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View Poll Results: Would you tighten a noose around the neck of your child

Voters
149. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, but only to stay out of jail

    3 2.01%
  • Yes.

    0 0%
  • Yes, only if I knew she was already dead.

    4 2.68%
  • Are you out of your mind? No way.

    142 95.30%

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  1. #1
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    Would you pull a cord

    "Would you pull a cord deeply into your daughter's neck, believing she might dead, to cover-up evidence you just killed your her, accidentally?"

  2. #2
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    No.

    This is semi off-topic... and everyone can take this for what it's worth... which given my post count and history here is perhaps nothing... but I live in Colorado and have met and spoken with Pamela Mackey a few times. I don't remember the exact details as this was a few years ago... but in a conversation that had nothing to do with the JonBenet case (i.e. I didn't ask), we were just discussing public perception and it's importance in cases and whatnot, and she was talking about how frustrating the JonBenet case was because the Ramsey's absolutely had nothing to do with what happened to her. She said it with complete confidence and sincerity, and as I said before, I didn't ask about it at all. That conversation was enough for me to completely throw out the idea that they were involved.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHITEFANG View Post
    "Would you pull a cord deeply into your daughter's neck, believing she might dead, to cover-up evidence you just killed your her, accidentally?"
    If certain factors were involved, I hate to say it, but I wouldn't put it past me.

    Incidentally, I initially resisted voting.
    Last edited by SuperDave; 06-03-2010 at 04:58 PM.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wings Of Light View Post
    This is semi off-topic... and everyone can take this for what it's worth... which given my post count and history here is perhaps nothing... but I live in Colorado and have met and spoken with Pamela Mackey a few times. I don't remember the exact details as this was a few years ago... but in a conversation that had nothing to do with the JonBenet case (i.e. I didn't ask), we were just discussing public perception and it's importance in cases and whatnot, and she was talking about how frustrating the JonBenet case was because the Ramsey's absolutely had nothing to do with what happened to her. She said it with complete confidence and sincerity, and as I said before, I didn't ask about it at all. That conversation was enough for me to completely throw out the idea that they were involved.
    Wings of Light, you've put me in a tough spot, so let me put it this way:

    1) If I had a dollar for every time someone close to a killer said they were convinced they were completely innocent, I'd be a rich man.

    2) Pamela Mackey is a defense lawyer for the Haddon Law Firm, which the Rs hired. She makes her living convincing people that someone is innocent. Lawyers are the best con artists in existence.

    It just doesn't do it for me.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  5. #5
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    I couldn't but there are people out there that would and have done something horrible to cover up a murder............just read Ann Rule's books...........it's there.
    Kyron, HALEIGH, ADJI & Gabriel NEEDS PRAYERS NOW TO FIND THEM!. Zahra & Jonathan in heaven
    Justice for Hailey!!!!
    No Justice for Caylee Marie..........

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    Wings of Light, you've put me in a tough spot, so let me put it this way:

    1) If I had a dollar for every time someone close to a killer said they were convinced they were completely innocent, I'd be a rich man.

    2) Pamela Mackey is a defense lawyer for the Haddon Law Firm, which the Rs hired. She makes her living convincing people that someone is innocent. Lawyers are the best con artists in existence.

    It just doesn't do it for me.
    I obviously completely understand where you are coming from. Those points are both often very true.

    However...

    'Someone', and that person's attorney (she wasn't directly, but I know she worked on it extensively with Haddon, and handles all of their big cases now), are two very different things. I've dealt a fair bit with attorney's, and you develop a very special relationship with them... they really truly get to see who you are... and they get to know their clients VERY well - including if they are or aren't credible. Especially over a period of ten years.

    Additionally, I didn't ask for the information. I wasn't prying trying to figure out what she thought, she volunteered what she said. And also knowing her character... which is, extraordinarily sweet, understanding, and caring unless she's in the courtroom, etc... which is a huge difference from someone like, say, Harvey Steinberg, who's 'bedside manner' would make most people cringe. My point being, this wasn't someone trying to convince me of something... it was a matter of fact statement to back up something else she was saying.

    I don't expect to change anyone's mind or anything, perhaps she was lying, or perhaps the Ramsey's are very convincing themselves. I do think that it's valuable to know what she thinks, and that it should be weighted in one's mind when looking at the evidence. In my mind, if someone as smart as her, who has dealt with many, many criminals (she was a public defender for years too), and who worked on the case and probably spent hundreds of hours with them... thinks their client is innocent... that weighs pretty heavily for me.

  7. #7
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    No. Never.

    The grief would be paralizing.
    Doubt I could even tie a knott.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wings Of Light View Post
    I obviously completely understand where you are coming from. Those points are both often very true.
    You bet.

    I don't expect to change anyone's mind or anything, perhaps she was lying, or perhaps the Ramsey's are very convincing themselves.
    I don't know about the first. It just strikes me as the kind of thing a defense lawyer WOULD say, whether they believed them or not. As for the Ramseys being very convincing, they certainly have had that effect on some people. Even me, for a while.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  9. #9
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    An attorney would definitely say that whether they believed it or not. I don't think that she would have said it in the circumstances she did if she didn't believe it, though.

    Oh... She does spend her living convincing people that her clients are innocent... you have to remember though... she has clients that ARE innocent, and that have been falsely accused/charged with crimes... it happens more than most people think. It's easy for people to bash lawyers (not saying you were), but they very often do 'save' innocent people's lives.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wings Of Light View Post
    An attorney would definitely say that whether they believed it or not. I don't think that she would have said it in the circumstances she did if she didn't believe it, though.
    I understand that, Wings of Light. My point is that her opinion doesn't mean very much in terms of evidence. So when you say that her opinion "should be weighted in one's mind when looking at the evidence," I have to disagree, because I CAN'T let things like that influence me.

    Oh... She does spend her living convincing people that her clients are innocent... you have to remember though... she has clients that ARE innocent, and that have been falsely accused/charged with crimes... it happens more than most people think. It's easy for people to bash lawyers (not saying you were), but they very often do 'save' innocent people's lives.
    It may happen more often that we think, but it's not that often. I can respect what lawyers do for that reason. And believe me, if I were bashing her, you'd know it.

    Do you know why I resisted voting?
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Wings Of Light View Post
    An attorney would definitely say that whether they believed it or not. I don't think that she would have said it in the circumstances she did if she didn't believe it, though.

    Oh... She does spend her living convincing people that her clients are innocent... you have to remember though... she has clients that ARE innocent, and that have been falsely accused/charged with crimes... it happens more than most people think. It's easy for people to bash lawyers (not saying you were), but they very often do 'save' innocent people's lives.
    Hi WOL

    There are those on this forum who believe that parents in the R's position (that is having a child murdered in their home) is reason enough to suspect them of having done it. But, to also hire a lawyer is tantamount to PROOF of their guilt.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MurriFlower View Post
    But, to also hire a lawyer is tantamount to PROOF of their guilt.
    That is an absolutely and completely ridiculous thing to say.

    If you don't already know this, and you should, the first thing you should do before talking to a police officer about ANYTHING other than a speeding ticket is invoke your right to remain silent and talk to an attorney. It doesn't matter if you are innocent and know absolutely nothing about the crime they are talking about, or guilty. Any time you have to deal with police, you do it through an attorney and say NOTHING beforehand. Why?

    Watch this video (it's long, but this is something EVERYONE should see):

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc[/ame]
    Last edited by Wings Of Light; 06-03-2010 at 07:27 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    It may happen more often that we think, but it's not that often.
    I guess it comes down to your definition of often.

    Even if .05% of people charged with a crime are innocent, and that's EXTREMELY conservative, we are still talking about thousands of people.

    If you can't afford a good attorney, whether you are guilty or innocent, you will probably be convicted. Look at how many people convicted of murder are later released because of DNA evidence... and then think about the number of people out there that didn't have DNA evidence to fall back on, or weren't able to find a way to finance the DNA analysis. The number of people in that latter category is huge.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MurriFlower View Post
    There are those on this forum who believe that parents in the R's position (that is having a child murdered in their home) is reason enough to suspect them of having done it.
    Statistically, it IS.

    But, to also hire a lawyer is tantamount to PROOF of their guilt.
    Nonsense. There are a lot of things that point that way, but that one's not one of 'em.

    I am curious, though, WOL. That video you posted makes a fine argument. But what would you say about a lawyer who sent private eyes to sabotage witnesses?
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wings Of Light View Post
    I guess it comes down to your definition of often.
    I suppose so.

    If you can't afford a good attorney, whether you are guilty or innocent, you will probably be convicted.
    That doesn't apply here, WOL. The Rs were millionaires who could hire the best legal talent around, a law firm that owns half the state and had business ties with the DA's office. So why bring it up?
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

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