1476 users online (290 members and 1186 guests)  


Websleuths News


Page 5 of 40 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 15 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 588
  1. #61
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by MindonMom View Post
    K.S.A. 21-3302(a) provides that "[a] conspiracy is an agreement with another person to commit a crime or to assist in committing a crime." Furthermore, K.S.A. 21-3302(a) proclaims that "[n]o person may be convicted of a conspiracy unless an overt act in furtherance of such conspiracy is alleged and proved to have been committed by such person or by a co-conspirator."

    BBM ^

    I found the above after a few minutes searching. The way it reads to me, only one party has to commit the overt act for all parties to be guilty of conspiracy. Anyone else have an opinion on how it reads to them?

    that makes much more sense. otherwise you could talk to people about killing someone all day long and if someone acted on it, you'd get off scott free.

    thanks for clarifying
    Last edited by beerslinger; 06-08-2010 at 01:14 AM. Reason: spelling

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    98
    I'm just curious, but as far as I read the document RoHo is being charged with just one thing; contractual murder. Is that normal? Why wouldn't he be charged with a normal count of murder as well, and/or the kidnapping and so forth? If they cannot prove the contract does it all fall apart?

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by beerslinger View Post
    that makes much more sense. otherwise you could talk to people about killing someone all day long and if someone acted on it, you'd get off scott free.

    thanks for clarifying
    For good or for bad, the appellate court interpreted the statute referenced by MindonMom in such a way that someone can talk about killing someone. I agree with MindonMom's (and probably everyone else here's) assessment of the statute but it appears that the courts had a different opinion. The case I reference is this:

    In State v. Hobson, 234 Kan. 133, 134-35, 671 P.2d 1365 (1983), Sueanne Hobson appealed her convictions of first-degree murder of her stepson and conspiracy to commit murder. The evidence suggested that Hobson asked her son to help her "get rid of" her stepson. 234 Kan. at 135. Hobson promised her son she would buy him a car if he would kill Hobson's stepson. The court, in evaluating the jury instructions given at trial, stated: "The facts tending to establish the appellant hired or procured others to kill [her stepson] would not, standing alone, have established the additional element of an overt act required to support the charge of conspiracy." 234 Kan. at 140.

    Hobson, in the above case, is certainly not innocent. Unfortunately, she was not guilty of a crime.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    46
    and one wonders why lawyers make the big bucks. it's clear as mud now. I was reading the wiki on conspiracy, it's pretty interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_(crime)

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    46
    This is from the wiki. hope this isn't the case.

    "It is also an option for prosecutors, when bringing conspiracy charges, to decline to indict all members of the conspiracy (though their existence may be mentioned in an indictment). Such unindicted co-conspirators are commonly found when the identities or whereabouts of members of a conspiracy are unknown; or when the prosecution is only concerned with a particular individual among the conspirators. "

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    46
    The Attorney General's Office said in a news released that the complaint alleges that on November 7th, 2009 in Atchison County, Hollister "intentionally and with premeditation killed Patricia Kimmi pursuant to a contract or agreement or was a party to a contract or agreement to have Kimmi killed."

    from the topeka news article.

    I guess all this "conspiracy" talk is a moot point because they have only charged him with capital murder. but they indicate that he was party to a contract agreement. Isn't that conspiracy? if they have evidence that it was a contract, shouldn't they have evidence with whom the contract was made? it makes no sense that there are no other charges!!!!

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    44

    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by beerslinger View Post
    what would count as an overt action? Paying RoHo? Talking about money with RoHo after the fact? Helping him get rid of the truck? (all hypotheticals here, just wondering out loud) Is knowing it was going to happen and not reporting it "overt" enough?
    I picked up bits and pieces while reading some case law. To me, it appears that these would qualify:
    • Making a payment
    • Helping hide evidence such as the truck
    • Providing information such as Pat's routine schedule
    • Checking on progress of the plan


    I don't know what the court would say about "knowing it was going to happen". I'd be confident that a jury would say that it meets the criteria. I'm sure any competent criminal attorney would appeal if it came down to it and it would be up to an appellate court to decide.

    On another note, both conspiracy and spousal privilege (as well as most of our legal system) are deeply rooted in English common law. This gives judges the latitude to take case law as well as the literal statute in to account when making decisions. As such, reading the statute alone does not sufficiently provide the full picture of options available to the prosecution. As an example, the so-called Miranda warnings are not generally codified in to statutes anywhere but they carry the force of law based entirely on a Supreme Court decision.

    If you're interested in learning more about this, you can research "English common law" and compare it to "Napoleonic code".

    I have a feeling we'll all be expert in this stuff as the trial proceeds. What a horrific reason to learn about it.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by beerslinger View Post
    I guess all this "conspiracy" talk is a moot point because they have only charged him with capital murder. but they indicate that he was party to a contract agreement. Isn't that conspiracy? if they have evidence that it was a contract, shouldn't they have evidence with whom the contract was made? it makes no sense that there are no other charges!!!!
    In testimony given at the attempted murder hearing, a statement indicated that RoHo "wore a wire" presumably in an effort to obtain evidence incriminating a co-conspirator and possibly be rewarded with a lesser charge. It appears he was unsuccessful and as a result the prosecution has no proof of a contract other than RoHo admitting to being hired. This established RoHo's motive for the prosecution but the burden of proof was then on RoHo to prove that a conspiracy was in place. The word of a suspected killer looking to avoid the death penalty is poor evidence at trial. As a result, it appears that the prosecution can use this admitted motive against RoHo but they so far lack any additional evidence against co-conspirators.

    We'll see how this unfolds at trial, but it looks like law enforcement provided RoHo with enough rope to hang several people but he ended up only hanging himself.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    44
    Quote Originally Posted by beerslinger View Post
    and one wonders why lawyers make the big bucks. it's clear as mud now. I was reading the wiki on conspiracy, it's pretty interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_(crime)
    The link you provided was missing the last ")". Here it is corrected:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_(crime)

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Denton
    Posts
    106
    Just want to say thanks to beerslinger and son-of-bowmancabin for the info. I know I appreciate it because I don't understand it, and don't have the time or patience to look it up. You make it easy to keep up with the charges and soon to be trial.
    "One word frees us of all the weight and pain of life; that word is love". Sophocles


  11. #71
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    9,231
    ~bump to the top~

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    199
    With so much information recently, my head is spinning!

    My main concern is for Pat's family, each and every one. May the Lord continue to bless them and keep them strong. The video of them in the courtroom was so impressive. I could never keep myself in control like they have.

  13. #73
    Another bump up.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    9,772
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiskey Horse View Post
    Sounds as if you know him well, Fairy1. I am so glad that Rita has him to lean on and you can tell from the way he has acted that he loved his MIL.
    Only from what we've learned here and from the news! Seems he's always front and center and very involved. Seems to me he loved Pat and loves Rita very much.

    Hoping for more news soon....

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    choctaw beach,florida
    Posts
    3,254
    Back to the top..

Page 5 of 40 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 7 15 ... LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. KS - Patricia Kimmi, 58, Horton, 6 Nov 2009 - #5
    By Salem in forum Patricia Kimmi
    Replies: 527
    Last Post: 06-03-2010, 12:53 AM
  2. KS - Patricia Kimmi, 58, Horton, 6 Nov 2009 - #4
    By Salem in forum Patricia Kimmi
    Replies: 724
    Last Post: 04-19-2010, 01:21 AM
  3. KS - Patricia Kimmi, 58, Horton, 6 Nov 2009 - #3
    By Texas Mist in forum Patricia Kimmi
    Replies: 986
    Last Post: 03-16-2010, 12:33 AM
  4. KS - Patricia Kimmi, 58, Horton, 6 Nov 2009 - #2
    By Texas Mist in forum Patricia Kimmi
    Replies: 769
    Last Post: 01-29-2010, 10:29 AM
  5. KS - Patricia Kimmi, 58, Horton, 6 Nov 2009 - #1
    By Texas Mist in forum Patricia Kimmi
    Replies: 530
    Last Post: 12-04-2009, 02:42 PM

Tags for this Thread