Judge wants them to come to him for money. I do not see the problem here. Moo
    The problem with this line of thinking is that these tips were available rather early on in this case. Back before the defense received money from ABC, Todd M., and such I believe. These tips should have been paid for and picked up at that point (when the defense received said money). To my knowledge the money and expenditures still don't add up either.

    The main point being the defense did have the money at one point and did not pay for and pick up these tips. Much of this case should have already been completed back when the defense did have money. That and lets not forget JB was paid 90k for his "work" on this case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marspiter View Post
    The problem with this line of thinking is that these tips were available rather early on in this case. Back before the defense received money from ABC, Todd M., and such I believe. These tips should have been paid for and picked up at that point (when the defense received said money). To my knowledge the money and expenditures still don't add up either.

    The main point being the defense did have the money at one point and did not pay for and pick up these tips. Much of this case should have already been completed back when the defense did have money. That and lets not forget JB was paid 90k for his "work" on this case.
    I see nothing wrong with Jb being paid 90k for his work. I think Todd or any other donor could allocate their donated money to whatever part of the defense they wanted. It sounded to me like these tips were not available and that there is some kind of misunderstanding about putting in motions for certain things. Jb was making it clear that someone at the sherrifs office was only providing phychic tips. Sa went ahead and made all the coppies for them since the Sherrifs office was being difficult IMO. At anyrate there was a mix up and now the Judge has approved the money for the records request. It is my opinion that these records were not always available.

    How can the defense move on and move toward completion when the state is being difficult with discovery? It is my opinion that this trial will not move forward until the state turns over all discovery. The state turns over all discovery first, then the defense knows what they are defending against, in that order. That is my opinion. Yesterday the Judge took control of that situation and approved to pay for the tips. Now we can move on. IMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    I see nothing wrong with Jb being paid 90k for his work. I think Todd or any other donor could allocate their donated money to whatever part of the defense they wanted. It sounded to me like these tips were not available and that there is some kind of misunderstanding about putting in motions for certain things. Jb was making it clear that someone at the sherrifs office was only providing phychic tips. Sa went ahead and made all the coppies for them since the Sherrifs office was being difficult IMO. At anyrate there was a mix up and now the Judge has approved the money for the records request. It is my opinion that these records were not always available.

    How can the defense move on and move toward completion when the state is being difficult with discovery? It is my opinion that this trial will not move forward until the state turns over all discovery. The state turns over all discovery first, then the defense knows what they are defending against, in that order. That is my opinion. Yesterday the Judge took control of that situation and approved to pay for the tips. Now we can move on. IMO
    Oh, Yes it will. The honorable Judge Perry will make sure of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    I see nothing wrong with Jb being paid 90k for his work. I think Todd or any other donor could allocate their donated money to whatever part of the defense they wanted. It sounded to me like these tips were not available and that there is some kind of misunderstanding about putting in motions for certain things. Jb was making it clear that someone at the sherrifs office was only providing phychic tips. Sa went ahead and made all the coppies for them since the Sherrifs office was being difficult IMO. At anyrate there was a mix up and now the Judge has approved the money for the records request. It is my opinion that these records were not always available.

    How can the defense move on and move toward completion when the state is being difficult with discovery? It is my opinion that this trial will not move forward until the state turns over all discovery. The state turns over all discovery first, then the defense knows what they are defending against, in that order. That is my opinion. Yesterday the Judge took control of that situation and approved to pay for the tips. Now we can move on. IMO
    Well it's been 24 hours has the defense picked up these tips yet? The judge gave them the money so whats the hold up now? Personally if it's that important I would have been there that day picking them up or first thing this morning.

    I keep seeing the accusations that the state is purposely trying to with hold information or act in an unprofessional manner. Many times the defense has been told there is a process and that process must be followed. I have seen numerous examples of the defense not following said protocols. Case in point the defense still owed $200 dollars for the tips according to the hearing.

    A representative of the defense had actually stopped by to collect the tips and then left with out obtaining them if I recall from the hearing.

    Also I believe JB wasn't specific when he first asked for "tips". I believe he asked for "tips" that were called into the hotline. He made a broad request and was given 5000 plus tips which he did not want to pay for. To me it's akin to walking into Wendy's and ordering the entire dollar menu and after you get it you refuse to pay because what you really wanted was the meal combo number 1.

    In other wards judging from the hearing I took it as the confusing was created by the defense. The judge ordered JB to get it done. I guess we'll see how long it takes for the defense to comply with the courts order. The SA stated the requested records are ready and available.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    I see nothing wrong with Jb being paid 90k for his work. I think Todd or any other donor could allocate their donated money to whatever part of the defense they wanted. It sounded to me like these tips were not available and that there is some kind of misunderstanding about putting in motions for certain things. Jb was making it clear that someone at the sherrifs office was only providing phychic tips. Sa went ahead and made all the coppies for them since the Sherrifs office was being difficult IMO. At anyrate there was a mix up and now the Judge has approved the money for the records request. It is my opinion that these records were not always available.

    How can the defense move on and move toward completion when the state is being difficult with discovery? It is my opinion that this trial will not move forward until the state turns over all discovery. The state turns over all discovery first, then the defense knows what they are defending against, in that order. That is my opinion. Yesterday the Judge took control of that situation and approved to pay for the tips. Now we can move on. IMO
    The tips have been ready for pick up for over a year. NOT A PROBLEM.

    A little history to remind folks what is being talked about here. Since this started before the remains were found. When tips were being used to locate a MISSING child. For the defense, that means finding the missing child, finding and proving someone else besides the accused took the child, etc.

    JB wanted ALL the tips and didn't want the LE to decide which were good or bad. Him and alot of folks were trying to claim that the tips were not being checked out, blah, blah, blah. The only way to PROVE it, was if the LE released ALL the tips. This was the claims and why JB requested ALL the tips.

    When he found out how many there was, and that the LE was more then willing to hand them over..he changed his mind. He then claimed the LE was playing games with him by including ALL the psyco and nutty tips. And has been claiming that every since.

    Somehow, the LE was suppose to know that when he requested 'ALL', he didn't mean 'ALL'. That they were suppose to remove the psyco and nutty ones, even tho he didnt' request them be removed. And in fact was acting like ALL just had to be had, to prove that ALL tips were being treated seriously.

    Catch 22. If LE didn't release ALL the tips as requested, the claim would have been they where hiding tips that MIGHT prove KC is innocent. Or, at that time, find that baby quickly.

    example, the TES files. JB doesn't want the important, relevant files. He wants ALL the files. With the tips, he wants just the relevant ones, not ALL the tips. ~ snort

    So LE had no choice but give JB exactly as he requested at that time. Which was ALL the tips. He was allowed to have them if requested.

    Can't have it both ways. He requested ALL tips. The clerks office in good faith did the work of copying, etc.. then JB refused to pay the bill.

    Also, JB had over $200,000 to pick up those tips. He could have had those tips over a year ago. Money wasn't an issue in dealing with these tips.
    Just my opinion.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    I see nothing wrong with Jb being paid 90k for his work. I think Todd or any other donor could allocate their donated money to whatever part of the defense they wanted. It sounded to me like these tips were not available and that there is some kind of misunderstanding about putting in motions for certain things. Jb was making it clear that someone at the sherrifs office was only providing phychic tips. Sa went ahead and made all the coppies for them since the Sherrifs office was being difficult IMO. At anyrate there was a mix up and now the Judge has approved the money for the records request. It is my opinion that these records were not always available.

    How can the defense move on and move toward completion when the state is being difficult with discovery? It is my opinion that this trial will not move forward until the state turns over all discovery. The state turns over all discovery first, then the defense knows what they are defending against, in that order. That is my opinion. Yesterday the Judge took control of that situation and approved to pay for the tips. Now we can move on. IMO
    As per LDB these tips have been ready for months. The problem is JB doesn't want to pay for them. BTW JB should stop by Mark Nejames office, and review all the info on the searchers that have been ready for many months. Call a spade a spade JB is lazy, and wants everything handed to him. To me it just shows his lack of experience. JMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    Some of us are not rich and can not just drop a thousand bucks just like that. I do not expect defense attorneys to use out of pocket money. She is indigent and the Judge wants them to come to him for money. I do not see the problem here. Moo
    Baez claims he paid $1000 and received psychic tips, is this not correct? Had Baez, or an employee of his office, gone to OCSO, and gone through the tips, they could have easily weeded out these tips that Baez referred to, IIRC, as 'junk', and saved themselves the $1000. Is this not correct?

    IIRC, Baez stated in court he has received somewhere around $90,000 in payment for his services, though he doesn't seem to have any record of billable hours. Is it really that unreasonable to you for Baez, or an employee of his firm even, to actually go through some paperwork and pick out what they want? It is my understanding there is more to representing a client than filing motions, appearing in court, and giving press releases, but maybe I am mistaken. I'm just going by what my friends and family members who are attorneys and paralegals do in their line of work, maybe things are different in Florida?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanie View Post
    Baez claims he paid $1000 and received psychic tips, is this not correct? Had Baez, or an employee of his office, gone to OCSO, and gone through the tips, they could have easily weeded out these tips that Baez referred to, IIRC, as 'junk', and saved themselves the $1000. Is this not correct?

    IIRC, Baez stated in court he has received somewhere around $90,000 in payment for his services, though he doesn't seem to have any record of billable hours. Is it really that unreasonable to you for Baez, or an employee of his firm even, to actually go through some paperwork and pick out what they want? It is my understanding there is more to representing a client than filing motions, appearing in court, and giving press releases, but maybe I am mistaken. I'm just going by what my friends and family members who are attorneys and paralegals do in their line of work, maybe things are different in Florida?
    I personally love how HHJP keeps mentioning that dreaded chore "depo" over and over again.....depo = work! go figure!!! They have wasted so much time chasing after reasonable doubt....its truly a shame!!! I think they are running scared now because now they do have some deadlines and I think HHJP will make them keep them! As he mentioned 98% of this should be done...my guess is that the defense is still working on the 3% ---- Interesting that everytime this comes up jb does that sad little whine...didn't go over the first time why try it again....I hope soon he will take his comedy act off and play lawyer...none of his little "jokes" go over...(i.e., yesterday implying that HHJP could meet in his neck of the woods on that June hearing date)
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    Quote Originally Posted by notthatsmart View Post
    Some of us are not rich and can not just drop a thousand bucks just like that. I do not expect defense attorneys to use out of pocket money. She is indigent and the Judge wants them to come to him for money. I do not see the problem here. Moo
    Some of us? Us meaning lawyers who can't afford to drop 1000 bucks on 'work product' but can afford to spend that on a flashy suit with no question?

    The problem here is the Baez law firm is a private company. He isn't a public defender so he gets to put out money in his clients best interests and invioce the state for reimbursment later. Simple really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedrys View Post
    The defense is wanting the tips brought to them and paid for by someone else. HHJP told them, NO, go them yourself and pay out of your own pocket to be reimbursed by the state!

    I do NOT understand why the defense can't do simple things like pay for things, and pick up things. What kind of court is Baez used to practicing in? Clown court? Doitallforme court? I can't believe he passed law school, much less the bar!
    It seems like the entire defense just keeps on sinking itself! I mean how are they going to put together a good argument when they can't get off of their lazy butts to get the material they need to do that? It's like they're just going to run around in circles until they get tired and just ask for a plea deal. Sheesh.
    RBBM

    I agree that Baez is WAAAAAY out of his league with this case and seems extremely inexperienced with a capital case or lazy or some combination thereof. I do not know much about his firm, their finiancial situation, etc. But I will say that many small law firms are simply unable to tackle a large, high profile case such as this because contrary to popular belief, all lawyers are not rich and all law firms do not have endless cash reserves to work with.

    Perhaps Mr. Baez is in such poor financial shape that he quite literally cannot afford to continue to outlay funds for filing fees, copy fees, etc. and wait for reimbursement later. If that is the case - He may want to reconsider filing all the frivilous, baseless motions. Maybe save a few pennies. KWIM? lol
    A MOO MOO here, a MOO MOO there, here a MOO, there a MOO, everywhere a MOO MOO

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    It is the norm for the party requesting documents such as these to pay for the copying costs. This is true for almost all civil & criminal trials that I have worked on. Even when we need something from the court's file, its costs $$ to copy them, and more $ to certify them. If you want a transcript of the court hearing, you have to pay the court steno separately. If we want copies of medical records for example, that opposing has obtained....we pay for the copying costs. And its customary and very normal practice to go and review docs, flag the ones you want...and pay for the copying costs!

    Bottom line here is that if defense wanted ALL the tips, and SA or LE went through the effort of gathering and copying all, damn straight its expected the defense is to pay for them. JB waited, purposely IMO, to get these records until after ICA was declared indigent...he's just playing stupid at this game. He knows damn well he would get these for free after that. And from being on both sides of the aisle in cases....no one is going to do your job for you, nor serve it to you on a silver platter. You want something, you do the work...that's the way it is in the legal world.


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    Quote Originally Posted by cmsg2002 View Post
    It is the norm for the party requesting documents such as these to pay for the copying costs. This is true for almost all civil & criminal trials that I have worked on. Even when we need something from the court's file, its costs $$ to copy them, and more $ to certify them. If you want a transcript of the court hearing, you have to pay the court steno separately. If we want copies of medical records for example, that opposing has obtained....we pay for the copying costs. And its customary and very normal practice to go and review docs, flag the ones you want...and pay for the copying costs!

    Bottom line here is that if defense wanted ALL the tips, and SA or LE went through the effort of gathering and copying all, damn straight its expected the defense is to pay for them. JB waited, purposely IMO, to get these records until after ICA was declared indigent...he's just playing stupid at this game. He knows damn well he would get these for free after that. And from being on both sides of the aisle in cases....no one is going to do your job for you, nor serve it to you on a silver platter. You want something, you do the work...that's the way it is in the legal world.
    I completely agree with this. That's also why JB is putting up such a fuss over the TES records. JB has shown us a track record for doing little to no work on this case as well as not spending money wisely. These tips he is requesting should not even be an issue at this point. The defense should have gone, paid for, and collected these things a long time ago. They dragged their feet plain and simple in an effort to get the Florida tax payers to pay for it.

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    Aedrys,

    You asked what kind of court JB is used to filing in and it was rather funny that when defense was arguing the Oakridge Lab issue. HHBPJ mentioned that he was concerned that this was the type of motion usually seen in a civil court...Maybe Baez has the wrong Courtroom for Idiots book...He should have bought the criminal one instead of the civil one

    Of course that one cost more than

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    The state did bring up at one point that JB staff did go in to try and go through the tips to see what they wanted one time but never returned (implied it was so they didn't have to pay for everything). If I recall correctly then JB corrected her and said they went back to look again... once .. but never got anything

    As everything is prepared and ready to go, I tend to believe the state on this issue.

    As far as emails go.... I think JB knows darn good and well he should be asking for those in a seperate request (which he did and that is how he got them IMO). To bring them up in this context just gave the impression (once again) he was trying to slip some digs in re: the state he shouldn't have been.

    MOO

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    Why would anyone want a copy of all the tips? Is he checking to see if LE checked out the tips or just focused on Casey from the start? How will they know what tips were followed up on and what ones weren't? It seems to me that getting the tips is a waste of money.

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    IMO, it's just a great big fishing expedition. They're looking for someone (anyone) else to pin the blame on. They got nothin'.

    I honestly don't know where they get this idea that everything needs to be spoon fed to them. Boggles my mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobbisangel View Post
    Why would anyone want a copy of all the tips? Is he checking to see if LE checked out the tips or just focused on Casey from the start? How will they know what tips were followed up on and what ones weren't? It seems to me that getting the tips is a waste of money.
    ...and the thing is...IIRC...the As had gotten a lot of the same tips. I've seen countless pages of tips (poor Officer White) that were odd...how does one differentiate when 99.9% of all the tips led nowhere? I wish more weight had been given to RK's tips (hindsight and all that), but the truth is the majority of tips were hooey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RR0004 View Post
    ...and the thing is...IIRC...the As had gotten a lot of the same tips. I've seen countless pages of tips (poor Officer White) that were odd...how does one differentiate when 99.9% of all the tips led nowhere? I wish more weight had been given to RK's tips (hindsight and all that), but the truth is the majority of tips were hooey.
    BBM-Dominic Casey said the same thing.

    Didn't the state hand over the FBI's follow-ups as far as tips? What exactly are they looking for now? Tip Line only? Calls directly to the PD? Someone at the store tapping Yuri on the shoulder with info.? How about tips called in directly to the Anthony's that CA passed along?
    I am not sure what exactly they are referring to, anyone help me with this?

    My favorite tip is the voicemail left for YMelich by 'anonymous.' Anonymous sure sounds like Cindy, and anonymous says KC could not have acted alone.

    http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar...forcement.html

    (See YMelich voicemail from anonymous in the audio listing...LA's VM is very interesting, too)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jayla View Post
    BBM-Dominic Casey said the same thing.

    Didn't the state hand over the FBI's follow-ups as far as tips? What exactly are they looking for now? Tip Line only? Calls directly to the PD? Someone at the store tapping Yuri on the shoulder with info.? How about tips called in directly to the Anthony's that CA passed along?
    I am not sure what exactly they are referring to, anyone help me with this?

    My favorite tip is the voicemail left for YMelich by 'anonymous.' Anonymous sure sounds like Cindy, and anonymous says KC could not have acted alone.

    http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar...forcement.html

    (See YMelich voicemail from anonymous in the audio listing...LA's VM is very interesting, too)
    My favorite...the Golden Retriever...or was it a German Shepherd?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jayla View Post
    BBM-Dominic Casey said the same thing.

    Didn't the state hand over the FBI's follow-ups as far as tips? What exactly are they looking for now? Tip Line only? Calls directly to the PD? Someone at the store tapping Yuri on the shoulder with info.? How about tips called in directly to the Anthony's that CA passed along?
    I am not sure what exactly they are referring to, anyone help me with this?

    My favorite tip is the voicemail left for YMelich by 'anonymous.' Anonymous sure sounds like Cindy, and anonymous says KC could not have acted alone.

    http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar...forcement.html

    (See YMelich voicemail from anonymous in the audio listing...LA's VM is very interesting, too)
    Notice how she says they were in the home with the grandmother from 7 - 9pm .. not for the night, not from 7pm...and yes its def Cindy. So the deception with LE started within the first week. Ridiculous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jayla View Post
    BBM-Dominic Casey said the same thing.

    Didn't the state hand over the FBI's follow-ups as far as tips? What exactly are they looking for now? Tip Line only? Calls directly to the PD? Someone at the store tapping Yuri on the shoulder with info.? How about tips called in directly to the Anthony's that CA passed along?
    I am not sure what exactly they are referring to, anyone help me with this?

    My favorite tip is the voicemail left for YMelich by 'anonymous.' Anonymous sure sounds like Cindy, and anonymous says KC could not have acted alone.

    http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar...forcement.html

    (See YMelich voicemail from anonymous in the audio listing...LA's VM is very interesting, too)
    Wow, I had never heard those voicemails! That "anonymous" one is totally CA!!! Longwinded, using extra words to convey one idea, the inflection and pronunciation of words. Duh!! Who did she think she was fooling? Oh wait, the A's are all much smarter than the rest of us, especially LE.

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