746 users online (109 members and 637 guests)  


The Killing Season - Websleuths

Websleuths News


Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 33
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Ecosse
    Posts
    353

    FL - Miami Beach, WhtMale 1388UMFL, 46-70, offshore, laryngectomy, Apr'95

    Ok, this is one I ran across a few months ago, and it has been bugging me. Tried to find it on here, but can't see it, so here goes:

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1388umfl.html

    It's bugging me because I noticed some things in the description that lead me to believe that he might have been a native of the UK or NI or a commonwealth country perhaps:

    1. His underwear came from Marks & Spencer, which is a major department-type store over here & they sell their own brand of clothing, food, etc.

    2. The date inscribed on his wedding band is done so in the UK/European fashion: dd/mm/year, in this case 26th December 1958, which is Boxing Day in the UK. The 'A.C.' I am thinking could be his initials or perhaps his first initial and the brides, for example.

    3. The other ring: 'gold colored ring, with a black stone that has tiny red flecks, with an engraved dragon with 3 crosses, on a single dagger/sword' could be heraldic. I found a larger picture of it and it looks like a dragon or a griffin with a cross fitcheé .('Cross Fitchee - Sharpened at the lower part; pointed like a dagger. The arms of the See of Canterbury represent four crosses patée fitchée.') So it could be from his family or some sort of order or even the village or borough or town from which he came. I'll try to find the larger photo and post it.

    I am wondering if the LE is aware of any of these things or if it is worth informing them?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 03-26-2013 at 06:21 PM.
    'Curiosity is, in great and generous minds, the first passion and the last.' Dr Samuel Johnson

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Ecosse
    Posts
    353
    oh yes...I did look on the UK missing persons website & didn't see anyone that rang any bells, but please feel free:

    www.missingpeople.org.uk

    I do pop on there from time to time to see if anyone has been added, though it's not the best site to navigate.
    'Curiosity is, in great and generous minds, the first passion and the last.' Dr Samuel Johnson

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    540
    He is not totally without resemblance to Victor Howard Gray

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/785dmca.html

    I have frequently seen "Marks & Spencer "St. Michael" branded items in thrift shops here in Australia but I do not know whether that is because of donations by tourists or because the stuff is actually sold here. We don't have Marks and Spencer stores, but it is the sort of brand that a department store like David Jones or the now defunct John Martins might have sought to associate themselves with. We also write our dates with the day before the month.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    425
    At the time this man was found, Marks & Spencer ("M&S") also operated in Canada, France and Germany - although not to a great extent in the latter two countries.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    16,111
    Did you ever find that larger photo of the ring? I can't make it out in that tiny picture but the description is ringing a very faint bell.
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    western PA, USA
    Posts
    847
    Larger images of the rings on his NamUs profile:

    https://identifyus.org/medias/full/3982

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    16,111
    Quote Originally Posted by tatertot View Post
    Larger images of the rings on his NamUs profile:

    https://identifyus.org/medias/full/3982
    I sent it to a friend of mine who's a medieval researcher. This looks to me like a Church of England ring of some sort, but what do I know? Will let you know when I hear back from her.
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Ecosse
    Posts
    353
    Quote Originally Posted by reasypeasy View Post
    He is not totally without resemblance to Victor Howard Gray

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/785dmca.html

    I have frequently seen "Marks & Spencer "St. Michael" branded items in thrift shops here in Australia but I do not know whether that is because of donations by tourists or because the stuff is actually sold here. We don't have Marks and Spencer stores, but it is the sort of brand that a department store like David Jones or the now defunct John Martins might have sought to associate themselves with. We also write our dates with the day before the month.
    that makes sense--loads of Brits re-locate or have family members there. Thanks!
    'Curiosity is, in great and generous minds, the first passion and the last.' Dr Samuel Johnson

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Ecosse
    Posts
    353
    and sorry for not posting the larger pic sooner...brain is distracted lately :s

    thank you, tatertot & carbuff & everyone...

    glad to know about M&S being in other places--I had no idea! I was also thinking, lots of Brits go to Florida, NY & California for holidays, etc. But it's just a hunch...

    hmmm a C of E ring...that's a good possibility. thanks, again
    'Curiosity is, in great and generous minds, the first passion and the last.' Dr Samuel Johnson

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    16,111
    Laryngectomy with the open stoma indicates cancer surgery, I would think. Does anybody know a doctor who could translate that stuff for us?
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Ecosse
    Posts
    353
    The ring is driving me nuts :s I think it is most likely heraldry, ecclesiastical or otherwise...I'm sorting of thinking perhaps like St Margaret & the Dragon (Scotland!) or St Michael and dragon or St George (England!) and dragon...something like that:

    http://www.civicheraldry.co.uk/ecclesiastical.html

    carbuff, I can email a relative who is a pathologist & ask your question.
    'Curiosity is, in great and generous minds, the first passion and the last.' Dr Samuel Johnson

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Ecosse
    Posts
    353
    I decided to look it up, carbuff...I never know when he's going to answer & he gets annoyed because people are always asking him medical questions :P
    I have found that it's usually done as a cancer treatment, but not always:

    http://apps.uwhealth.org/health/hie/1/007398.htm
    'Curiosity is, in great and generous minds, the first passion and the last.' Dr Samuel Johnson

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    16,111
    Quote Originally Posted by kitbits View Post
    The ring is driving me nuts :s I think it is most likely heraldry, ecclesiastical or otherwise...I'm sorting of thinking perhaps like St Margaret & the Dragon (Scotland!) or St Michael and dragon or St George (England!) and dragon...something like that:

    http://www.civicheraldry.co.uk/ecclesiastical.html

    carbuff, I can email a relative who is a pathologist & ask your question.
    My academic friend didn't recognize the design. She thought it was rather humorous if the dragon (often a Satan representation) is holding the cross, but if it's run through, it's probably a St. George/Michael/Margaret reference. The cross fitchee is a very common defender-of-the-faith motif in heraldry.

    She thought it looked more modern than ancient. In any case, it would seem to be the kind of thing somebody with an academic bent would be attracted to.
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    12,541
    Just came upon this thread. I was living in Miami Beach when he was found. Not that I remember it, cuz unfortunately floating bodies are not rare occurrences in Miami

    Anyways, here are a few random thoughts:

    --my ex is Bahamian (well, he was born in Miami, but moved to Nassau when he was 6 months old and was raised there). The Bahamas was an English colony and they still follow the English in regards to clothing, dates and spelling of words.

    --The UID seems to have the same coloring as my ex's Bahamian step-father and his family.

    --Also, my ex's Bahamian step-father (well, really father, cuz he adopted him) is part Chinese. I don't know if this is common for Bahamians, but this might explain the dragon ring.

    --Plus, the Bahamas is quite close to Miami and the UID was found between MB and there.

    Again, these are just my random thoughts.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Ecosse
    Posts
    353
    Quote Originally Posted by carbuff View Post
    My academic friend didn't recognize the design. She thought it was rather humorous if the dragon (often a Satan representation) is holding the cross, but if it's run through, it's probably a St. George/Michael/Margaret reference. The cross fitchee is a very common defender-of-the-faith motif in heraldry.

    She thought it looked more modern than ancient. In any case, it would seem to be the kind of thing somebody with an academic bent would be attracted to.
    Yes, I was thinking it had to do with a 'defender of the faith' theme. I don't think it's holding the cross, but being run through. But then I'm not entirely conviced it is a dragon--I think that it could either be a dragon or a griffin. He could have been a mason, as well. My masonic friends are drawn to this type of thing (think Knights Templar & all that).

    Thanks, carbuff, for this & for asking your friend
    'Curiosity is, in great and generous minds, the first passion and the last.' Dr Samuel Johnson

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-29-2016, 04:01 PM
  2. FL FL - Pinellas Co., WhtMale 315UMFL, 30-60, 8 miles offshore, Oct'88
    By CarlK90245 in forum The Unidentified
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 06-11-2015, 10:50 AM
  3. Replies: 103
    Last Post: 02-17-2015, 01:56 AM
  4. FL FL - Miami, WhtMale 742UMFL, 21-35, in canal, Apr'04
    By CarlK90245 in forum The Unidentified
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 02-03-2014, 10:06 PM
  5. Identified! FL - Ballast Key, WhtMale body found offshore, Sep'12 - Erik Jenkinson
    By cmlegend99 in forum Identified!
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-19-2012, 09:23 PM

Tags for this Thread