View Poll Results: Clever or Lucky

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  • Rs were clever

    2 4.08%
  • Rs were lucky

    47 95.92%
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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by MurriFlower View Post
    No, you really shouldn't assume such things, it's just I wouldn't call myself an 'expert'. Yes, kids are frustrating, but this doesn't answer my question to SD, which was, where did you get this information and is it really accurate?
    As I said, from the journal "Pediatrics" and from the Child Abuse Prevention Center. Now, specifically, ST said in his deposition that the main proponent of the toilet rage murder scenario, was Richard Krugman, Dean of the University of Colorado Medical School. Take a look here:

    [ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5858"]The Bonita Papers - Forums For Justice[/ame] about 7/8s down the page.

    If it is as you say (not that I believe it), anyone familiar with the household would have know this.
    That's true. The questions in my mind are: to what purpose? If it was a kidnapping for ransom, and it went wrong and JB ended up with a fractured skull, then why bother doing all of that stuff to her?

    If the panties were unwrapped in the basement, anyone could have seen and used them.
    If, yes. But were they in the basement? Wouldn't it make more sense to keep them in JB's room? That's the impression I always got: that they were found in an open pack in one of JB's dresser drawers. So, that raises some questions: did the person go back up after them? And if so, what for? And if they took them with JB down the stairs, why just that one pair?

    Yes, that old flashlight again. If it was PR she would have just turned on the lights in her own home. Somewhat less suspicious than walking around in the dark holding a flashlight. Are you suggesting she wrote the RN by the light of the flashlight?
    My questions are: was the flashlight even used? Moreover, being seen using a flashlight would only be more suspicious if someone were to actually see the beal of light moving around in the house. Whereas, turning on the lights would have been more noticable. As for what DD is suggesting, I'd have to wait for her response, just like you.

    Well, not that I actually believe that it was used, but RDI does - the Swiss Army Knife. Didn't you contend that the tape was in the drawer upstairs (kitchen?) Wouldn't she have needed to go upstairs to get the flashlight? She was carrying an unconscious JBR (presumably wrapped in a blanket) to the basement, so wouldn't really have been able to open doors and carry all that stuff with her in one trip.
    This is the pitfall of taking up Fang's challenge, since these questions were addressed to DD and she's the only one who knows the answers. So, I'll have to give it my best shot.

    Didn't you contend that the tape was in the drawer upstairs (kitchen?)
    I don't know about that. Speaking from experience, I keep mine on a peg over my dad's old workbench. That's where he kept his, so I figured if it ain't broke. But people do keep them in drawers, on top of cabinets, etc. It could have been upstairs. It might not have been.

    Wouldn't she have needed to go upstairs to get the flashlight?
    Possibly. Unless it was already in her pocket. I have a flashlight in the house, and that's a common place for it when I'm not using it but might have to take it out.

    She was carrying an unconscious JBR (presumably wrapped in a blanket) to the basement, so wouldn't really have been able to open doors and carry all that stuff with her in one trip.
    Hmm. I don't know about JB being wrapped in the blanket when she was taken down to the basement. My impression is that it was taken out down there and she was wrapped in it then. But you make a good point about not being able to carry all of that stuff in one trip, provided some of it wasn't already there. And it's possible that there were trips up and down, or a single trip, anyway. As for not being able to open a door, I'd say it's likely that all of the doors above the basement floor were already open. But there is evidence that JB was set down at one point in the basement (her urine on the floor just outside the room), so that might be the answer to that one.
    Vae Victus! (May the conquered suffer!)
    Celerem vindictam manu! (Swift hand of vengeance!)


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  3. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHITEFANG View Post
    super, just list and explain in detail the samples that substantiate that you have "acknowledged quite extensively" the value of love as it pertains to this crime. Why haven't you done this? you made this assertion. I asked for proof. The "proof" you presented was proof you did not tell the truth. so go ahead and list and explain or admit you have not been honest.
    What would you LIKE, Fang? I've been here four years. I can't be expected to remember every word of every post I've ever written. Moreover, the proof I gave you in the form of that book snippet has made the round here before. Sophie's mother had the same issue you have, and when she read it, it changed her mind about me. Anyone can see I'm not motivated by hatred.

    that was far more than a poor choice of words, especially for someone who has made murderous charges against this family continuously for years.
    You'll have to explain that one to me.

    the question was how did they conceal their guilt after killing their child when they were on television? You answered, "dissociation." Now you answer, "perhaps suppression." Well now explain that, will you? Not with a trite dismissal.
    Well, it's a fairly common occurrence for a person to repress painful memories. I use the example of my father and uncle, who served in Vietnam. They actively tried to forget the things they had seen and done there, an action which was encouraged by the government. In this particular instance, Dr. Anthony Pietropinto, a NY psychoanalyst, has said that often, it becomes a cycle of denial, each step reinforcing another. Our friend HOTYH has used the term "circular reasoning," and that's a good description for it. In this instance it would go something like this:

    This isn't me--I couldn't have done this--they haven't arrested me--if they haven't arrested me, they must not have any evidence--if they have no evidence, then I couldn't have done it--if I didn't do it, then I'm innocent--if I'm innocent, why are they picking on me?

    That's one of your biggest vulnerabilities. You dismiss, minimize, defer, ignore instead of backing up your intellectual arguments.
    I've been here four years, Fang. I know all about dismissal, minimization and ignorance. I've certainly been subjected to enough of it. I'm burned out by it. That's why I'm like I am. Just in the time you've been here, I've made several attempts at honest, intellectual conversation and debate, and in each case my hopes were dashed.
    Vae Victus! (May the conquered suffer!)
    Celerem vindictam manu! (Swift hand of vengeance!)


  4. #78
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    SuperDave;5355071]What would you LIKE, Fang? I've been here four years. I can't be expected to remember every word of every post I've ever written. Moreover, the proof I gave you in the form of that book snippet has made the round here before. Sophie's mother had the same issue you have, and when she read it, it changed her mind about me. Anyone can see I'm not motivated by hatred.
    Are you serious? Don't answer. That was rhetorical. I found nothing about parent-child bonding, parental instincts to protect, the strongest form of love known to exist on earth, that to continue in their lies without ever displaying the kind of grief or shame the woman you describe in your snippet would experience...I shouldn't have to teach you this.

    I never suggested your love was the main issue. I spoke of love as a component of this tragedy. It is a huge factor and it doesn't exist in your mind and that is scary, very scary, truly. The fact that you don't get that is very scary too. However, it helps to explain why you buy into utter nonsense. Let me add, not everyone who believes as you do has this problem. But, you do.

    And even when you try to defend yourself by insisting that you have acknowledged the importance of love in this matter, you miss the point by a mile. What you prefer, is to argue your way through your dilemma.

    For example, how weak is this? "I can't be expected to remember every word of every post...." Please SD, how pathetic is that? No one asked you to. You defended yourself by claiming how extensively you embraced and referenced "love."
    You shouldn't have to try to find examples, not if it is really true. Your ability to express your belief should flow from your keyboard as easily as the junk you peddle as evidence for your theory.

    Well, it's a fairly common occurrence for a person to repress painful memories.
    Of course it is. No one can deny that with a straight face. But this is a bit like how polys work, supposedly. No matter how hard we try to suppress painful thoughts and memories, no one can do what you say they did unless they are sick. Plus, it is the last thing a person wants to do; That is, engage in a discussion in front of millions of people to rehash what they are desperately trying not to think about.

    And circular reasoning is different than repression of memories.

    Don't confuse this either. Just because someone wants to suppress his memories, doesn't mean he will be able to, especially when guilt, real guilt for a killing and a cover-up of her helpless child took place.

    If you cannot address these facts honestly and legitimately, please don't respond at all.
    Last edited by WHITEFANG; 07-01-2010 at 05:38 PM.


  5. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    As I said, from the journal "Pediatrics" and from the Child Abuse Prevention Center. Now, specifically, ST said in his deposition that the main proponent of the toilet rage murder scenario, was Richard Krugman, Dean of the University of Colorado Medical School. Take a look here:
    I will look this up then and try to confirm that bedwetting is the No 1 cause of parents murdering their children.
    Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    MF, it might interest you to know that the leading cause of inflicted childhood fatalities is "toilet rage." Then again, it might not.
    .
    Is this what you contend?

    The Bonita Papers - Forums For Justice about 7/8s down the page.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this an unpublished book written by a secretary in a legal firm? And are you using this as evidence to back up what you have said about the toilet issue?

    That's true. The questions in my mind are: to what purpose? If it was a kidnapping for ransom, and it went wrong and JB ended up with a fractured skull, then why bother doing all of that stuff to her?
    There was IMO no kidnapping as such, just a 'simulation' of a kidnapping. Hide her under the house, don't ask too much money, make over the top threats, get the cash quick and then let them know where she's hidden.

    What went wrong, is that the wrong person was left to mind her. Here's where I descend into the abyss. It's very dark down here and hard to see exactly what's happened. I think that substance (alcohol and or drug) induced psychosis might feature. Scary stuff and without logic or reason. In an interesting way, its a little like what RDI tries to put on PR!


    If, yes. But were they in the basement? Wouldn't it make more sense to keep them in JB's room? That's the impression I always got: that they were found in an open pack in one of JB's dresser drawers. So, that raises some questions: did the person go back up after them? And if so, what for? And if they took them with JB down the stairs, why just that one pair?
    I was working on the assumption that they were supposed to have been left in the winecellar awaiting wrapping? I'm not even sure this bloomies thing is genuine. Was it ever proved that she had on knickers that were too large and were meant for a gift for someone? I get the feeling it's just another false lead. Perhaps you can clarify?

    My questions are: was the flashlight even used? Moreover, being seen using a flashlight would only be more suspicious if someone were to actually see the beal of light moving around in the house. Whereas, turning on the lights would have been more noticable. As for what DD is suggesting, I'd have to wait for her response, just like you.
    OK we wait.

    This is the pitfall of taking up Fang's challenge, since these questions were addressed to DD and she's the only one who knows the answers. So, I'll have to give it my best shot.



    I don't know about that. Speaking from experience, I keep mine on a peg over my dad's old workbench. That's where he kept his, so I figured if it ain't broke. But people do keep them in drawers, on top of cabinets, etc. It could have been upstairs. It might not have been.

    Possibly. Unless it was already in her pocket. I have a flashlight in the house, and that's a common place for it when I'm not using it but might have to take it out.
    The flashlight was supposedly kept in the drawer near the kitchen.

    The Swiss Army Knife was in the closet on the same level as the childrens bedrooms.

    Hmm. I don't know about JB being wrapped in the blanket when she was taken down to the basement. My impression is that it was taken out down there and she was wrapped in it then. But you make a good point about not being able to carry all of that stuff in one trip, provided some of it wasn't already there. And it's possible that there were trips up and down, or a single trip, anyway. As for not being able to open a door, I'd say it's likely that all of the doors above the basement floor were already open. But there is evidence that JB was set down at one point in the basement (her urine on the floor just outside the room), so that might be the answer to that one.
    Yeah, I don't know who started the thing about the blanket being in the dryer in the basement, perhaps LHP. PR seemed to think it looked (in the bad photo she was shown) like the blanket from JBRs bed, which was a cotton open weave.

    I've also been under the impression that it was concluded (by whom I don't know?) that she was actually killed where the urine stain was. Then taken into the winecellar. Perhaps that isn't true either.


  6. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    Your wish is my command:

    In the medical journal, Pediatrics.1999; 103: 1364-1366., an article titled, "Toilet Training Guidelines: CliniciansThe Role of the Clinician in Toilet Training" states:

    "more child abuse occurs during toilet training than during any other developmental step..."
    I can't access this site.

    Also, The Child Abuse Prevention Council (CAPC) states:

    "Head trauma is the leading cause of death in child abuse." CAPC further asserts that "child Death Review Teams in Colorado and Oregon have identified some "triggers" that occurred just before many children's death from abuse" Of the 4 listed triggers, the 3rd listed is "failed potty training."
    "Head trauma is the leading cause of child abuse death among babies. The 100% preventable Shaken Baby Syndrome is a major cause of death, where 25% of victims die and the majority of survivors suffer brain damage. "

    Yeah, another quote from a reliable source, cropped to change it's meaning to support your RDI case. Head trauma by shaking is a bit different to being bashed and strangled.

    Both of these can be accessed here:

    http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/Pa...tingRageTheory
    Links don't work.

    I couldn't tell you what the other two are. You may well be right.
    Well, I'll see if I can find out.


    I did! I laughed out loud when I read it. Though, probably for different reasons.
    I thought you said it wasn't funny?


    You know, I may have to take some of it back. Maybe you DO understand.
    Yep, maybe I do.


  7. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    Depending on what kind of gloves they are, anywhere from a little to a lot. (I tried that particular experiment.)
    Less painful than the stun gun experiment LOL


  8. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHITEFANG View Post
    Unless the intruder was familiar with what was already there. LHP knew the contents of the dryer on the 25th.
    Maybe not. LHP would have no way of knowing if Patsy had taken the blanket out of the dryer between the 23rd and 25th. LHP was last there on the day of the 23rd (when she presumably laundered and changed JB's bed linens). I contend that it WAS LHP who put the white blanket in the basement dryer as she said it was always washed there, instead of the washer outside of JB's room (which was smaller, apartment-sized set).
    I also feel that JB probably wet the bed again on the NIGHT of the 23rd and maybe also the 24th, and with LHP not scheduled to come until after the Rs left for their trip, Patsy changed the sheets herself, but didn't bother to go to the basement to get the blanket, instead making up the bed without it. This was discussed by LE when they showed he photos of JB's bed, clearly showing there was no blanket and no way anyone could remove a blanket and still leave the foot of the bed undisturbed.
    LHP, when shown a photo of JB's bed, told LE the sheets on the bed were not the ones she put on when she was last there on the 23rd.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.


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  10. #83
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    DeeDee
    Maybe not. LHP would have no way of knowing if Patsy had taken the blanket out of the dryer between the 23rd and 25th. LHP was last there on the day of the 23rd (when she presumably laundered and changed JB's bed linens).
    Check what she said.

    * The blanket wrapped around JonBenet's body had been left in the dryer. There was still a Barbie Doll nightgown clinging to the blanket, so it had to have come out of the dryer recently, she said. Only Patsy would have known it was in the dryer, she said.
    LHP


  11. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHITEFANG View Post
    Check what she said.

    LHP
    Isn't that what I said? I said LHP would have put the blanket in the dryer when she was last there (on the 23rd) and would have no way of knowing if Patsy took it out, put it back, and laundered it again. But Patsy would know it was in the dryer when she needed it.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.


  12. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHITEFANG View Post
    That was rhetorical.
    I get the feeling most of what you say falls into that category.

    I found nothing about parent-child bonding, parental instincts to protect, the strongest form of love known to exist on earth, that to continue in their lies without ever displaying the kind of grief or shame the woman you describe in your snippet would experience...I shouldn't have to teach you this.
    You don't. Okay, look. Let's take this one step at a time. I'll take responsibility and say that I misunderstood what you meant. I guess the reason you haven't seen much of that in what I say is because I believe that this all came about in a situation where all of that was forgotten in one horrible instant. And as for her not displaying guilt or shame, I guess that's a matter of opinion. Just about everything they did can be read one way or another. And I believe she truly wanted to bare her soul. I realize that to you I'm not considering a lot of factors. But that cuts both ways.

    I never suggested your love was the main issue. I spoke of love as a component of this tragedy.
    Okay, then.

    It is a huge factor and it doesn't exist in your mind and that is scary, very scary, truly.
    You're right about that: it would be scary. It would scare me, too. IF it were the case. It exists in my mind. It just doesn't override everything else. Much as I don't like it, it has to take a backseat. I'm not some emotionless, Mr. Freeze-type like you make out.

    However, it helps to explain why you buy into utter nonsense.
    That is one of the many difference between us, Fang. Far as I go, the nonsense is what the other side preaches and them being overwhelmed by emotional considerations allows them to believe it.

    Let me add, not everyone who believes as you do has this problem. But, you do.
    For example?

    And even when you try to defend yourself by insisting that you have acknowledged the importance of love in this matter, you miss the point by a mile.
    Oh, I get the point better than you realize. I let emotions rule my thinking before. Not again.

    It's a rotten case, isn't it? if you believe in them, you're foolish. If you don't, you're heartless. Those seem to be the choices.

    What you prefer, is to argue your way through your dilemma.
    Don't take it personally, Fang. I've been that way as long as I can remember.

    For example, how weak is this? "I can't be expected to remember every word of every post...." Please SD, how pathetic is that? No one asked you to. You defended yourself by claiming how extensively you embraced and referenced "love."
    You shouldn't have to try to find examples, not if it is really true. Your ability to express your belief should flow from your keyboard as easily as the junk you peddle as evidence for your theory.
    It's not easy for some people, Fang. None of the men in my family have been good with those kinds of emotions. Me least of all, I'm sorry to say.

    Of course it is. No one can deny that with a straight face. But this is a bit like how polys work, supposedly. No matter how hard we try to suppress painful thoughts and memories, no one can do what you say they did unless they are sick.
    That's a whole other issue, Fang.

    Plus, it is the last thing a person wants to do; That is, engage in a discussion in front of millions of people to rehash what they are desperately trying not to think about.
    You'd think so. But there were a lot of different factors involved. I think one of the cops said it best: "she's totally rationalized this in her mind and can vizualize an intruder."

    And circular reasoning is different than repression of memories.
    Yes and no. They're both forms of denial.

    Don't confuse this either. Just because someone wants to suppress his memories, doesn't mean he will be able to, especially when guilt, real guilt for a killing and a cover-up of her helpless child took place.
    That's true. But guilt is only one of many emotions. And some have more power than others.

    If you cannot address these facts honestly and legitimately, please don't respond at all.
    Like it or not, Fang, but the answers I've just given you are the only ones I can give you.
    Vae Victus! (May the conquered suffer!)
    Celerem vindictam manu! (Swift hand of vengeance!)


  13. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by MurriFlower View Post
    I will look this up then and try to confirm that bedwetting is the No 1 cause of parents murdering their children. Is this what you contend?
    Sorry, I misspoke. I should have said one of the leading causes.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this an unpublished book written by a secretary in a legal firm?
    Something like that.

    And are you using this as evidence to back up what you have said about the toilet issue?
    Yes, I am, because it matches what others have said.

    There was IMO no kidnapping as such, just a 'simulation' of a kidnapping. Hide her under the house, don't ask too much money, make over the top threats, get the cash quick and then let them know where she's hidden.
    It doesn't wash for me. Why not ask for the moon?

    What went wrong, is that the wrong person was left to mind her. Here's where I descend into the abyss. It's very dark down here and hard to see exactly what's happened. I think that substance (alcohol and or drug) induced psychosis might feature. Scary stuff and without logic or reason. In an interesting way, its a little like what RDI tries to put on PR!
    You're right about that.

    I was working on the assumption that they were supposed to have been left in the winecellar awaiting wrapping?
    First I've heard of it. That would make sense if they were still being sent to the niece, but not when JB had already laid claim to them.

    I'm not even sure this bloomies thing is genuine. Was it ever proved that she had on knickers that were too large and were meant for a gift for someone? I get the feeling it's just another false lead. Perhaps you can clarify?
    I can try. Them being too large has been proven. A poster over on Forums for Justice took panties of that size and placed them on one of their kids who was the same age. They used it for their avatar. You should be able to find it. As for them being a gift for the niece, well, I guess you'd have to take PR's word for it.

    The flashlight was supposedly kept in the drawer near the kitchen.
    Supposedly.

    The Swiss Army Knife was in the closet on the same level as the childrens bedrooms.
    I always thought it was in the kitchen.

    Yeah, I don't know who started the thing about the blanket being in the dryer in the basement, perhaps LHP. PR seemed to think it looked (in the bad photo she was shown) like the blanket from JBRs bed, which was a cotton open weave.
    Hmm. That opens up a few avenues, doesn't it?

    I've also been under the impression that it was concluded (by whom I don't know?) that she was actually killed where the urine stain was. Then taken into the winecellar. Perhaps that isn't true either.
    I'd have to say it isn't.

    I can't access this site.
    Worked all right this afternoon.

    "Head trauma is the leading cause of child abuse death among babies. The 100% preventable Shaken Baby Syndrome is a major cause of death, where 25% of victims die and the majority of survivors suffer brain damage. "

    Yeah, another quote from a reliable source, cropped to change it's meaning to support your RDI case. Head trauma by shaking is a bit different to being bashed and strangled.
    Hey! I didn't crop anything. That's how I got it. I didn't see anything about infants. I acted in good faith.

    Links don't work.
    Don't know what to tell you, MF.

    Well, I'll see if I can find out.
    I'll wait.

    I thought you said it wasn't funny?
    It wasn't. The idea behind it was!

    Yep, maybe I do.
    Maybe.

    Less painful than the stun gun experiment LOL
    You got that right!
    Vae Victus! (May the conquered suffer!)
    Celerem vindictam manu! (Swift hand of vengeance!)


  14. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    Hmm. I don't know about JB being wrapped in the blanket when she was taken down to the basement. My impression is that it was taken out down there and she was wrapped in it then. But you make a good point about not being able to carry all of that stuff in one trip, provided some of it wasn't already there. And it's possible that there were trips up and down, or a single trip, anyway. As for not being able to open a door, I'd say it's likely that all of the doors above the basement floor were already open. But there is evidence that JB was set down at one point in the basement (her urine on the floor just outside the room), so that might be the answer to that one.
    TT: And is that what she had on the night of the 25th when she went to bed. When you pulled back all the sheets and stuff. Is that the uh, she had a couple of sheets, fitted sheets, flat sheets, this light blanket . . .
    PR: Right.

    TT: . . .and then the heavy kind of quilted. . .
    PR: Well, right, um hum. I usually turn the bed spread down.
    TT: Um hum.
    PR: (Inaudible) didnít have that on her because itís hot.
    TT: She doesnít use the bed spread, right?
    PR: Right.
    ]T: Can you describe the blankets again is it, I take it a fairly light weight cotton blanket?
    PR: Yeah, kind of a loose weave blanket.

    TT: Okay. Okay. What I would like to do is show you a picture of a blanket, itís got a scale and itís a white blanket with what you describe as a loose weave and all that. Itís got a scale around the outside is all. Is this, does that kind of look like the blanket, there you go Pat, that was on her bed that night? And again, itís uh, itís folded up. Hard, kind of hard to see.
    PR: Yeah. Yeah, it was probably, yeah.
    TT: Does that look like the kind of blanket that was on her bed.
    PR: Um hum.
    TT: Or was that the blanket on her bed?
    PR: I, it may have been, yeah. I canít, I mean it sort of looks a little pinkish. It was . . .
    TT: And, and that might be . . .
    PR: It was white.
    TT: . . .that might be the coloring of the picture.
    PR: Yeah.
    TT: Uh, because the colors are not very good.
    PR: Right.
    TT: Itís actually an all white blanket.
    PR: Is it? Um hum.
    TT: The colors are kind of deceiving on that.
    PR: Yeah. It, it could have been.
    ---------------------------------------------

    22 THOMAS HANEY: So that lighter
    23 blanket that you talked about would have been
    24 tucked in between the mattress and the box
    25 spring?
    0247
    1 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum. Oh, you
    2 mean -- you know how you make it, tuck it right
    3 here, you know.
    4 TRIP DeMUTH: Under the mattress?
    5 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, right, so it
    6 doesn't pull out.
    7 TRIP DeMUTH: So the blanket would
    8 have been tucked all the way down to the foot of
    9 the bed.
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: Correct, under
    11 this, under that.
    12 TRIP DeMUTH: Then the bedspread
    13 looks like it's properly and evenly distributed
    14 at the foot of the bed?
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: You're right.
    16 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you see the
    17 blanket in there at all?
    18 PATSY RAMSEY: No. No.
    19 TRIP DeMUTH: She didn't, the
    20 blanket never worked itself out and laid loose
    21 on top of the bed, did it?
    22 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, sometimes.
    23 TRIP DeMUTH: You know, completely
    24 untucked, that's what I am asking. Do you know
    25 how JonBenet slept, if that was a normal
    0248
    1 practice or was it tucked in?
    2 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, something
    3 that kind of heavy, you know, this was fairly
    4 heavy. It was -- it would be unlikely that it
    5 would be completely out, without being pulled
    6 out.
    7 TRIP DeMUTH: Without the bedspread
    8 being disturbed also?
    9 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, I would think.
    10 THOMAS HANEY: When you put
    11 JonBenet to bed on Christmas night, was that
    12 lightweight blanket in the bed?
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I
    14 can't say for sure.
    15 THOMAS HANEY: Take a second and go
    16 back to that routine that night of --
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, God. I can't
    18 remember exactly.
    19 THOMAS HANEY: But it should have
    20 been?
    21 PATSY RAMSEY: Should have been.
    22 THOMAS HANEY: Or would have been
    23 probably?
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably.

    Well, PR said there was a white light blanket on the bed, although she couldn't id it from the photo, it apparently wasn't there after JBR was killed and there was a white light blanket around her, so I guess they could have had lots of these blankets, but I'm thinking it was taken from her bed. Unless you have credible evidence to the contrary?


  15. #88
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Ceti Alpha V
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    Quote Originally Posted by MurriFlower View Post
    TT: And is that what she had on the night of the 25th when she went to bed. When you pulled back all the sheets and stuff. Is that the uh, she had a couple of sheets, fitted sheets, flat sheets, this light blanket . . .
    PR: Right.

    TT: . . .and then the heavy kind of quilted. . .
    PR: Well, right, um hum. I usually turn the bed spread down.
    TT: Um hum.
    PR: (Inaudible) didn’t have that on her because it’s hot.
    TT: She doesn’t use the bed spread, right?
    PR: Right.
    ]T: Can you describe the blankets again is it, I take it a fairly light weight cotton blanket?
    PR: Yeah, kind of a loose weave blanket.

    TT: Okay. Okay. What I would like to do is show you a picture of a blanket, it’s got a scale and it’s a white blanket with what you describe as a loose weave and all that. It’s got a scale around the outside is all. Is this, does that kind of look like the blanket, there you go Pat, that was on her bed that night? And again, it’s uh, it’s folded up. Hard, kind of hard to see.
    PR: Yeah. Yeah, it was probably, yeah.
    TT: Does that look like the kind of blanket that was on her bed.
    PR: Um hum.
    TT: Or was that the blanket on her bed?
    PR: I, it may have been, yeah. I can’t, I mean it sort of looks a little pinkish. It was . . .
    TT: And, and that might be . . .
    PR: It was white.
    TT: . . .that might be the coloring of the picture.
    PR: Yeah.
    TT: Uh, because the colors are not very good.
    PR: Right.
    TT: It’s actually an all white blanket.
    PR: Is it? Um hum.
    TT: The colors are kind of deceiving on that.
    PR: Yeah. It, it could have been.
    ---------------------------------------------

    22 THOMAS HANEY: So that lighter
    23 blanket that you talked about would have been
    24 tucked in between the mattress and the box
    25 spring?
    0247
    1 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum. Oh, you
    2 mean -- you know how you make it, tuck it right
    3 here, you know.
    4 TRIP DeMUTH: Under the mattress?
    5 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, right, so it
    6 doesn't pull out.
    7 TRIP DeMUTH: So the blanket would
    8 have been tucked all the way down to the foot of
    9 the bed.
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: Correct, under
    11 this, under that.
    12 TRIP DeMUTH: Then the bedspread
    13 looks like it's properly and evenly distributed
    14 at the foot of the bed?
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: You're right.
    16 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you see the
    17 blanket in there at all?
    18 PATSY RAMSEY: No. No.
    19 TRIP DeMUTH: She didn't, the
    20 blanket never worked itself out and laid loose
    21 on top of the bed, did it?
    22 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, sometimes.
    23 TRIP DeMUTH: You know, completely
    24 untucked, that's what I am asking. Do you know
    25 how JonBenet slept, if that was a normal
    0248
    1 practice or was it tucked in?
    2 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, something
    3 that kind of heavy, you know, this was fairly
    4 heavy. It was -- it would be unlikely that it
    5 would be completely out, without being pulled
    6 out.
    7 TRIP DeMUTH: Without the bedspread
    8 being disturbed also?
    9 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, I would think.
    10 THOMAS HANEY: When you put
    11 JonBenet to bed on Christmas night, was that
    12 lightweight blanket in the bed?
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I
    14 can't say for sure.
    15 THOMAS HANEY: Take a second and go
    16 back to that routine that night of --
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, God. I can't
    18 remember exactly.
    19 THOMAS HANEY: But it should have
    20 been?
    21 PATSY RAMSEY: Should have been.
    22 THOMAS HANEY: Or would have been
    23 probably?
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably.

    Well, PR said there was a white light blanket on the bed, although she couldn't id it from the photo, it apparently wasn't there after JBR was killed and there was a white light blanket around her, so I guess they could have had lots of these blankets, but I'm thinking it was taken from her bed. Unless you have credible evidence to the contrary?
    Hmm. I'll give you this much, MF: you make things interesting. Doesn't really change things, though.
    Vae Victus! (May the conquered suffer!)
    Celerem vindictam manu! (Swift hand of vengeance!)


  16. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    Hmm. I'll give you this much, MF: you make things interesting. Doesn't really change things, though.
    I expect I should be grateful for even this small concession!

    I'll interpret this lack of argument as a grudging acknowledgement that it is probably correct that the blanket she was found in came off her bed (rather than out of the dryer).

    Don't diminish a small piece of evidence like this as of no importance! Just because you can't see that it changes matters much, it does, believe me.

    It's a bit like the 2" x 2" piece of black tape, that was supposedly (according to your sources) on her mouth, not being anything like the piece of silver tape, quite a bit longer than that, depicted in the photo of the blanket.

    While you're in a generous mood, how about acknowledging that these appear to be two completely different pieces of tape??


  17. #90
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Ceti Alpha V
    Posts
    11,709
    Quote Originally Posted by MurriFlower View Post
    I expect I should be grateful for even this small concession!
    When you got it, you got it.

    I'll interpret this lack of argument as a grudging acknowledgement that it is probably correct that the blanket she was found in came off her bed (rather than out of the dryer).
    It's an acknowledgement that I'm thinking about it. That doesn't mean I have no argument.

    Don't diminish a small piece of evidence like this as of no importance!
    I didn't say that. It could be important. It just might work in my favor.

    Just because you can't see that it changes matters much, it does, believe me.
    How do you figure?

    It's a bit like the 2" x 2" piece of black tape, that was supposedly (according to your sources) on her mouth, not being anything like the piece of silver tape, quite a bit longer than that, depicted in the photo of the blanket.

    While you're in a generous mood, how about acknowledging that these appear to be two completely different pieces of tape??
    Sorry, MurriFlower. No can do. I've not seen anything to show what you claim is anything more than a mirage.
    Vae Victus! (May the conquered suffer!)
    Celerem vindictam manu! (Swift hand of vengeance!)


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