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  1. #1
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    Vatican issues sex abuse guidelines after crisis

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_vatica...ljYW5pc3N1ZQ--

    Vatican issues sex abuse guidelines after crisis


    "The Vatican issued a revised set of in-house rules Thursday to respond to clerical sex abuse, targeting priests who molest the mentally disabled as well as children and priests who use child pornography, but making few substantive changes to existing practice.

    The new rules make no mention of the need for bishops to report clerical sex abuse to police, provide no canonical sanctions for bishops who cover up for abusers and do not include any "one-strike and you're out" policy for pedophile priests as demanded by some victims.

    As a result, they failed to satisfy victims' advocates, who said the revised rules amounted to little more than "administrative housekeeping"...."


    more at link

  2. #2
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    Why does this not surprise me the least little bit? Just reading the above started a slow burn in my stomach. They nauseate me.

  3. #3
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    Canon Law deals with the internal governance of the Church. It is very technical, and sometimes hard to interpret. It is a separate law unto itself spanning a global Church. As quoted in the article, "If civil law requires you report, you must obey civil law," Monsignor Charles Scicluna told reporters. But "it's not for canonical legislation to get itself involved with civil law."

    All individuals within the Church, whether lay or clergy or Bishop, are required to follow local law, including mandatory reporter laws. In my parish, there are signs posted on every bulletin board stating all careers which qualify as mandatory reporters in our state, which includes clergy, and teachers. As Canon Law articulates the crimes and systems of dealing with them against the Church and the Sacraments, it is beyond the scope of Canon Law to address civil penalties. A case can be tried jointly through civil and Canon courts.

    It does become tricky if an abuse situation comes to light only within the Sacrament of confession. The bond of the Sacrament is one of the highest held within the Church, but it is the priest hearing the confession who is bound, not the person making the confession. Victims need to know that they need to report crimes to civil authority, and our education systems in our parish make this clear, as I have heard from parishes around the country likewise have put into place very clear guidelines for reporting abuse.

    As the Church sees it, the primary purpose of her ministry is the care of each soul. In an abuse situation, she cares not only for the victims' souls, but the perpetrator as well. The Church does not see with eyes only tied to this current world, but also towards eternity, and she is not willing that any should be easily lost. So when establishing guidelines, she is not simply addressing how to punish evil, but also how to redeem the lost. I understand how caring for the soul of the perpetrator as well as the victim seems to raise the Church's esteem of the individual above what they deserve, but it is in keeping with the Gospel, to which we believe that God himself sacrificed his Son for we who do not deserve.

    The Church will not satisfy the world, because the world looks for vengeance while the Church is seeking the redemption of the sinners, like Jesus seeking his lost sheep. The Church has always been clear that forgiveness of the sin does not remove the necessity of temporal (present, earthly) punishment. This is what the doctrine of Purgatory is all about, that justice missed upon Earth will be dealt upon death. She doesn't seek to avert justice, not at all. It is for civil authorities to enact it.

    That doesn't mean, of course, that every individual in the hierarchy of the Church has acted with these ideals and not with other, selfish, motives. It is to their eternal shame and a scandal to all of us.

    To some extent, in the last several decades, civil authorities, psychological experts, as well as Church authority have all be on a learning curve with how to deal with SOs. Civil law has hardly yet figured it out, and still have statutes of limitations which can prevent justice and puny sentences which endanger the innocent. The Church likewise is extending statutes of limitations and putting guidelines into place with regard to her own purpose of dealing with the souls involved. She treads infuriatingly slowly, to be sure, but not many other organizations have lasted 2000 years, either.

    To sum up my overly long post, civil justice is properly carried through civil authorities, Canon Law is concerned with the protection of souls. Both can work simultaneously, and are not at odds with one another.

  4. #4
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    For them to include the ordination of women in the same guidelines as sex abuse, just completely enrages me. How dare they equate the two! Anybody who wants to defend the Catholics can waste their breath all they want. I'm not buying. It is a sick and rotten organization that protects and supports child abusers. Nuff said.

  5. #5
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    No, from what I can tell, it's a general update of the code of Canon Law. They're not equating the two. These things always come out in a general format including all current updates.

    You may feel your indignation is righteous, but remember there are millions of innocent and good people in the Catholic Church.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mom2six View Post
    Canon Law deals with the internal governance of the Church. It is very technical, and sometimes hard to interpret. It is a separate law unto itself spanning a global Church. As quoted in the article, "If civil law requires you report, you must obey civil law," Monsignor Charles Scicluna told reporters. But "it's not for canonical legislation to get itself involved with civil law."

    All individuals within the Church, whether lay or clergy or Bishop, are required to follow local law, including mandatory reporter laws. In my parish, there are signs posted on every bulletin board stating all careers which qualify as mandatory reporters in our state, which includes clergy, and teachers. As Canon Law articulates the crimes and systems of dealing with them against the Church and the Sacraments, it is beyond the scope of Canon Law to address civil penalties. A case can be tried jointly through civil and Canon courts.

    It does become tricky if an abuse situation comes to light only within the Sacrament of confession. The bond of the Sacrament is one of the highest held within the Church, but it is the priest hearing the confession who is bound, not the person making the confession. Victims need to know that they need to report crimes to civil authority, and our education systems in our parish make this clear, as I have heard from parishes around the country likewise have put into place very clear guidelines for reporting abuse.

    As the Church sees it, the primary purpose of her ministry is the care of each soul. In an abuse situation, she cares not only for the victims' souls, but the perpetrator as well. The Church does not see with eyes only tied to this current world, but also towards eternity, and she is not willing that any should be easily lost. So when establishing guidelines, she is not simply addressing how to punish evil, but also how to redeem the lost. I understand how caring for the soul of the perpetrator as well as the victim seems to raise the Church's esteem of the individual above what they deserve, but it is in keeping with the Gospel, to which we believe that God himself sacrificed his Son for we who do not deserve.

    The Church will not satisfy the world, because the world looks for vengeance while the Church is seeking the redemption of the sinners, like Jesus seeking his lost sheep. The Church has always been clear that forgiveness of the sin does not remove the necessity of temporal (present, earthly) punishment. This is what the doctrine of Purgatory is all about, that justice missed upon Earth will be dealt upon death. She doesn't seek to avert justice, not at all. It is for civil authorities to enact it.

    That doesn't mean, of course, that every individual in the hierarchy of the Church has acted with these ideals and not with other, selfish, motives. It is to their eternal shame and a scandal to all of us.

    To some extent, in the last several decades, civil authorities, psychological experts, as well as Church authority have all be on a learning curve with how to deal with SOs. Civil law has hardly yet figured it out, and still have statutes of limitations which can prevent justice and puny sentences which endanger the innocent. The Church likewise is extending statutes of limitations and putting guidelines into place with regard to her own purpose of dealing with the souls involved. She treads infuriatingly slowly, to be sure, but not many other organizations have lasted 2000 years, either.

    To sum up my overly long post, civil justice is properly carried through civil authorities, Canon Law is concerned with the protection of souls. Both can work simultaneously, and are not at odds with one another.
    I appreciate this terrific post!
    I do not intend to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mom2six View Post
    No, from what I can tell, it's a general update of the code of Canon Law. They're not equating the two. These things always come out in a general format including all current updates.

    You may feel your indignation is righteous, but remember there are millions of innocent and good people in the Catholic Church.
    PS - welcome to Websleuths!
    I do not intend to tiptoe through life only to arrive safely at death!

  8. #8
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    Thanks for the welcome!

  9. #9
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    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100716/...ljYW5yZXZpcw--

    Odd, but the link I posted this morning was updated at 9:38 pm ET tonight and changed to some degree but I don't see any notation of such. That really ticks me off as I don't see any sign of the original article so we can make comparisons.

    Another article of note:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/un_un_vat...VuOnZhdGljYW5j

    UN: Vatican child rights report 13 years overdue

    "GENEVA – The Vatican has failed to send the United Nations a report on child rights that is now almost 13 years overdue, the head of a U.N. panel has told The Associated Press.

    Like all countries that have signed the 1989 Convention on the Rights of the Child, the Vatican is required to submit regular reports on its efforts to safeguard child rights.
    But the U.N. Committee on the Rights of the Child, despite sending repeated reminders, has received no explanation from the Holy See for why it missed a 1997 deadline, according to the committee's chairwoman Yanghee Lee..."

    more at link

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mom2six View Post
    No, from what I can tell, it's a general update of the code of Canon Law. They're not equating the two. These things always come out in a general format including all current updates.

    You may feel your indignation is righteous, but remember there are millions of innocent and good people in the Catholic Church.
    Yeah, I know, I used to be one before I discovered the church was full of worms.


  11. #11
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    I'm sorry you've lost your faith. I don't place my faith in the people who run the Church, but that the Holy Spirit indwells the Church and sustains it even through these attacks of the devil that have caused men to fall into the vilest sins imaginable. This is not the first scandal, unless the world ends soon, it won't be the last. Recall that all the disciples abandoned Christ at the cross, betrayed to death by a man of his inner circle, save John who endured. But the Church remains to mediate God's Grace to the world through the Sacraments, despite the sins of men in the hierarchy.

    “A church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints.” - Dear Abby

  12. #12
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    First of all, welcome Mom2six!! I appreciate your thoughtful and informative posts even though I don't fully agree with you. I am pleased that the Church is serving your spiritual needs. Even though I've started several of these threads concerning the Catholic church, I am not Catholic. I was raised a good Baptist girl. My husband, however, was raised within the Catholic church.

    Concerning faith; one does not need a church building nor a church family. All one needs, IMO, is a heart which is filled with the Spirit. I've been unable to leave my house, and now bed, for years and my faith has only grown stronger. I haven't required any interceders between me and God. I speak to Him throughout my day. He is simply always with me. If I am still, I will know Him and what He wishes me to do. When I stand before Him, I will have no interceder and I don't wish to have one now.

    Organizations of every type frighten me--whether they are churches, schools, scouting, clubs. Wherever people gather to do "good", many will be drawn to do "evil" under the cloak of good. I think the most appalling thing of all is the lumbering slowness of the Catholic Church's response. How many children have suffered while Bishops and Cardinals sat at meetings and summits drafting regulations that are hundreds of years overdue?

    WS is a fabulous place to learn and broaden our knowledge of many viewpoints and to respectfully debate. I look forward to reading more of your posts.

    Once again, welcome.

  13. #13
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    Hi Mom2six - Yes, I have indeed lost my faith, in large part due to the Catholic church, but also many other things. I have seen far too much evil done in the name of God. And then the Catholic church just continually adds insult to injury. I realize that this is a subject that I am rabid about and I cannot speak pleasantly about something which abhors my very soul. I still have so much rage toward them and they continually make it worse by their self-serving, CYA behavior. I have yet to feel they even remotely care about the damage they have done. What they care about is their control and their funds and any initiatives they have managed to undertake is solely for those purposes. I can't stomach it. I'm tired of hearing stupid worthless lip service from the pope. He is just as mixed up in this as everyone else. It's something that I will just never get over. The betrayal is complete.

  14. #14
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    Oct 2009
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    Missizzy,
    I can appreciate your position. I was raised Baptist as well, and was converted through my own understanding of the Scriptures to the Catholic Church some years ago, but I have many close relatives who believe as you, and I respect that. I am not here to argue, convert, or proselytize, just trying to give another side to what seems to a faithful member of the Church to be misleading press reports. The media often doesn't understand religion--any religion--very well. Internal documents like these are misrepresented by the media to serve purposes that they are not meant to, and then the Church is beaten with that stick. The fact that the reports and incidences of abuse are nearly universally decades old, and not currently occurring shows me that the Church is cleaning house and measures that have been implemented are working. I do not fear for my children at Church or school any more than I fear for them in the yard or at the library, i.e. I have reasonable awareness of safety and supervision. Actually, in my area we have had a significant number of credible reports of molestation and sexual assaults within the neighboring local public school systems in just the last few weeks. I was glad to hear that my oldest sons' teacher took the time to discuss a bus driver in a neighboring city and his methods for attacking victims. These things are so prolific everywhere. We need to be so cautious.

    Thank you for the welcome. I have appreciated your posts I have read in other threads! There is no doubt where your heart is.

  15. #15
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    Belinda,
    I am sorry for your pain over this. I hope that you will find some way to regain your faith in the future, however that may look. If I may, it might help to remember that Christ himself understands how it feels to be betrayed, and is at least as mournful as you are about what has happened in His name.

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