IMO....IF he did kill her in the first half hour they went to his room, I was puzzled by the length of time he spent there before he left...and I am thinking...after he killed her...instead of fleeing right then...he HAD to create a scene..(otherwise he was the last one seen with her and would be the first one suspected)..So he took off her shoes and pants...went for coffee, appeared "locked out" ..got a "witness" to unlock his door..BUT the "witness" staff..did NOT enter the room...DARN!!! well, so much for that plan, he thinks..So he cleans up as much as he can, while perhaps thinking of another plan..nothing else come to mind so he flees..telling the staff on the way out not to disturb his guest...buying time that the staff would not enter his room and she is ..sorry..decomposing..all the while.......all in my own opinion
In the Caylee Daily report the picture shows her under the window ....anyone notice that?
Spot of blood on his red striped shirt (that he was wearing when he left for good) had already been confirmed as Steph's blood.
It looks like either her hair is covering her face....or...she is on her stomach..doesn't look like a fetal position..
Looks like alot of blood on spread....and the floor too.
If decomp happened quickly......remember it's winter there....they must have some heat on in the room......and I bet it didn't smell like 'pizza' either....
[quote=Kamille;5333548]Just some observations from looking at the photos from the crime scene. We have been speculating about the jeans and whether they were pulled off in a struggle during an attempted sexual assault or removed either by JVS or SF without a struggle. Looking at the photo of the jeans on the Crimesider site, it does appear as though there are several blood splatters on them even though there is only one arrow. Not sure where we got the information that there was no blood on her jeans. One thing I did notice, however, is that the jeans have a two button waist and a zipper fly closure. From the photos, it does not appear as though there was any tearing in that area or anywhere else on the jeans. If there was a struggle in which the jeans were “torn” off, I think there would be some damage to this area. They appear to have been removed normally by undoing both the buttons and the zipper fly.
Ok, Kamille, excellent post. I will try and answer what I think happened:
1/I don't think there was a attempt rape at all.
2/The jeans were removed post violence either by SF (but honestly I don't think so). I think he may have slammed her hard and told her he would not hurt her if she removed her shoes and pants first. That is why there isn't much blood splatter, because the shoes/pants were nearby but not on SF at that time.
3/Right, jeans were removed normally, I agree.
During JVS’s statement, I believe the question was posed to him about why he removed her pants and shoes. He replied that he didn’t know. Does this mean that LE has determined that the pants and shoes were removed after the murder? Did they come to that conclusion based on the fact that there is blood on both of them?
1/JVDS isn't going to admit that he was threatening SF for her money and pin numbers so his reply is "I don't know."
It has been widely reported that JVS “cleaned up the scene” with the bedclothes. How then does it appear as though SF is laying on them? If he used the sheets to clean up the floor as I believe he also has stated, then how did they get underneath SF? I can see what looks like white bedding in the pile with his clothes at the foot of the bed but could that be one or two pillows? We don’t see the bedspread at all in the photos so perhaps it was found on the other side of the bed? Why are there no photos of that side of the room or the bedspread?
1/ I believe JVDS used one sheet to "stage" the body so when she was dead he placed her on the sheet. Maybe the bottom sheet and bedspread were used for the "clean up". Sheet was probably used underneath because at that time JVDS was contemplating putting SF in luggage.
He would have had to move her to place her on those sheets if he had actually used them to clean the floor. Is it possible that she did get as far as the tiled hallway in her bid to escape and that the crime actually happened there? Tiled walls and floors…lots of potential for damage there. He could not have cleaned blood from a carpeted floor very well with sheets...or anything really… so did he use them to clean up the tiled hallway? Did the brown bottle of liquid, which appears to have been found in the bathroom next to a coffee cup with the lid off, figure into this possible cleaning of tile floors and walls? Was he drinking that coffee while he was cleaning? Did he buy that brown bottle when he went out for coffee? Did he move SF to the location where she was found? And if he didn’t, why would he lie about using the sheets to clean the floor? Could this be why we are not seeing the video of when he went for coffee. Was there something shown in that hallway on the tape when he opened the door to go out for the coffee? Blood…Stephany?
1/ I don't think so.
2/I believe the theory that the brown bottle was to dye JVDS hair, or help in cleanup.
3/ I think SF was initially put in a chair bound by bungie cord and shoe laces. Her body was probably pushed over from the chair position, that would explain why SF was found with her knees up or someone said in the fetal position. And the chair was simply removed.
3/We have a video of JVDS leaving the lobby area for coffee. Not sure why we haven't seen him leave the room initially.
When looking at the position her body was in when found, if he did remove the shoes and jeans when she was lying there on the floor beside the bed where she was found, would her legs have fallen into that unusual legs drawn up fetal position when the rest of her body was on it’s back with one arm outstretched and the other beside her body?
1/ Yes. but after he dropped her from the chair. If she was dead in the chair say 2-3 hours, that is long enough for rigor mortis to set in.
Just wondering if you are looking at the correct crime scene photos of Stephany. The one's on the Caylee Daily site are a re enactment from the National Enquirer and are not Stephany. It's been a bit of a confusion. I think the real ones are posted in the media thread.
Her legs were up and to the side, up against the wall bent in a somewhat fetal position. There was no bedspread near her.
As for the fetal position.....the pictures show her to be on her back stretched out....no fetal position in the *********** photos at all.
I am interested in hearing what the other players
at the table with them,(while playing)have to
say. Did anyone overhear what he told her to
make her get up and leave with him?
Was he romantic (ugh) was it business? I hope
the pit boss,dealer or someone overheard their
conversation that night.That will tell alot about
his motives and end alot of speculation
If this has been covered,please forgive me and
please share this info with me.