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Thread: FL - Davie, WhtFem 554UFFL, 21-35, In Canal-Possible C. Wilder victim, Feb'84

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    FL - Davie, WhtFem 554UFFL, 21-35, In Canal-Possible C. Wilder victim, Feb'84

    Hi
    Please help me find out more information on this Jane Doe found.she was previously ruled out as my sister.I am trying to rule her back in.Too many people have emailed me about this as a possible match to my sister.I am trying to find out EVERTHING about this Jane Doe.Newspaper articles,ect..Is there any more information on her.If she is not my sister maybe we can find out who she is?.I never knew there were so many unidentified Jane and John Does out there.someone must be looking for them.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/554uffl.html

    suzanne
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 03-18-2013 at 11:25 PM.

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    I really wish they'd divulge more information!!! (any moles?any scars? how were the teeth? what color/kind of shorts???natural blonde or dyed?blood type?)The more the better.. and considering what information they did divulge, your sister matches the discription so it looks like they should be more than willing to find out!!! GRRRR makes me mad..

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    Hi suzanne. How exactly was Tammy ruled out concerning this Princess Doe? Was it through DNA or dentals?

    Lion

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    Hi
    they ruled her out with Dentals.Tammy's dental has changed and been changed and mistaken over the years from fillings to no fillings.There are NO dental xrays on my sister and these dental are as different as night and day for me to trust either is her dental.I am trying to push now to use only my DNA to check for this Jane Doe as a possible match and all Jane Does as a possible match.I have tried to contact all the police and no one has answered me.It is weird.Am I being avoided?why?I just need now information on this Jane Doe?dental/eye color?had she born children?dyed blond hair?scars?broken bones?pierced ears?ect....ect.....ect....A post mortem picture will tell me.I am very curious if this Jane doe just gave birth or had an abortion recently before she died.newspaper articles anything.

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    timetravel is offline care giver of all stray and feral cats who come my way.
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    did you contact the sun senitel? there was a link to it in the doe file but i had trouble accessing it...perhaps if you contact them directly?

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    Suzanne,

    I looked up this case on the FLUID database---the Florida Unidentified site. Here's the link:

    http://www.fluiddb.com/php/details10.php?case=51

    Not a lot of info, but does list the height and eye color as 5'6" (approx.) with hazel eyes. There's also a case manager and a number to call.

    Hope this helps,
    FLMom

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    Hi
    Thankyou.I do not think she is on her case any more.I think another lady is.she has not told me anything.I tried to email people to get more information on her.They have not emailed me back.

    suzanne

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    Suzanne,

    Thanks for replying so quick---I was going to edit my post to ask a question but you'd already answered!

    Did Tammy have any tattoos, scars or birthmarks? I kinda doubted the tattoos since she was an actress, but I haven't seen the question asked before.

    FLMom

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    Hi
    I guess there is always the possibility she left for awhile or really was afraid of someone.You never know she could have went wild and got tatoo's and everything pierced.But I usually don't look for that.I don't rule anything out anymore.I just don't know.I wish there was more on this Jane Doe or any of the Jane Does out there for that matter so I can tell better.I usually see all different kind of sketches of the same Jane Doe on different ones.That look nothing like each other or the probably the Jane Doe.Sadly a post mortem picture clearly shows what they look like and it usually looks nothing like the sketch.I need to see a post mortem picture of this Jane Doe.They should do a clay sculpture of this Jane Doe.sometimes they use thier actual teeth so you can see what the Jane Does teeth look like.This Jane Doe can really fit just about anybody.There is not much to go on.

    suzanne

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  14. #10
    timetravel is offline care giver of all stray and feral cats who come my way.
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    i guess after so much time, the sketches seems to all blend together - at least ones of certain types - its a shame some sights don't want to put up postmortem photos - although they can be quite graphic and disturbing they are a bigger help in seeing what the person looked like - this is only true if there is enough to photograph, of course - if not, a sculpture - something with some dimension - is second best.....

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    Hi
    No one has answered me back yet about anything.A better discription or anything at all.It is very strange.

    suzanne

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    Quote Originally Posted by suzannec4444 View Post
    I need to see a post mortem picture of this Jane Doe.
    If she was found floating in a canal and had been there for a while she probably wouldn't be recognizable.

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    Hi
    I agree.Someone finally emailed me.He seems very helpful.There is really not much to go on.Maybe we can still figure out who she is.Apparantly there is a gap between this Jane Does front teeth.Maybe that will help identify who this Jane Doe is.

    suzanne

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    Hi
    This Jane Doe does not appear to be my sister.But she is very close.I wonder if this Jane Doe is a Christopher Bernard Wilder(a serial killer in 1984.)He killed models and women in beauty pagents.This girl was found in febuary 18 1984.Then Rosario Gonzales was missing Febuary 26 1984 from Miami area.Then Beth Kenyon was missing in Coral Gables Florida in march 5th 1984.They are all about a week apart.Both of the women missing were missing from around Miami Florida and into beauty pagents and modeling. Miss Florida pagent?who were the beauty contestants that year and up to a few years before 1984?or what modeling agencies were in and around miami or Florida. These two women were never found.This Jane Doe had bleach blond curly hair.It appears shorter in the picture than in a sketch.she appears to have a gap in her teeth.cosmetic work?I don't know.Her eyes were brown or hazel.there are conlicting stories on her eye color.She is pretty and cute.I do think she is a wilder victim.Please help me find out who she is.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/554uffl.html

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/383dffl.html

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1215dffl.html




    suzanne

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    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...,2173471.story
    I did a search on the Sun Sentinel. You could post commnts on that. Good Luck.

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    Hi
    Ok,thankyou.This Jane Does case is not being closed.They are having a freash look at who she can be.It's sad.someone must care for her and still wonders what became of her.

    suzanne

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  26. #17
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    FL - Davie - WhtFem in Canal - Possible CWilder Victim - Feb. 1984

    The Doe Network:
    Case File 554UFFL
    http://doenetwork.org/cases/554uffl.html

    NamUS Case UP Case 1258 https://identifyus.org/cases/1258



    Reconstructions of Victim; 3 Right: by Barbara A. Martin Bailey

    Unidentified White Female

    * The victim was discovered on February 18, 1984 in Davie, Broward County, Florida
    * Estimated Date of Death: 2 days prior
    * Victim of Homicide

    Vital Statistics

    * Estimated age: 21-35 years old
    * Approximate Height and Weight: 5'4"; 120 lbs.
    * Distinguishing Characteristics: Blonde hair; hazel eyes.
    * Clothing: Shorts

    Case History
    The victim was located floating in a canal in the 2600 block of Southwest 130th Avenue. She had been strangled.

    It's possible that this woman was a victim of suspected serial killer Christopher Wilder. Wilder lived in Boynton Beach and was linked to a string of disappearances through Florida from the late 1970s to early 1980s.

    Investigators
    If you have any information about this case please contact:
    Broward County Medical Examiner's Office
    954-327-6500
    --
    Davie Police Department
    954-327-6500
    You may remain anonymous when submitting information.

    Agency Case Number:
    1984-0253


    NCIC Number:
    U-570018944
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-08-2012 at 08:08 PM.

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    Looking for PM's to this UID, I came across Tammy Leppert, and said to myself that they had to have looked at her as a possible for this UID. Both she and the UID were suspected of being victims of Christopher Wilder.

    Tammy Lynn Leppert
    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...ert_tammy.html


    But this seems to be a perfect match. Her age is slightly under the estimate, but everything else is spot-on. Same color hair, same color eyes, the height is right.

    And the resemblance is amazing - The chin, jawline, browline, bridge of the nose, tip of the nose, eye-spacing - even the hairline looks the same.

    I went through the Tammy Leppert thread in the Missing But Not Forgotten forum, and this UID is mentioned several times throughout the thread, but all I can see is that her sister (WS member Ms Suzanne) heard that she had been ruled out based on the UID having a gap between her front teeth.

    Obviously from the photos, Tammy doesn't have a gap between her teeth. But it doesn't say anything about a gap between the UID's teeth (or for that matter, anything about the teeth) either in DoeNet or NamUs. And Tammy is not listed as a rule-out in NamUs (nor is anyone else).

    At the bottom of Tammy's Charley Narrative, it says:

    "The missing persons organization Child Protection Education of America states that Leppert had no cavities or fillings at the time of her disappearance; however, this is unproven. Her dental records have been lost.
    Maybe they did a full dental comparison before the records were lost, but it looks to me like this was ruled out on dentals based only on a visual comparison of tooth spacing between her photos and the UID's dental records.

    BTW, this is not the only young UID female with (allegedly) gapped teeth found floating in a canal in Davie FL (See link below).

    http://doenetwork.org/cases/295uffl.html

    When they did their quick and easy rule-out, I hope they compared her to the right UID!
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-08-2012 at 08:09 PM.

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  30. #19
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    Carl,

    I have made the same comparison and still have these cases in my "match" file.... but OF COURSE I didn't submit them, as I am certain local LE has already thoroughly compared the two and discounted the match. right?

    Yet, it's probably better to find out for certain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    Looking for PM's to this UID, I came across Tammy Leppert, and said to myself that they had to have looked at her as a possible for this UID. Both she and the UID were suspected of being victims of Christopher Wilder.

    Tammy Lynn Leppert
    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...ert_tammy.html


    But this seems to be a perfect match. Her age is slightly under the estimate, but everything else is spot-on. Same color hair, same color eyes, the height is right.

    And the resemblance is amazing - The chin, jawline, browline, bridge of the nose, tip of the nose, eye-spacing - even the hairline looks the same.

    I went through the Tammy Leppert thread in the Missing But Not Forgotten forum, and this UID is mentioned several times throughout the thread, but all I can see is that her sister (WS member Ms Suzanne) heard that she had been ruled out based on the UID having a gap between her front teeth.

    Obviously from the photos, Tammy doesn't have a gap between her teeth. But it doesn't say anything about a gap between the UID's teeth (or for that matter, anything about the teeth) either in DoeNet or NamUs. And Tammy is not listed as a rule-out in NamUs (nor is anyone else).

    At the bottom of Tammy's Charley Narrative, it says:



    Maybe they did a full dental comparison before the records were lost, but it looks to me like this was ruled out on dentals based only on a visual comparison of tooth spacing between her photos and the UID's dental records.

    BTW, this is not the only young UID female with (allegedly) gapped teeth found floating in a canal in Davie FL (See link below).

    http://doenetwork.org/cases/295uffl.html

    When they did their quick and easy rule-out, I hope they compared her to the right UID!
    All I have to say is...WOW.

    This had better be rechecked. Mistakes have been made before.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-08-2012 at 08:09 PM.
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

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  33. #21
    WOW! That was exactly what I said when I saw these two side by side. Then I scrolled up and looked at all of the sketches. While this one screams "match", what are we to do with the two drawings on the left?
    One portrays a long nose, large eyes and mouth and squared chin. The other has a very narrow nose, small mouth and deep set eyes. It is the structure and placement that are important in a reconstruction, so how is it we have the two on the left so different. It cannot be merely an artist interpretation, there has to be a reason for the core of the construction to have these characteristics. For this reason, I do not think it is the same person, based on this one sketch.

  34. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    Looking for PM's to this UID, I came across Tammy Leppert, and said to myself that they had to have looked at her as a possible for this UID. Both she and the UID were suspected of being victims of Christopher Wilder.

    Tammy Lynn Leppert
    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...ert_tammy.html


    But this seems to be a perfect match. Her age is slightly under the estimate, but everything else is spot-on. Same color hair, same color eyes, the height is right.

    And the resemblance is amazing - The chin, jawline, browline, bridge of the nose, tip of the nose, eye-spacing - even the hairline looks the same.

    I went through the Tammy Leppert thread in the Missing But Not Forgotten forum, and this UID is mentioned several times throughout the thread, but all I can see is that her sister (WS member Ms Suzanne) heard that she had been ruled out based on the UID having a gap between her front teeth.

    Obviously from the photos, Tammy doesn't have a gap between her teeth. But it doesn't say anything about a gap between the UID's teeth (or for that matter, anything about the teeth) either in DoeNet or NamUs. And Tammy is not listed as a rule-out in NamUs (nor is anyone else).

    At the bottom of Tammy's Charley Narrative, it says:



    Maybe they did a full dental comparison before the records were lost, but it looks to me like this was ruled out on dentals based only on a visual comparison of tooth spacing between her photos and the UID's dental records.

    BTW, this is not the only young UID female with (allegedly) gapped teeth found floating in a canal in Davie FL (See link below).

    http://doenetwork.org/cases/295uffl.html

    When they did their quick and easy rule-out, I hope they compared her to the right UID!
    Carl,

    Are you going to contact LE? I think they need to take another look. And the drawings of the UID all look different, they don't even portray the same person at all!
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-08-2012 at 08:10 PM.

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  36. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    ... While this one screams "match", what are we to do with the two drawings on the left?

    One portrays a long nose, large eyes and mouth and squared chin. The other has a very narrow nose, small mouth and deep set eyes. It is the structure and placement that are important in a reconstruction, so how is it we have the two on the left so different. It cannot be merely an artist interpretation, there has to be a reason for the core of the construction to have these characteristics.

    I disagree with you that it "cannot be merely an artist interpretation". There is the possibility that all three are inaccurate, but all three cannot be equally accurate. If any are accurate, one or two must be more accurate than the third.

    Looking at the one on the very left, I would say that it doesn't appear that the artist spent a lot of time on it. Her nose is much smaller than the others, but that was not more than a few lines, and doesn't resemble a real nose. No effort was made to depict contour, but compared to the image that I used in the side-by-side, the chin and jawline, and placement of eyes, nose, and mouth are identical, even if the overall look is quite different.

    As for the second one from the left, it seems to be the outlier. Three different artists looked at the same subject. Two depicted a very pointy chin, and this one depicted a broader, less contoured jaw and chin outline. Also this artist depicted her with wider-set eyes than the other two, and a larger nose than the other two.

    When you have three artists working independently, and two come up with similar outline and placement, and the third comes up differently, I would discount the third as the outlier.

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  38. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaddylex View Post
    Carl,

    Are you going to contact LE? I think they need to take another look. And the drawings of the UID all look different, they don't even portray the same person at all!
    I could, but I will have to think through how I should approach this before calling them. Several months ago I tried to submit a possible (Phylis Eleanor Berry) for the other Davie FL canal girl , and got pretty short-shrift from Broward County. I then took it to TX DPS, and they contacted Broward County and they said it was a CODIS rule-out by default.

    Fair enough, but I got the impression that Broward County is not a tipster-friendly jurisdiction. They could have kicked me back a quick e-mail saying it was a DNA rule-out without me having to do the roundabout via TX DPS.

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  40. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    I disagree with you that it "cannot be merely an artist interpretation". There is the possibility that all three are inaccurate, but all three cannot be equally accurate. If any are accurate, one or two must be more accurate than the third.
    Of course all are interpretations. I was not clear in that a true forensic artist does not render an 'interpretation' outside of some basis in fact. So I would have to consider each of the drawings, just as I would have to consider each of the missing persons photos, which by the way do not look exact. No photo does unless it is a negative.

    As for the second one from the left, it seems to be the outlier. Three different artists looked at the same subject. Two depicted a very pointy chin, and this one depicted a broader, less contoured jaw and chin outline. Also this artist depicted her with wider-set eyes than the other two, and a larger nose than the other two.
    This is what I find interesting; the difference yet seemingly more detailed sketch. I find it more interesting that NamUS used it as their UP photo for display. I think they would have a reason. I just wish I knew who that artist was. What I find more puzzling is that if the UID had a space between her teeth, that would be the major identifier, yet none show the teeth.

    It may sound weird to some, but if I had a possible match this close, I would not take the word of a family member. I have one now who is in denial a former unidentified is indeed her family member. Sometimes denial is easier to live with for some. It is certainly worth a check especially since the UID is said to have a gap between her teeth.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 02-22-2012 at 01:41 PM.

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