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  1. #1
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    Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #17

    Please continue here.

    Thread 10



    Thread 9


    Please remember the TOS rules.

    Lots of off topic posts in the last thread. Please try to stay on track.

    Also - link your post to the case (show the connection) or don't hit the post button.

    Thanks

    ETA: Ground Rules

    Keep the discussion relevant to Stephany's murder. Treat Stephany's family with respect - they are victims also.

    No discussion of Natalie or JonBenet or their families. There must be a clear connection between Stephany's murder and the cases of the other two girls, publicized in the mainstream media, before any discussion will be allowed.

    The information regarding JVDS's dog and the homeless man MUST either be substantiated or dropped. At this point it appears this info is based on rumor/speculation. Show where the info comes from or drop it.

    No disparaging remarks about JVDS's mother. You may discuss what has been printed, her quotes in the media, etc. You may NOT bash her. She too is a victim of her son's behavior.

    As always - TOS applies. If you are having trouble, check the TOS forum. You will find a lot of info on threadequitte, dealing with other posters and the rules, long and short versions.

    If you have questions - ask a mod before posting.

    Thanks for your cooperation! And thank you for caring about Stephany.

    Salem
    Last edited by OkieGranny; 11-02-2015 at 01:12 AM. Reason: broken links

  2. #2
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    Ok here goes am taking this discussion on a new tangent (with approval of course)
    http://www.moxieq.com/article.php?aI...SSID=622277286

    Could this be a case of gay bashing

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...106245&page=19
    Last edited by newone; 06-20-2010 at 02:15 AM.

  3. #3
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    Theory - My Two Cents

    Sorry to bring it from another "closed" thread -- but I stand by the Peruvian charges --

    1.) It was a rage killing; problably triggered by sexual rejection, her lesbianism, and her period. (He took off her pants and discovered the sanitary napkin.)
    2.) The rage was not 100% aimed at Stephany, but a release of boundless suppressed rage, at his situation, life, women in general.
    3.) It was a blitz attack - over in minutes - given the differences in size between the killer and the victim.
    4.) The killing occurred early in their stay together.He spent time w/the corpse trying to figure out what to do.
    5.) The coffee runs were attempts at staging and establishing an alibi.
    6.) The robbery was incidental - she didn't have that much money with her - first accounts said 5000 soles - or about $1755. He paid as much to the taxi drivers, even gave them goods in kind. More $$ and he could have chartered a small plane and gone to Aruba. He was IMing money for a plane ticket.
    7) Anita is probably key - she hasn't gone there AFAIK - she seems distant and uncaring. JVDS was probably closer to his dad.
    8) I agree with Peruvian police - aggravated murder with simple robbery.

    <I know all of us - even the poor Flores family (who are now claiming she had $10K) want LWOP - and he could get it in a jury trial - but in a judge panel as exist in most countries - they will go where the evidence takes them without a lot of emotion clouding this issue - at least in theory.>

    There are two big mysteries now -- what happened to Natalee - the Stephany case is open and shut; and what was going on in the VDS household.
    Abuse of power comes as no surprise ---

    Police arrest only the obviously guilty ---

  4. #4
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    Reply to Post #785 from Bobarino

    referring to Post # 781 by Dolly1
    Quote:Excellent and very important post!

    Did you see my post of a study on improvement in behavior and criminal acts among teens undergoing diet change

    Yes I did Bobarino and thank you. I definitely believe Joran has been affected by what he ingested. Couple that being a spoiled boy protected by parents who knew he had anger/mental problems and you have disaster. What you said is so true.

    If a chemical or food doesn't affect someone they should not assume it's the same with other people. When I was 16 a boyfriend took me to me to a party and I took two puffs on a marijuana cigarette. He was dead against drugs and so was I, but because we'd been arguing I wanted to annoy him. - I was so immature. Within seconds, I couldn't even stand up and my boyfriend accused the people of putting something in the marijuana. They swore they hadn't, but none of them had ever seen anyone react like that from two puffs, so they said I had probably come to the party already stoned. We had been to dinner so my boyfriend knew it wasn't true. I was so glad someone believed me. I never touched drugs again and I was offered them a lot in college. I believe over a long period of time drugs/marijuana causes changes in the brain and can make a person unbalanced. Not everyone of course, but a person is not sharpest knife in the drawer anymore. Social behavior, memory etc all all affected. I still believe they should suffer the consequences though, they made their own decisions.

    Please excuse any misspellings or missing words in my posts. I am dyslexic and it is difficult for me to catch all mistakes, my eyes don't see them. Because of that, I usually lurk.
    ...we'll raise up our glasses against evil forces...whiskey for my men, beer for my horses!

  5. #5
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    It is too much for the mother

    Quote Originally Posted by brazen View Post
    Sorry to bring it from another "closed" thread -- but I stand by the Peruvian charges --

    1.) It was a rage killing; problably triggered by sexual rejection, her lesbianism, and her period. (He took off her pants and discovered the sanitary napkin.)
    2.) The rage was not 100% aimed at Stephany, but a release of boundless suppressed rage, at his situation, life, women in general.
    3.) It was a blitz attack - over in minutes - given the differences in size between the killer and the victim.
    4.) The killing occurred early in their stay together.He spent time w/the corpse trying to figure out what to do.
    5.) The coffee runs were attempts at staging and establishing an alibi.
    6.) The robbery was incidental - she didn't have that much money with her - first accounts said 5000 soles - or about $1755. He paid as much to the taxi drivers, even gave them goods in kind. More $$ and he could have chartered a small plane and gone to Aruba. He was IMing money for a plane ticket.
    7) Anita is probably key - she hasn't gone there AFAIK - she seems distant and uncaring. JVDS was probably closer to his dad.
    8) I agree with Peruvian police - aggravated murder with simple robbery.

    <I know all of us - even the poor Flores family (who are now claiming she had $10K) want LWOP - and he could get it in a jury trial - but in a judge panel as exist in most countries - they will go where the evidence takes them without a lot of emotion clouding this issue - at least in theory.>

    There are two big mysteries now -- what happened to Natalee - the Stephany case is open and shut; and what was going on in the VDS household.
    I wish to speak about Joran's mother. I believe she is burnt out. She tries to defend her son but knows he has mental issues and knows darn well he is violent and has murdered at least 3 people. He is her son the family nighmare. She said, "Perhaps it was time to let Joran go". That is someone who can't cope anymore. Her husband probably was the only one who could control him while she coped by staying in denial and stayed out of it. Joran should believe he killed his father, he was an officer of the court and the stress of knowing he helped cover up a murder probably did kill him.
    ...we'll raise up our glasses against evil forces...whiskey for my men, beer for my horses!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by newone View Post
    Ok here goes am taking this discussion on a new tangent (with approval of course)
    http://www.moxieq.com/article.php?aI...SSID=622277286

    Could this be a case of gay bashing

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...106245&page=19

    Joran had been complaining that he couldn't get a girl and what he probably meant was he wasn't getting any sex because no girl would give him the time of day.

    I just wonder if he didn't start getting funny with Steph thinking that because she went to his room with him that she was willing. He could have come on strong and yanked her pants off and she fought him and told him that she was gay and that could have been the straw that broke the camel's back. I can see him going into a rage because he thought he was going to finally get some sex and then to find out she is gay! I think he probably started beating the heck out of her and ended up killing her. He knew he was killing her yet just kept right on on purpose with his shirt,

    I think that after she was dead then he went through her pockets and took money and whatever else he took. I believe he took her to his room on some pretense or other but he thought he was going to have sex with her and get hold of her money at some point.

  7. #7
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    He continued killing her because he saw all the blood and knew he was in trouble. So he killed her and started thinking about staging and alibis.
    Abuse of power comes as no surprise ---

    Police arrest only the obviously guilty ---

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by newone View Post
    Ok here goes am taking this discussion on a new tangent (with approval of course)
    http://www.moxieq.com/article.php?aI...SSID=622277286

    Could this be a case of gay bashing

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...106245&page=19
    I think Joran believes Natalie and Natalie's mother were the cause of all his problems. He blames the victum and anyone holding him responsible. I think he vented his stored up rage on Stephany because she was a female.
    She probably stood up to him and that was enough to set him off. He is not a balanced person. Speaking of gay, I read in one post a while back that at one time, Joran had a relationship with a male. I can't remember his name. Made me wonder about the loyality of the friend who has been defending Joran on the NG Show. For a short-term friend he seems overly loyal to me. Of course, he could just be a publicity hound.
    ...we'll raise up our glasses against evil forces...whiskey for my men, beer for my horses!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolly1 View Post
    I wish to speak about Joran's mother. I believe she is burnt out. She tries to defend her son but knows he has mental issues and knows darn well he is violent and has murdered at least 3 people. He is her son the family nighmare. She said, "Perhaps it was time to let Joran go". That is someone who can't cope anymore. Her husband probably was the only one who could control him while she coped by staying in denial and stayed out of it. Joran should believe he killed his father, he was an officer of the court and the stress of knowing he helped cover up a murder probably did kill him.

    Who is the third person that Joran has murdered? Was the mother saying "Perhaps it was time to let Joran go" in something in the news? She was actually right though. I think daddy pampered Joran...covered for him and heaven knows what else. Joran was of age and he was old enough to be on his own. The kid has actually been on his own since he was in his early teens. It sounds like he came and went as he pleased...got to gamble and drink while underage, etc. His mother was no longer responsible for him and he should have been on his own...holding down a job...and growing into a man. I would imagine that Joran did exactly what he wanted to whether mom liked it or not when he was living in the home. She probably was relieved when he went off on his own.

    Even though she may have been glad that he moved on she is still holding up for him...making excuses for him...and denying a murder when her son has admitted he did it. If she is smart she will stay in Aruba and take care of her youngest son. Joran will be just fine on his own.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by brazen View Post
    Sorry to bring it from another "closed" thread -- but I stand by the Peruvian charges --

    1.) It was a rage killing; problably triggered by sexual rejection, her lesbianism, and her period. (He took off her pants and discovered the sanitary napkin.)
    2.) The rage was not 100% aimed at Stephany, but a release of boundless suppressed rage, at his situation, life, women in general.
    3.) It was a blitz attack - over in minutes - given the differences in size between the killer and the victim.
    4.) The killing occurred early in their stay together.He spent time w/the corpse trying to figure out what to do.
    5.) The coffee runs were attempts at staging and establishing an alibi.
    6.) The robbery was incidental - she didn't have that much money with her - first accounts said 5000 soles - or about $1755. He paid as much to the taxi drivers, even gave them goods in kind. More $$ and he could have chartered a small plane and gone to Aruba. He was IMing money for a plane ticket.
    7) Anita is probably key - she hasn't gone there AFAIK - she seems distant and uncaring. JVDS was probably closer to his dad.
    8) I agree with Peruvian police - aggravated murder with simple robbery.

    <I know all of us - even the poor Flores family (who are now claiming she had $10K) want LWOP - and he could get it in a jury trial - but in a judge panel as exist in most countries - they will go where the evidence takes them without a lot of emotion clouding this issue - at least in theory.>

    There are two big mysteries now -- what happened to Natalee - the Stephany case is open and shut; and what was going on in the VDS household.

    Re bolded ITA JVDS was probably closer to his Dad but don't assume Anita to be distant and uncaring. She was quoted in MSNBC saying "If he did this, he must bear the consequences. I can not embrace him," Anita van der Sloot said. She claims that her son was in recent years developed severe mental problems. " His departure to Peru was a flight to escape being committed to a clinic."
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37802494...news-americas/

    Kudos to Anita I say. How refreshing for a Mother to have the mental health and personal integrity to protect herself and her other son, while grieving the loss of her husband. There are enough examples of Mothers in complete denial, tampering with evidence, lying to authorities all the while screaming the injustice of it all on behalf of their innocent offspring. She isn't criticizing the Peruvian justice system or blaming anyone except the person who needed help, was offered it (probably repeatedly) and refused.
    She's setting a wonderful example to Jorans younger brother IMHO and that's exactly what she should be doing. It's too late for Joran. IMO Anita possesses
    the serenity to accept the things she cannot change, has the
    courage to change the things she can and is wise enough to know the difference.

    Injustice for Caylee Marie Anthony.

    Copyright that Cindy

    Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot. Nothing is going to get better. It's not. Dr. Suess


  11. #11
    kaRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolly1 View Post
    I wish to speak about Joran's mother. I believe she is burnt out. She tries to defend her son but knows he has mental issues and knows darn well he is violent and has murdered at least 3 people. He is her son the family nighmare. She said, "Perhaps it was time to let Joran go". That is someone who can't cope anymore. Her husband probably was the only one who could control him while she coped by staying in denial and stayed out of it. Joran should believe he killed his father, he was an officer of the court and the stress of knowing he helped cover up a murder probably did kill him.
    Are you professionally qualified to diagnose Anita and her ability to cope?
    She's actually doing exactly what a mentally healthy person and good Mother should at this point. She is a victim too and we should back off IMO.

    Injustice for Caylee Marie Anthony.

    Copyright that Cindy

    Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot. Nothing is going to get better. It's not. Dr. Suess

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolly1 View Post
    I wish to speak about Joran's mother. I believe she is burnt out. She tries to defend her son but knows he has mental issues and knows darn well he is violent and has murdered at least 3 people. He is her son the family nighmare. She said, "Perhaps it was time to let Joran go". That is someone who can't cope anymore. Her husband probably was the only one who could control him while she coped by staying in denial and stayed out of it. Joran should believe he killed his father, he was an officer of the court and the stress of knowing he helped cover up a murder probably did kill him.
    Although I think JVS had some serious mental problems, I still believe the parents turning a blind eye to the obvious problems belying Joran certainly enabled him. He should have been in counseling---along with the parents in trying to resolve these issues many years ago. Giving a teen a credit line at bars, clubs and casinos was certainly not doing anything constructive in changing his behavior. They were the adults in the situation and they made bad, bad choices. JVS was doing some pretty atrocious stuff when he was young --and would have no choice to go into therapy or off another gambling spree. JMO

    Paulus chose to cover up for Joran--he can't blame that on anyone but himself. They were lax in disiplining and giving proper consistant direction to him and now cry foul. It's a pity and shame really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaRN View Post
    Are you professionally qualified to diagnose Anita and her ability to cope?
    She's actually doing exactly what a mentally healthy person and good Mother should at this point. She is a victim too and we should back off IMO.
    When Paulus died of cardiac arrest in February this year, Anita reportedly went into a depression from which she hasn’t emerged.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...er-sloot/full/


    ...which by the way is totally understandable and the last need thing she needs is her 22 yr old idiot of a son acting out -- and you Don't need to be a professional to get that!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dolly1 View Post
    referring to Post # 781 by Dolly1
    Quote:Excellent and very important post!

    Did you see my post of a study on improvement in behavior and criminal acts among teens undergoing diet change

    Yes I did Bobarino and thank you. I definitely believe Joran has been affected by what he ingested. Couple that being a spoiled boy protected by parents who knew he had anger/mental problems and you have disaster. What you said is so true.

    If a chemical or food doesn't affect someone they should not assume it's the same with other people. When I was 16 a boyfriend took me to me to a party and I took two puffs on a marijuana cigarette. He was dead against drugs and so was I, but because we'd been arguing I wanted to annoy him. - I was so immature. Within seconds, I couldn't even stand up and my boyfriend accused the people of putting something in the marijuana. They swore they hadn't, but none of them had ever seen anyone react like that from two puffs, so they said I had probably come to the party already stoned. We had been to dinner so my boyfriend knew it wasn't true. I was so glad someone believed me. I never touched drugs again and I was offered them a lot in college. I believe over a long period of time drugs/marijuana causes changes in the brain and can make a person unbalanced. Not everyone of course, but a person is not sharpest knife in the drawer anymore. Social behavior, memory etc all all affected. I still believe they should suffer the consequences though, they made their own decisions.

    Please excuse any misspellings or missing words in my posts. I am dyslexic and it is difficult for me to catch all mistakes, my eyes don't see them. Because of that, I usually lurk.
    Another very wise and intelligent post Dolly1!

    I only wish I didn't have to stay anonymous, I'd tell you how to fix some of those problems like dyslexia. You can PM me though.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobbisangel View Post
    Who is the third person that Joran has murdered? Was the mother saying "Perhaps it was time to let Joran go" in something in the news? She was actually right though. I think daddy pampered Joran...covered for him and heaven knows what else. Joran was of age and he was old enough to be on his own. The kid has actually been on his own since he was in his early teens. It sounds like he came and went as he pleased...got to gamble and drink while underage, etc. His mother was no longer responsible for him and he should have been on his own...holding down a job...and growing into a man. I would imagine that Joran did exactly what he wanted to whether mom liked it or not when he was living in the home. She probably was relieved when he went off on his own.

    Even though she may have been glad that he moved on she is still holding up for him...making excuses for him...and denying a murder when her son has admitted he did it. If she is smart she will stay in Aruba and take care of her youngest son. Joran will be just fine on his own.
    He threw a homeless man off a bridge, he probably killed Natalie H. and now he has killed Stephany. What Anita Van der Sloot said was from the first interview she gave to a Dutch paper. She said he had left Holland so as not to be confined in a mental ward there. She had tried to get him mental help and he refused.
    ...we'll raise up our glasses against evil forces...whiskey for my men, beer for my horses!

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