Conflict between Kaine/Desiree statements re: red flags/crying

Conflict between Kaine/Desiree statements re: red flags/crying

I see a conflict between Kaine's statements and Desiree's statements regarding 'red flags' seen prior to Kyron's disappearance.

Desiree said she saw Kyron upset, even sobbing, wanting to go live with her and Tony.

Then along comes Kaine and says oh no no, the public didn't see Desiree's full statment - he and she agree that Kyron was happy as a clam, and just upset at times about going from one house to the other. Further, Kaine doesn't answer the reporter's question about what the red flags were that Desiree saw.

I don't think either of them is lying - let me say that right off. I'm not sure what's up with this, except that I see a definite conflict, and I'm not one to go looking for stuff like that.

I wonder if maybe it's that Kaine realized that Desiree's statements were a negative reflection on him too - that Kyron didn't want to live with him and Terri - and cried at having to go back, and he wanted to try to set that record straight?


Here are the links:

Desiree:

"Kyron became increasingly unhappy about not spending time with me. He wanted to come live with [me and his stepdad]," Young says. "Several times he would just break down and sob because he wanted to stay."

(This article has the video)

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20401700,00.html

She described "red flags," such as Kyron's increasing unhappiness with returning to his father and stepmother's Portland home after visiting his mother.

"He wanted to come live with us," she said. "Several times he would just break down and sob because he wanted to stay."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_hormans_mother_desiree_y_1.html


Kaine:

Q: What were the "red flags" or warning signs that Desiree Young thought she may have missed prior to Kyron's disappearance? Desiree told the Today Show that Kyron seemed increasingly unhappy when he left their home after his visits with the Youngs. Kaine, did you see any warning signs and if so what?

A: Desiree's quote was not taken in its entirety. As a younger boy, Kyron can express distress when going from one household to the other if he has been having a great time and is looking forward to upcoming activities with that particular household. There was no abnormal amount of this happening after he left Desiree's household or when he left ours to go visit Desiree. He has been unhappy several times when he has had to leave our house to go visit Desiree, nothing Desiree or I would deem out of the ordinary.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kaine_horman_describes_how_ter.html

I'll try to find links:

Kaine--Terri was a good person until she got pregnant.

Desiree--I have never trusted her for a moment.

(I have paraphrased but believe these to be close to the actual statements made. Links forthcoming....admittedly horrible with those things.)

I think it goes back to DY can't stand TH and has painted her to be The Step Monster!

I am glad I am not alone in noticing a disconnect between statements made by these two parents. I have been hesitant to point them out or post my thoughts because it is not at all my intention to cast aspersions on either of these folks. But there are some very real issues with some of their statements as pertains to Terri, Kyron and their relationship with one another IMO.

My first concern was the letter from mom to Kyron in which she apologizes for not being there to protect Kyron from a danger she does not specifiy.

If she was simply struggling with maternal survivors guilt for not warding off this terrible event from her baby - okay, I can see it.

If she was, as she now claims, already feeling suspicious of Terri's story and timeline, I would really like to know what led her to be suspicious, exactly.

It feels to me like the more mom talks the more Terri and Kyron's relationship being not a happy/loving one seems to be portrayed. That was not the "party line" at the beginning. This makes me curious to whether all these "suspicions" about Terri were genuinely felt prior to Kyron's disappearance or simply suspicions now held thanks to the benefit of hindsight.

I'm not trying to list all conflicts (if any others exist), just this specific thing I found curious, because my perception is that they have a very different perception on why Kyron was crying when it was time to go home to Kaine and Terri.

BeanE said:

Conflict between Kaine/Desiree statements re: red flags/crying

I see a conflict between Kaine's statements and Desiree's statements regarding 'red flags' seen prior to Kyron's disappearance.

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Yep, I saw it, too, and based on the exact words you bolded. Some tension between those statements, for sure. I wonder if KH is being defensive, because I don't see how the "context" could change DY's choice of the word increasingly -- which tells me that she perceived it as a problem that maybe started in the manner KH describes, but was getting worse and had not been dismissed by her as typical and resolved.

Either DY touched a nerve and KH doesn't want to get into the details of why Kyron was increasingly upset, or DY overstated the matter because of what she now believes to be true. They could both be telling the truth -- at the time it seemed normal, but now that DY thinks about it, it was increasing. KH may still see it as normal, colored by the fact that he doesn't want to think Kyron was really increasingly upset over something going on in his house on his watch. IDK As with everything in this case, it seems, this may be a big deal, or it may be nothing.

And, fwiw, they were together at the wall after that interview I think, and they looked like they were okay with each other.

I was a child that was shipped from mom's house to dad's house and I when I had to go home if we had a really good time you would have thought someone killed my puppy. Shoot at his age I would cry at leaving my best friends house. But thats me, now my cousin would just wave and say bye!! All kids are different, but I don't think he was crying BECAUSE he had to go home, but BECAUSE he was leaving mom's house

this is just my thoughts

I think it's natural, to some extent because they come from different perspectives. Everybody blames themselves to some degree after something bad has happened but it is easier if they don't have to go all out and take the responsibility of everything.

So, if Kyron was unhappy at Terri and Kaine's home and wanted to live with his mother and stepfather it possibly might be caused by something Terri and Kaine did or didn't do and if Kaine admits Kyron was unhappy he might have to face some uncomfortable truths about what he was like as a parent or if it was Terri making Kyron unhappy why he didn't make some decisions that might have kept Kyron happier or prevented his disappearance. It was Kaine's home that Kyron lived in so he might have been expected to know if he was unhappy or why.

Desiree may face some guilt as well for not demanding custody more forcefully and think if only she had done this and that Kyron might not be missing now but I think her attitude to Kyron possibly being unhappy at Kaine's might be different because it was not her home he supposedly was unhappy at, whatever caused his unhappiness was not directly her fault except for agreeing to the present custody arrangements and she gets the comfort of believing he was happier with her.

So, Kaine doesn't want to say Kyron was unhappy at Kaine's home. Desiree has less of a problem saying Kyron was unhappy at Kaine's home although she waited until an interview where Kaine wasn't there to say so. Hardly surprising, IMO.

(Disclaimer: Whether or not Kyron was really unhappy I don't know, and it is possible for children from blended families to be unhappy or cry at times of separation for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of parenting and emotional support they receive in either home. It's about the perceptions for the parents right now since Kyron isn't here and we can't ask him.)

Now media will most likely ask DY for a clarification and than we will know if they are at odds on the statement or if it is as Kaine says, that the media reported it wrong.

For some reason, I think DY saw more red flags and appreciated them for what they were than the "blindsided" Kaine. (and I am not so sure he was completely blindsided... perhaps just not willing to acknowledge those red flags...)

moo

I don't think any of their statements are at odds. I think the differences relate to their different frame of references.

When I first read of Kyron's crying when it was time to leave DY's house, my first reaction was that all 7yos cry when they leave their mom or grandma or any place they've enjoyed if it's going to be a while before coming back, I should think - and be perfectly fine again by the end of the drive home.

On the other hand, though, I certainly didn't dismiss it there - it could be something a lot more important, or possibly not. Without more honest, clear discussion of it, we can't tell, IMO.

I don't know if the parents can really clarify this matter right now. I am not saying they are lying, exactly, but I do believe their own memories are serving their emotional needs right now. DY needs to remember that Kyron cried when he left her, though it might give her guilt, because that memory confirms her need to know she was a good mother, and that Kyron loved her and had a good time at her home. Likewise, KH needs to not remember that part b/c he needs to know he provided a good home for Kyron. It's not lies, exactly - just subjective, selective memory, with the truth some place in between, likely.

We need to know more about Kyron's homelife, really, but with KH's quick denial that anything was wrong and that the quote is out of context, and that Kyron was "happy," etc, tells me we're not likely to get it right now, sadly.

This is exactly why I don't take the parents' pressers as gospel, even though I sympathize with their plight - I have to take it all with a grain of salt until I hear more from LE. The family is all too close to the case to give clear, unvarnished information, in my estimation. It is not a surprize to me that their testimonies conflict.

MOO.

I don't think any of their statements are at odds. I think the differences relate to their different frame of references.

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I agree with this.

DY is seeing things through the lens of a mother who just found out her child is missing and the stepmother might be implicated. Of course she'd look back and try to find red flags, things she could have done differently, things she now sees in a different light. In that light, almost anything can now be seen as portentous: was his appetite different, did he use a black crayon more, how was he sleeping, did he cry more... as a mother I'd probably put thousands of hours of thought into every tiny thing - was there a message in it, could I have seen it earlier and saved him.

And probably there were already conflicts between TH &DY from their relationships with Kaine - having another woman live with your ex husband and mother your child has to be very hard. I might not have trusted TH in DY's place, even if there were no specific reason I could name. Or maybe I wouldn't have trusted her if I felt she'd acted dishonorably in beginning her relationship with my former husband.

Kaine is seeing things more pragmatically. He knows kids cry if they're attached in one house and moved to another temporarily. He might not have taken it as personally if Kyron cried when he had to leave his mother's house, or Kaine's house. His red flags had to be seen through his lens of marriage, love, partnership and previous trust with TH. I'm not surprised he'd see those flags later than DY, or put the pieces together later, or differently than she did.

:shakehead:

Kyron's bio-parents are unified...against Terri...and for Kyron's sake.

Not so sure they ever were, nor will ever be unified as to what is really best for Kyron. Desiree sees things Kaine does not. If Kaine misunderstood the serious nature of Terri's red flags, did he also misunderstand Kyrons?

If Kaine & Terri talked of divorce and Kaine believed it was worked through in a positive manner and Terri took a hit out on him - how blind would he be to a child's subtle signals?

Hoping we actually get to see out how unified Kaine & Desiree really are - when Kyron returns.

I think Kaine got defensive. Simple as that. He has absolutely no right to say how Kyron reacted to leaving Desiree's house because he was not there when Kyron left. It would have been 2 hours or more later by the time he saw Kyron.

I also think that Desiree not trusting Terri for a minute and Kaine thinking she was a good person is not a conflict at all. My husband's ex wife was a "good person" but she was also a lying cheating _____. Yet, I wouldn't trust her for a minute.

These are not conflicts in my mind, just the differences in the way people say and see things... as well as a bit of human defensiveness.

Despite their sincere efforts to portray a happy blended family, I doubt that everything is/was sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows among the two sets of parents. For Desiree and Kaine, there are likely lingering hurts from their divorce, but for the most part, I feel that they have a mutual respect for one another and that they care deeply for Kyron. Locating their son is foremost in their minds, and they have put forth a united front that is truly admirable after some of the cases I've seen where families are at odds with one another.

I will say once again that what we're seeing is a lot of smoke and mirrors, and I believe that things are not as they seem. I've got a lot of different "theories" spinning around in my head, but I'm not ready to share my thoughts at this juncture: I don't want the people in white coats showing up on my porch jmo

It seems to me that if Kaine and Desiree always saw everything eye to eye they would likely still be married. They're not. So...

I think they've done a pretty good job putting their differences aside and trying to be united but at the end of the day they're still a divorced couple who probably have had some kind of history and right now they're blaming Terri for Kyron's disappearance and I bet Desiree thinks that if it wasn't for Kaine Terri would never have been in Kyron's life.

BetteDavisEyes said:

Despite their sincere efforts to portray a happy blended family, I doubt that everything is/was sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows among the two sets of parents. For Desiree and Kaine, there are likely lingering hurts from their divorce, but for the most part, I feel that they have a mutual respect for one another and that they care deeply for Kyron. Locating their son is foremost in their minds, and they have put forth a united front that is truly admirable after some of the cases I've seen where families are at odds with one another.

I will say once again that what we're seeing is a lot of smoke and mirrors, and I believe that things are not as they seem. I've got a lot of different "theories" spinning around in my head, but I'm not ready to share my thoughts at this juncture: I don't want the people in white coats showing up on my porch jmo

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LOL -
No worries BDE. Those men in the white coats are still right here on my sidewalk.
I keep baking brownies for them. I think they are starting to like me. :crazy:

I think that if Kyron were to be returned safely, there would be a big custody battle for Kyron.

DY statements were serving notice that something in the home was bothering Kyron and KH statements were meant to refute her claim.

JMO

SoCalSleuth said:

I don't think any of their statements are at odds. I think the differences relate to their different frame of references.

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Exactly! They are two different people who view things in similarly but not exactly the same way.

Men and Women often times perceive things differently. They are in agreement with the CONCLUSION/RESULT but employ different measures to reach that result.

There are no cookie cutter people on earth. Each of our minds work in a different way, we verbalize differently and perceive other people differently. Environment and life experiences I believe play a big part in that.

Emma Peel said:

LOL -
No worries BDE. Those men in the white coats are still right here on my sidewalk.
I keep baking brownies for them. I think they are starting to like me. :crazy:

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I usually "test-drive" my :crazy: ideas on DH, and if he doesn't laugh too hard or tell me that I've lost my marbles, I figure that I'll stay out of straitjacket for a while longer

For now, I'm sticking with my smoke and mirrors claim in the Kyron Horman case, and let's just leave it at that