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  1. #1
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    2008.07.25 "I wish I'd been a better dad...", said George to Casey

    Near the beginning of this jail visit to KC in 2008 http://www.wftv.com/video/18206653/, George says he wishes he'd been a better dad. Was he sincere in taking some responsibility? Should he have? How much of what happened with KC is nurture and how much is nature?

    Do you think if he had been a "better dad" it would have made any difference (especially when considering that LA seems to function adequately)? Based on what you know about George so far do you think he was a poor parent? In what ways do you think George himself believes he should have been a better parent? If you think he was a poor parent, in what ways do you think he was (e.g. anger management, poor job history, etc.) and how should he have improved?


    If there is a similar thread, could someone point me to it? I did several types of searches and could not find a thread directly related only to George's parenting skills.
    Last edited by Francine; 08-04-2010 at 02:57 PM. Reason: update to the url

  2. #2
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    I do believe he made some mistakes -- we're all human. Like the on line gambling that put the family into debt. He admitted that in one of the interviews I believe. And letting Cindy make life decisions for him - like quitting his job as an officer to work in a car lot (don't hold me to that...it's late).

    What I see (IMHO) is he was an enable. CA got away with everything! The only time I remember him confronting her was with the gas cans, and filing the police report when the shed was broken into. But he could have been more aware when it came to her job and the nanny.

    Just my thoughts.

    Mel

  3. #3
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    I think he is basically a pretty weak guy, and probably an ineffective parent, also selfish and focused on himself. George is a guy in my opinion who is yet to reach maturity, he is like a teenager refusing to grow up, refusing to become a responsible adult, and allowing himself to be bossed around and then acting out passive aggressively in order to feel like a 'man' again. So no, not a great dad, and pretty poor example.

    However on the nature vs nurture thing, I think Casey was born with psychopathic tendencies and I absolutely don't think that upbringing can really help. I also believe that society in general plays a large role in what kind of form the psychopathy will take, so their social class may have played a large roll also, which was to some extent dictated by the parents ability to prosper etc...

    IMO psychopathy is partly just bad genetic luck, here's some backup from a description of Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD)

    http://www.outofthefog.net/Disorders/ASPD.html

    'Because of their destructive behaviors, people with ASPD can be viewed judgmentally by others and with little sympathy. Their families - and in particular their parents can come under criticism and are often blamed for poor upbringing or a lack of morality. Such simplistic criticism is often the result of an ignorance of the mental disorder ASPD.'

    ...and here's an article which supports the idea that a dysfunctional family environment can have an impact

    http://psychcentral.com/lib/2006/wha...lity-disorder/

    'Social and home environment also contributes to the development of antisocial behavior. Parents of troubled children frequently show a high level of antisocial behavior themselves. In one large study, the parents of delinquent boys were more often alcoholic or criminal, and their homes were frequently disrupted by divorce, separation or the absence of a parent.'

    These two ideas seem to contradict each other...which is confusing really...here's a doco I found fascinating on the subject; http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/psychopath/
    Last edited by Mrs G Norris; 08-04-2010 at 06:28 AM.

  4. #4
    essies's Avatar
    essies is offline "We're all just walking each other home." Ram Dass
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    Though NG wasn't referring to GA it fits here!
    "If you allow yourself to be manipulated-you're not manipulated"!!
    (I can't believe I'm using NG as a source of wisdom!)
    His giving in to CA and not being "a better father" was an excuse for being lazy and not asserting himself!! IMO
    I still wonder how he sleeps at night and looks at himself in the mirror!

    "It's time to tell the story of a little girl named Caylee" Linda Drane Burdick
    The future has many names: for the fearful it's the unknown, for the reckless it's the adventure, for the pessimists it's the unattainable. For the brave, it is opportunity.

  5. #5
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    You know what tho....Casey might have been a bit of a psychological lost cause by the time she had become an adult, and I absolutely believe that George and Cindy failed miserably in their inability to deal with the truth of Casey, and therefore take steps to protect Caylee. That in my opinion is the GRAND FAILURE. Their denial meant that they left their precious grandchild under the supervision of a person who couldn't be trusted on any level. Those creepy videos of Caylee where she is being silently filmed paint an extremely disturbing aspect of Caylee's short life. They must have known that things weren't 'right'.

    Somewhere along the line they decided they just couldn't 'do' anything about Casey, but they could have done something to minimise the damage, which they didn't do, or if they tried, they tried in the wrong way. Cindy as a nurse, and George as ex LE should known how to pull resources from outside the family to help them. Perhaps their pride stopped them, perhaps it was just that they underestimated the danger. But they knew, they knew about the theft, they knew about the pathological lying, and they knew Casey was sociopathic.
    Last edited by Mrs G Norris; 08-04-2010 at 07:04 AM.

  6. #6
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    We have heard this lament or something similar by every single person that has had to endure some sort of tragedy, its human nature. Heck, I am going thru a major illness and I am doing the 'if only...maybe I wouldn't have to go thru this'. Hindsight is always and will always be 20/20.

    The situation with George is that he had little if any control over his life after he hooked up with Cindy. If he could turn back time, the best thing he could have done is asked someone else out and let some other schmuck date CA.

  7. #7
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    My very best wishes to you, Openmyeyes, I hope you make a full recovery.

  8. #8
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    I too listened to these recordings again yesterday. It has always been my belief his statement reflects that he is simply expressing some guilt, perhaps to make KC feel comfortable enough to show some too.
    It's clear from the way they are handling their conversation with KC and suggesting all kinds of routes for her to "reach-out" to different people (aka confess) they know she is guilty.
    Last edited by Person of Interest; 08-04-2010 at 08:29 AM. Reason: cuz I kant spell.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs G Norris View Post
    You know what tho....Casey might have been a bit of a psychological lost cause by the time she had become an adult, and I absolutely believe that George and Cindy failed miserably in their inability to deal with the truth of Casey, and therefore take steps to protect Caylee. That in my opinion is the GRAND FAILURE. Their denial meant that they left their precious grandchild under the supervision of a person who couldn't be trusted on any level. Those creepy videos of Caylee where she is being silently filmed paint an extremely disturbing aspect of Caylee's short life. They must have known that things weren't 'right'.

    Somewhere along the line they decided they just couldn't 'do' anything about Casey, but they could have done something to minimise the damage, which they didn't do, or if they tried, they tried in the wrong way. Cindy as a nurse, and George as ex LE should known how to pull resources from outside the family to help them. Perhaps their pride stopped them, perhaps it was just that they underestimated the danger. But they knew, they knew about the theft, they knew about the pathological lying, and they knew Casey was sociopathic.
    You've said it better than I could and I absolutely agree.

    Looking at what ICA has done for all of her young years - I think she was far beyond "parental controls" at any age.

    What percentage of juvenile delinquents who have horrendous backgrounds - who are truly abused and horribly neglected, turn out to be killers. Somehow I think ICA with her wasp middle class background doesn't make that statistic grade.

  10. #10
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    I feel that in saying this, George was indirectly putting some blame for something on Casey.... or at least recognizing that it was her doing.. but that she was not completely responsible.

    I think that is more than what Cindy would ever say.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Person of Interest View Post
    I too listened to these recordings again yesterday. It has always been my belief his statement reflects that he is simply expressing some guilt, perhaps to make KC feel comfortable enough to show some too.
    It's clear from the way they are handling their conversation with KC and suggesting all kinds of routes for her to "reach-out" to different people (aka confess) they know she is guilty.
    ITA...I too think GA was playing or trying to play on ICA's emotions, trying desperately to get her to confess and tell what she did to/with Caylee. I feel once he got the pontiac with that awful smell eminating, he knew it was possibly ICA, Caylee or both who were dead! Once ICA was found and was tight lipped about Caylee, he probably feared the worst.

    I feel once he told ICA how he should have been a better father/grandfather, her response was to say, he was a good dad and the best grandfather Caylee would want, paraphrased. In all likelyhood, he was aware of ICA's capabilities for he knew she pushed the limits...he knew she was jealous of the relationship Caylee had for CA and GA (but GA wasn't the one in competiton for Caylee's love, IMO), knew it bothered ICA enough when Caylee was handed over to grandma when she was first born. I do believe he was most honest with LE giving the true character of ICA where CA sugar coated it all. His fears came true on December 11, 2008....and reinforced by December 19, 2008 when Dr. G positiviely ID's the remains as Caylee...such a tragic situation but one they overlooked, once too often. IMO, it was there for years and they choose to turn a blind eye and deaf ear and Caylee paid the ultimate price...It also seems this is the way the A's deal with things, Ignore it, don't speak of it and it will eventually go away...JMHO


    Justice for Caylee

  12. #12
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    I think that George meant if he had followed his instincts about Casey he could have possibly prevented this tragedy. He could have kept her out of trouble by calling her out and having her face consequences early on. Cindy actually kept him from doing that and I think he is sorry he let her do that. This is just my take on it....

  13. #13
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    KenoshaKid is offline All the darkness in the world cannot put out a single candle
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    Methinks those words will come back to bite him in the arse.

  14. #14
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    I too wish he had been a better father, but I think his fate was sealed back with his choice of a wife.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenoshaKid View Post
    Methinks those words will come back to bite him in the arse.
    Yes, Baez will have those words framed and displayed in court...

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