View Poll Results: Would you tighten a noose around the neck of your child

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  • Yes, but only to stay out of jail

    1 0.99%
  • Yes.

    0 0%
  • Yes, only if I knew she was already dead.

    2 1.98%
  • Are you out of your mind? No way.

    98 97.03%
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Thread: Would you pull a cord

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tadpole12 View Post
    Hey Madeleine.

    Maybe it's easier to demonize a woman.
    The BPD were looking for a role to fill,
    and PR could fill it.
    I don't know, Tadpole. Historically, law enforcement has been reticent to consider women as killers. Just something to keep in mind.
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  3. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    Before or after the murder? After, right?

    Well, there's your circular-logic lynch-mob 'protect the children' 'somebody's gonna hang for this' mentality. However, going after the parents seems a bit like hiding your head in the sand at this late date. Doesn't it? I mean, given the facts of the case?
    Yep, couldn't agree more. People have to move on from this. There is nothing but what exists in their minds to implicate the parents. Ok, they saw them and didn't like them, thought they were too rich, she too pretty, a bit up themselves, didn't agree with the pagents, didn't like the way they came across on TV, suspected them of 'buying' favours with the DA, yarda, yarda, yarda. Everything I've read here by RDI smacks of prejudice. Sorry guys, but there it is! There's nuthin. Ziltch. Zero. Get over it.

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  5. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    The "the R's thought she was dead when they pulled the cord and sexually assaulted her" is pure BS.IMO. Not only is there NO evidence to suggest that but it's the worse argument I've ever heard.
    The problem with that assertion is that this "BS" argument has an awful lot of real heavy hitters behind it. Don't kill the messenger.
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  6. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    UMI and "PR might have been frustrated because of the trip" and stuff are just excuses because there is no evidence that shows that she did something.IMO.So we come up with these kind of ideas because there is nothing else there and we desperately want her to be guilty .WHY.
    Why didn't the cops follow the JDI lead after finding out that she was abused before (so they SAY).
    Why is she the one people think she was out of her mind or frustrated or the one having a rage attack.WHY NOT JR.WHY.
    Circular reasoning: RDI has already decided that PR or JR did it, and so it becomes a simple matter of creating a story to reasonably account for some of the existing data, and adjusting that story as needed when new data comes along.

    Trouble is, the story already existed. The original data and newly discovered data will fit that story exactly.

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  8. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by MurriFlower View Post
    No, I guess this isn't the place for a theory, but I fail to see why a mother, upon finding her husband sexually abusing her 6yo daughter, would then commit such an horrific murder on the daughter.
    Probably for the same reasons that mothers sometimes blame the victims for being molested.

    The old swing at him and miss and hit her idea is a crock of .......
    Why's that?
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  9. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by MurriFlower View Post
    Absolutely correct HOTYH. There's just one issue you haven't addresssed.

    People didn't like them
    Quote Originally Posted by HoldontoYourHat
    Before or after the murder? After, right?

    Well, there's your circular-logic lynch-mob 'protect the children' 'somebody's gonna hang for this' mentality.
    Have fun, you two.

    However, going after the parents seems a bit like hiding your head in the sand at this late date. Doesn't it? I mean, given the facts of the case?
    Quite the opposite.
    Last edited by SuperDave; 06-05-2010 at 01:13 AM.
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  10. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by MurriFlower View Post
    There is nothing but what exists in their minds to implicate the parents.
    That's complete nonsense.

    Ok, they saw them and didn't like them, thought they were too rich, she too pretty, a bit up themselves, didn't agree with the pagents, didn't like the way they came across on TV, suspected them of 'buying' favours with the DA, yarda, yarda, yarda.
    I can't speak for any other people, but that's not what happened with me.

    Everything I've read here by RDI smacks of prejudice.
    Boy, if that's not throwing stones in a glass house. This whole thread is nothing BUT prejudice, an excuse to engage in self-righteousness.
    Last edited by SuperDave; 06-05-2010 at 01:15 AM.
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  11. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    Boy, if that's not throwing stones in a glass house. This whole thread is nothing BUT prejudice, an excuse to engage in self-righteousness.
    Now now, take it easy, SuperDave...

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  13. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    Now now, take it easy, SuperDave...
    HOTYH, that needed to be said. I thank you sincerely.

    Look at us. We're all getting crazy, like blood-mad wolves. That's no good. We have to remember that we're all good people doing what we think is best for a little girl. We owe her more than this. Let's all pull back a bit, okay?
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  15. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHITEFANG View Post
    I guess that makes me a maternal paternal or Mr. Mom. I would find it much easier to finish myself off than to have done and then to do what is theorized the Ramsey's did.
    Thank you.My thoughts exactly.I couldn't live with it.

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  17. #111
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    RDI also encompasses other family members. It isn't strictly a JR or PR thing for me.
    Re the socioeconomic level of 80% of filicides- I assume you meant that people who are financially stressed are who we USUALLY see involved in this kind of thing. But there is 20% that do not have that stress. This wasn't something that financial difficulties caused. This was something that emotional difficulties caused. And that spans all socioeconomic levels.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

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  19. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    RDI also encompasses other family members. It isn't strictly a JR or PR thing for me.
    Re the socioeconomic level of 80% of filicides- I assume you meant that people who are financially stressed are who we USUALLY see involved in this kind of thing. But there is 20% that do not have that stress. This wasn't something that financial difficulties caused. This was something that emotional difficulties caused. And that spans all socioeconomic levels.
    No drugs, no alcohol, no socioeconomic places this murder, as a filicide, outside the bell curve. This is even before we consider that JBR was sexually assaulted and strangled to death, which is atypical for filicide. Add to that the bizarre ransom note, and top-flight FBI profilers: "I've never in my 35 years seen anything like this, I mean its totally bizarre."

    For these reasons, statistics on filicide aren't really applicable in this case, in the sense that 'if a child is found dead in the home..." Its what RDI grasps at in the absense of hard evidence.
    Last edited by Holdontoyourhat; 06-05-2010 at 10:07 PM.

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  21. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post
    No drugs, no alcohol
    We don't know that, do we?

    and top-flight FBI profilers: "I've never in my 35 years seen anything like this, I mean its totally bizarre."
    I notice you don't quote the OTHER things they said.

    For these reasons, statistics on filicide aren't really applicable in this case, in the sense that 'if a child is found dead in the home..." Its what RDI grasps at in the absense of hard evidence.
    Not so, HOTYH. I, for one, use the statistics the way a drunk uses a lamppost: for support, not illumination. The way I see it, I've got plenty of support already.
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  22. #114
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    One thing's sure: I've definitely been taking thw wrong approach. I apologize for my part. This thread brought a lot of old resentments up, resentment that the kind of thinking that states "I couldn't kill my kid (I THINK), so they couldn't either" was so prevalent among people who definitely should have known better. And you don't have to take my word for that. I can quote 'em to you.

    But enough of that. Perhaps a new perspective is in order. So, I defer to one with far greater wisdom in these matters than I have. FBI behavioral analyst Ron Walker was asked in a TV interview flat-out if he thought a parent were capable of doing this. This is his answer verbatim:

    "Well, as much as it pains me to say it, yes. I've seen parents who have decapitated their children, I've seen cases where parents have drowned their children in bathtubs, I've seen cases where parents have strangled their children, have placed them in paper bags and smothered them, have strapped them in car seats and driven them into a body of water, any way that you can think of that a person can kill another person, almost all those ways are also ways that parents can kill their children."
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  23. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    One thing's sure: I've definitely been taking thw wrong approach. I apologize for my part. This thread brought a lot of old resentments up, resentment that the kind of thinking that states "I couldn't kill my kid (I THINK), so they couldn't either" was so prevalent among people who definitely should have known better. And you don't have to take my word for that. I can quote 'em to you.

    But enough of that. Perhaps a new perspective is in order. So, I defer to one with far greater wisdom in these matters than I have. FBI behavioral analyst Ron Walker was asked in a TV interview flat-out if he thought a parent were capable of doing this. This is his answer verbatim:

    "Well, as much as it pains me to say it, yes. I've seen parents who have decapitated their children, I've seen cases where parents have drowned their children in bathtubs, I've seen cases where parents have strangled their children, have placed them in paper bags and smothered them, have strapped them in car seats and driven them into a body of water, any way that you can think of that a person can kill another person, almost all those ways are also ways that parents can kill their children."
    "I couldn't kill my kid (I THINK), so they couldn't either".This is not what I think.This is not my argument,,dunno about others.
    And re what Walker said,I guess we are all well aware that SOME people are capable of such things but maybe the people he is talking about had a background.
    I just wanted to know what makes you think that THESE two people were capable of this.What actions of theirs,what part of their behavior.Cause you are the one giving me this line "if everybody is capable of it,the R's were too".It's the same kind of argument you accuse others of using.

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  25. #116
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    If I personally wouldn't do it that doesn't mean that the R's didn't.But WHAT makes you think that they did?I mean,you must base this argument on something,what is it.Everybody is capable of this is not an answer and this poll shows it.So what is it that makes you think that these two were capable of such things.There's nothing in their background and I am sure you agree LE did everything in their power to find out the R's dirty/creepy secrets .It was nothing there.

  26. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    If I personally wouldn't do it that doesn't mean that the R's didn't.But WHAT makes you think that they did?I mean,you must base this argument on something,what is it.Everybody is capable of this is not an answer and this poll shows it.So what is it that makes you think that these two were capable of such things.There's nothing in their background and I am sure you agree LE did everything in their power to find out the R's dirty/creepy secrets .It was nothing there.
    Yup. Nothin. Zilch. Zero. It's all smoke and mirrors.

  27. #118
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    I really respect Gregg McCrary ,love the guy and I know that most RDI's see his ideas as being pro RDI(been there).But IMO what he says about the killer can be applied to friends of the family as well.IIRC he never said "I think it was PR or JR".He says" In conclusion, the totality of the evidence is more consistent with an offender known to JonBenét — one who was comfortable in and familiar with the layout of the house — than it is with a stranger." Nevermind , look what he told the Daily Camera:


    "I don't think the offender has any remorse for this crime because of the way the crime was committed.Right in the aftermath of this murder,the killer sat down and wrote a ransom note-he's not sorry he did it,he's just trying not to get caught."


    Doesn't sound very RDI to me.
    And we're back to-why do RDI's think that the R's were capable of this.
    Last edited by madeleine; 06-06-2010 at 09:54 AM.

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  29. #119
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    More:

    McCrary described JonBenet's killer as calculating and manipulative.

    "He may have quickly constructed an alibi, but I don't ... think he'd rehearse it, because he's a very self-confident guy to create this kind of staging (with the ransom note)," McCrary said. "This is someone who is glib, who has superficial charm but ultimately is very cold blooded."

    http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ram...7/07/24-2.html

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  31. #120
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    Boulder Police Chief Tom Koby

    "The person who did this is living in hell right now because no matter what happens, they know they did something terrible and extremely violent."

    http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ram...7/12/28-3.html

  32. #121
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    cold blooded person
    no remorse
    doing extremely violent things


    What makes you think the R's FIT?

  33. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holdontoyourhat View Post

    For these reasons, statistics on filicide aren't really applicable in this case, in the sense that 'if a child is found dead in the home..." Its what RDI grasps at in the absense of hard evidence.
    ITA.


    Q. There's no way to use other case studies?
    A.(Koby) The fact of the matter is the Boulder Police Department is now the experts, the only experts, in this kind of case.

    Now we have an answer as to why this case wasn't solved so far.

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  35. #123
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    Very interesting ,also by G.McCrary

    The victim was both strangled and bludgeoned, with the bludgeoning occurring afterward

    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/n...rofiled/6.html

    She had also suffered blunt force trauma to the head, after strangulation.

    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/n...rofiled/4.html

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  37. #124
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    IMO BOTH McCrary and Douglas are actually saying the same thing.
    It was someone who knew JB,knew the house&the family.No stranger.

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  39. #125
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    And here's Kirschner,loved by RDI's because he says head blow came first.
    Says the following:

    While Wecht concluded the girl was strangled during a "sex game" using the cord and accidentally killed, with the murderer taking pains to cover the crime up, another renowned child abuse expert, Dr. Robert Kirschner, believes the autopsy results reveal a planned act of violence.

    "I think it shows whoever wanted to kill this child really did not like this child," said Kirschner, retired deputy chief medical examiner of Cook County, Ill., and a clinical associate at in the pathology and sociology departments at the University of Chicago. "Garroting takes away the potential it was a spontaneous act in anger."

    http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ram...7/08/14-2.html

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