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Thread: What Is the Defense Strategy?

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    My gut instinct is that the SA is on to them and know darn well they are trying to disguise a mental health defense as something else and once they get the reports, we will see litigation move forward to allow the state to have her examined.

    Perry, who was dubbed the "Velvet Hammer" by tweeters,
    went on to say that he believed there was sufficient evidence to sustain a
    first-degree murder conviction
    .

    "Justice has been served in the sense that the jury has spoken but justice will
    finally be served one day by the Judge of
    judges," Perry said during the morning show.
    "And she's going to live, deal with this for
    the rest of her life."

    RIP Caylee Marie

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    This is better than a movie. Wish it was just a movie.

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    STATE v. MIZELL

    Dr. Krop would testify that Mizell has been diagnosed with PTSD, and he would explain what PTSD is and how PTSD affects an individual's perceptions. . .
    The State is incorrect, however, in its characterization of PTSD as diminished capacity evidence in this case.   We view the PTSD evidence offered in this case as state-of-mind evidence, quite analogous to battered spouse syndrome (BSS) testimony that has in fact been approved many times.   BSS testimony has been admitted to support a claim of self-defense.   See State v. Hickson, 630 So.2d 172, 173 (Fla.1993) (holding that “an expert can generally describe [BSS] and the characteristics of a person suffering from the syndrome and can express an opinion in response to hypothetical questions predicated on facts in evidence․”).  PTSD evidence, as offered in this case, is not inadmissible as diminished capacity evidence. . .
    In this case, the trial court laid down five very specific conditions on the admissibility of PTSD evidence.   These conditions were designed to avoid the problems that have arisen in other cases.   Specifically, the court's order will prevent a trial scenario in which a psychologist may skillfully present the defendant's testimony by the backdoor, negating the State's right to cross-examination.

    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-distri...l/1188746.html

    Obviously, this would not be his first go around with this defense!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExpectingUnicorns View Post
    STATE v. MIZELL

    Dr. Krop would testify that Mizell has been diagnosed with PTSD, and he would explain what PTSD is and how PTSD affects an individual's perceptions. . .
    The State is incorrect, however, in its characterization of PTSD as diminished capacity evidence in this case.   We view the PTSD evidence offered in this case as state-of-mind evidence, quite analogous to battered spouse syndrome (BSS) testimony that has in fact been approved many times.   BSS testimony has been admitted to support a claim of self-defense.   See State v. Hickson, 630 So.2d 172, 173 (Fla.1993) (holding that “an expert can generally describe [BSS] and the characteristics of a person suffering from the syndrome and can express an opinion in response to hypothetical questions predicated on facts in evidence․”).  PTSD evidence, as offered in this case, is not inadmissible as diminished capacity evidence. . .
    In this case, the trial court laid down five very specific conditions on the admissibility of PTSD evidence.   These conditions were designed to avoid the problems that have arisen in other cases.   Specifically, the court's order will prevent a trial scenario in which a psychologist may skillfully present the defendant's testimony by the backdoor, negating the State's right to cross-examination.

    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-distri...l/1188746.html

    Obviously, this would not be his first go around with this defense!!
    Aaaaand there it is. Good find!! You have revealed the DT's secret.

    Perry, who was dubbed the "Velvet Hammer" by tweeters,
    went on to say that he believed there was sufficient evidence to sustain a
    first-degree murder conviction
    .

    "Justice has been served in the sense that the jury has spoken but justice will
    finally be served one day by the Judge of
    judges," Perry said during the morning show.
    "And she's going to live, deal with this for
    the rest of her life."

    RIP Caylee Marie

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    If they area going to say ICA had a dissociative disorder which caused her to think she was an Event Planner, and now a lawyer, how are they going to explain Universal? maybe that's one of the reasons they wanted it out. She admitted she lied. She said OK you got me I don't work here. If she had snapped out of a dissociative state, she would (at least according to "Sybill" which I read years ago) have no idea where she was and who these people were. She would have a large memory gap going to the last time she had been "not an event planner."

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    I totally believe the SA already knows what's up. Like JA said.. 'if it's what we think it is, then we will definitely want our expert to examine her, but once we get the reports we can go from there' (or something to that effect). I think they already are 5 steps ahead on it. Once they saw Krops name on the jail visit log, they knew.

    Perry, who was dubbed the "Velvet Hammer" by tweeters,
    went on to say that he believed there was sufficient evidence to sustain a
    first-degree murder conviction
    .

    "Justice has been served in the sense that the jury has spoken but justice will
    finally be served one day by the Judge of
    judges," Perry said during the morning show.
    "And she's going to live, deal with this for
    the rest of her life."

    RIP Caylee Marie

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExpectingUnicorns View Post
    STATE v. MIZELL

    Dr. Krop would testify that Mizell has been diagnosed with PTSD, and he would explain what PTSD is and how PTSD affects an individual's perceptions. . .
    The State is incorrect, however, in its characterization of PTSD as diminished capacity evidence in this case.   We view the PTSD evidence offered in this case as state-of-mind evidence, quite analogous to battered spouse syndrome (BSS) testimony that has in fact been approved many times.   BSS testimony has been admitted to support a claim of self-defense.   See State v. Hickson, 630 So.2d 172, 173 (Fla.1993) (holding that “an expert can generally describe [BSS] and the characteristics of a person suffering from the syndrome and can express an opinion in response to hypothetical questions predicated on facts in evidence․”).  PTSD evidence, as offered in this case, is not inadmissible as diminished capacity evidence. . .
    In this case, the trial court laid down five very specific conditions on the admissibility of PTSD evidence.   These conditions were designed to avoid the problems that have arisen in other cases.   Specifically, the court's order will prevent a trial scenario in which a psychologist may skillfully present the defendant's testimony by the backdoor, negating the State's right to cross-examination.

    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-distri...l/1188746.html

    Obviously, this would not be his first go around with this defense!!

    Wow! Now to figure out just how and what the PTSD centers around. Rape resulting in Caylee (this theory, imo, scarily works), molestation/abuse by the Anthony family (iffy, imo), simply the accidental death of Caylee (also iffy, imo), other??

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    doesn't the mizel case state that the defendant has to take the stand,
    to introduce the problem. if so ,she has no chance, her real personality
    will come out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExpectingUnicorns View Post
    STATE v. MIZELL

    Dr. Krop would testify that Mizell has been diagnosed with PTSD, and he would explain what PTSD is and how PTSD affects an individual's perceptions. . .
    The State is incorrect, however, in its characterization of PTSD as diminished capacity evidence in this case.   We view the PTSD evidence offered in this case as state-of-mind evidence, quite analogous to battered spouse syndrome (BSS) testimony that has in fact been approved many times.   BSS testimony has been admitted to support a claim of self-defense.   See State v. Hickson, 630 So.2d 172, 173 (Fla.1993) (holding that “an expert can generally describe [BSS] and the characteristics of a person suffering from the syndrome and can express an opinion in response to hypothetical questions predicated on facts in evidence․”).  PTSD evidence, as offered in this case, is not inadmissible as diminished capacity evidence. . .
    In this case, the trial court laid down five very specific conditions on the admissibility of PTSD evidence.   These conditions were designed to avoid the problems that have arisen in other cases.   Specifically, the court's order will prevent a trial scenario in which a psychologist may skillfully present the defendant's testimony by the backdoor, negating the State's right to cross-examination.

    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-distri...l/1188746.html

    Obviously, this would not be his first go around with this defense!!
    bbm

    I have been wondering if the defense wasn't looking at a sort of "battered spouse syndrome" in that kc could argue:
    1) she's a victim of DV in the household (physical violence - choking incident)
    2) her entire life is controlled by her Mother (not spouse but still a significant other in kc's life) ie: financially, demanding kc give birth and raise Caylee, car, home, shelter, food, all of Caylee's belongings as well as KC's, ever aspect of kc's and caylee's life - as well as GA's. (Lee was able to escape once Caylee entered the picture).
    3) same cycle of violence probably reappears on this household . . . explosion, blame, promises & begging, honeymoon phase, anxiety and agression building . . (shampoo, rinse, repeat)

    This is all AF's stuff for guilt phase and mitigation after being found guilty of a crime. I don't think it can be used for diminished capacity - but who knows what JB etal try to pull off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pip View Post
    I totally believe the SA already knows what's up. Like JA said.. 'if it's what we think it is, then we will definitely want our expert to examine her, but once we get the reports we can go from there' (or something to that effect). I think they already are 5 steps ahead on it. Once they saw Krops name on the jail visit log, they knew.
    Yes, I agree with you here pip - I have been impressed and amazed by the SA - we have seen them anticipate every move the defense has made and then go on to block them on additional moves the defense could have made and didn't.

    As posters have said before about JA and LDB - this isn't their first rodeo!

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    I had wondered if the MD would be the vehicle to present the defendant's testimony. Guess so. Sneaky.

    Perry, who was dubbed the "Velvet Hammer" by tweeters,
    went on to say that he believed there was sufficient evidence to sustain a
    first-degree murder conviction
    .

    "Justice has been served in the sense that the jury has spoken but justice will
    finally be served one day by the Judge of
    judges," Perry said during the morning show.
    "And she's going to live, deal with this for
    the rest of her life."

    RIP Caylee Marie

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  23. #1312
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    Quote Originally Posted by logicalgirl View Post
    Yes, I agree with you here pip - I have been impressed and amazed by the SA - we have seen them anticipate every move the defense has made and then go on to block them on additional moves the defense could have made and didn't.

    As posters have said before about JA and LDB - this isn't their first rodeo!
    Woot Woot!

    Perry, who was dubbed the "Velvet Hammer" by tweeters,
    went on to say that he believed there was sufficient evidence to sustain a
    first-degree murder conviction
    .

    "Justice has been served in the sense that the jury has spoken but justice will
    finally be served one day by the Judge of
    judges," Perry said during the morning show.
    "And she's going to live, deal with this for
    the rest of her life."

    RIP Caylee Marie

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    Quote Originally Posted by wenwe4 View Post
    bbm

    I have been wondering if the defense wasn't looking at a sort of "battered spouse syndrome" in that kc could argue:
    1) she's a victim of DV in the household (physical violence - choking incident)
    2) her entire life is controlled by her Mother (not spouse but still a significant other in kc's life) ie: financially, demanding kc give birth and raise Caylee, car, home, shelter, food, all of Caylee's belongings as well as KC's, ever aspect of kc's and caylee's life - as well as GA's. (Lee was able to escape once Caylee entered the picture).
    3) same cycle of violence probably reappears on this household . . . explosion, blame, promises & begging, honeymoon phase, anxiety and agression building . . (shampoo, rinse, repeat)

    This is all AF's stuff for guilt phase and mitigation after being found guilty of a crime. I don't think it can be used for diminished capacity - but who knows what JB etal try to pull off.
    Right, wenwe4, but they are tweaking it just enough so that they won't be using it for diminished capacity. They will instead use it to explain her bizarre actions before and after the "accidental" death for which Casey was not responsible. It would go to explaining the "improper disposal," partying, stealing, etc, etc, etc. This is how, imo, they will be trying to "sneak it in the back door."
    The heart of the pure can see, but my eyes have never seen the unicorn . . .

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  27. #1314
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    Quote Originally Posted by BD1 View Post
    Wow! Now to figure out just how and what the PTSD centers around. Rape resulting in Caylee (this theory, imo, scarily works), molestation/abuse by the Anthony family (iffy, imo), simply the accidental death of Caylee (also iffy, imo), other??
    And whether or not the Anthony family are willing participants in this scheme.

    Perry, who was dubbed the "Velvet Hammer" by tweeters,
    went on to say that he believed there was sufficient evidence to sustain a
    first-degree murder conviction
    .

    "Justice has been served in the sense that the jury has spoken but justice will
    finally be served one day by the Judge of
    judges," Perry said during the morning show.
    "And she's going to live, deal with this for
    the rest of her life."

    RIP Caylee Marie

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    Quote Originally Posted by TUSK View Post
    doesn't the mizel case state that the defendant has to take the stand,
    to introduce the problem. if so ,she has no chance, her real personality
    will come out.
    Yes but I think that was because they were using it as a defense against the murder itself. I believe Casey's team will claim Casey did not cause Caylee's death but use the PTSD to explain why she acted so inappropriately surrounding her death. They will try to squeeze it in without her having to testify or take the stand herself since it is not being used as "diminished capacity."
    The heart of the pure can see, but my eyes have never seen the unicorn . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by pip View Post
    And whether or not the Anthony family are willing participants in this scheme.
    Or if they might not be the ones who are being "ambushed" here, and that's why Cindy had the tears in court on Thursday Perhaps she finally saw the freight train coming down the track . . .

    The defense really has no "defense." Perhaps the mental/diminished capacity, PTSD excuse is the only viable option they might have at this time. Especially one that AF could support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TallyHo View Post
    Her, ahem, PTSD surely didn't keep her off of the phone with TonE a large part of the day on the 16th!! She was so worried about sexual abuse that she spent hours making "small talk" with her boyfriend that day. Those pesky phone records will come back to bite her!!!
    One of the main side effects of 'ptsd' is sex and love addiction. The obsession with love and sex to the detriment of one's own daily life. So they may try and use Tony as a prop here as well. imo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fl Breeze View Post
    With the new mental health experts the defense is trying to get on the witness list for the guilt phase and ICA's bizzare courtroom behavior it has me looking into a new possiblity:

    A little far out, but consider that the defense might suggest that ICA was raped by someone she met and that Caylee was a product of that rape.

    This explains why she never admitted to who the father is, why the A family knows the father won't identify himself and why she denied she was pregnant as she had blocked the rape out of her mind due to ptsd and in her mind, could not be pregnant. When she did confirm she was pregnant she then assumed it was Jesse's.

    When Jesse was determined not to be the father, her mind created a happy, made up world of fake jobs, nanny's, etc. to cope.

    Then a completely accidental death of Caylee was so tramatic that it caused ICA to again have ptsd becoming even more dissociative and then block that event from her mind, explaining her happy, party self and her new belief that she did not die but a baby sitter had her.

    Then the trama of finding Caylee's remains has forced her to remember the rape and the tragic death, and this has finally put her over the edge and she now is completely dissociative and thinks she is one of the lawyers on a case.

    Wow, kind of makes Sybil look normal.
    I appreciate the perspective but duct taping Caylee's mouth around the time of death (maybe just before), bagging her up and throwing her in a local swamp is not dissociative behavior to me.

    I think it unlikely the jury will buy it after listening to the evidence, I presume they will use this in the mitigation portion of the trial but with KC and her families shenanigans fresh in their minds, I don't think they will believe it.

    To float this boat I think a medical expert is required to support this and that means the prosecution will have their own experts to debunk it.

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    Caylee being the product of a rape is possibly the best (sad) idea anyone came up with. This has my mind spinning uncontrollably.

    Casey is raped and becomes pregnant with Caylee. She denies and denies to herself that she is pregnant until the denial can no longer be hidden (her expanding stomach). Cindy confronts Casey about being pregnant and Casey tells her the whole story of the rape. Cindy doesn't believe Casey and even goes as far as blaming Casey for the rape (Casey's letters about Lee being the one to sexually abuse her... she always has a little bit of truth). Casey desperately wants nothing to do with Caylee and wants to give her up for adoption, but Cindy will have none of it and Casey is forced to have a child that she could never love... that when she looks at Caylee all she can see is the rape... the violence.... the rage... the hurt. When Casey murdered Caylee... she was actually murdering her rapist and that once she was rid of the harm that was done to her... she was free... hence the Beautiful Life and she never looked back.

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    This is what I believe to be the truth & expect the defense to use:

    Caylee died as a result of drowning in the pool
    while Casey was distracted with texting on her cell phone.

    The entire coverup is for Casey's rationalizing what had occured
    and her lack of parental responsibilty....ie Blame others.

    She could not look bad in her parents eyes.
    ...Past behavior predicts future behavior...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExpectingUnicorns View Post
    STATE v. MIZELL

    Dr. Krop would testify that Mizell has been diagnosed with PTSD, and he would explain what PTSD is and how PTSD affects an individual's perceptions. . .
    The State is incorrect, however, in its characterization of PTSD as diminished capacity evidence in this case.   We view the PTSD evidence offered in this case as state-of-mind evidence, quite analogous to battered spouse syndrome (BSS) testimony that has in fact been approved many times.   BSS testimony has been admitted to support a claim of self-defense.   See State v. Hickson, 630 So.2d 172, 173 (Fla.1993) (holding that “an expert can generally describe [BSS] and the characteristics of a person suffering from the syndrome and can express an opinion in response to hypothetical questions predicated on facts in evidence․”).  PTSD evidence, as offered in this case, is not inadmissible as diminished capacity evidence. . .
    In this case, the trial court laid down five very specific conditions on the admissibility of PTSD evidence.   These conditions were designed to avoid the problems that have arisen in other cases.   Specifically, the court's order will prevent a trial scenario in which a psychologist may skillfully present the defendant's testimony by the backdoor, negating the State's right to cross-examination.

    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-distri...l/1188746.html

    Obviously, this would not be his first go around with this defense!!
    Woot! Good find. Reading it a little I did find the one hugely problematic element of it for the defense.

    Defense counsel proposed to offer expert trial testimony from Dr. Harry Krop, a licensed clinical psychologist.   Dr. Krop would testify that Mizell has been diagnosed with PTSD, and he would explain what PTSD is and how PTSD affects an individual's perceptions.   The State objected to the prospect of such expert testimony and filed a motion in limine to prevent its admission.   The trial court denied the motion, outlining very specific conditions under which the defense would be able to offer the PTSD evidence:

    1.  The Defendant must lay a predicate by testifying,

    2.  Thereafter, Dr. Krop may testify as to the Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

    3. Dr. Krop may reveal the Defendant's alleged background but may not vouch for it.

    4. Dr. Krop may not refer to the Battered Wife's Syndrome.

    5. Dr. Krop may not offer an opinion as to the validity of self-defense in this case.

    So here we have an established test for using the "state of mind" PTSD approach that mandates that the defendent take the stand before any such evidence may be presented. Oh that should be fun!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
    Caylee being the product of a rape is possibly the best (sad) idea anyone came up with. This has my mind spinning uncontrollably.

    Casey is raped and becomes pregnant with Caylee. She denies and denies to herself that she is pregnant until the denial can no longer be hidden (her expanding stomach). Cindy confronts Casey about being pregnant and Casey tells her the whole story of the rape. Cindy doesn't believe Casey and even goes as far as blaming Casey for the rape (Casey's letters about Lee being the one to sexually abuse her... she always has a little bit of truth). Casey desperately wants nothing to do with Caylee and wants to give her up for adoption, but Cindy will have none of it and Casey is forced to have a child that she could never love... that when she looks at Caylee all she can see is the rape... the violence.... the rage... the hurt. When Casey murdered Caylee... she was actually murdering her rapist and that once she was rid of the harm that was done to her... she was free... hence the Beautiful Life and she never looked back.
    IMO....Casey knows exactly who the father is of Caylee.
    After seeing & talking to ------ at a party she broke down for an hour or so.

    Every time she looks at Caylee she sees his face...A rejecting one.
    ...Past behavior predicts future behavior...

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    She didn't want to look "bad" in her parents eyes? She financially raped Cindy blind for years! Sure, stealing isn't as bad as murder, but Casey could care less about her parents. She lied about so many things (graduation, work, etc...) and didn't care. She accused her parents of some awful things to her friends before any of this happened. Casey is hell bent on destroying her parents... she blames them for where she is at today. She is willing to torture them at this trial. So she doesn't care one bit how "bad" she appears to her parents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LolaMoon08 View Post
    Caylee being the product of a rape is possibly the best (sad) idea anyone came up with. This has my mind spinning uncontrollably.

    Casey is raped and becomes pregnant with Caylee. She denies and denies to herself that she is pregnant until the denial can no longer be hidden (her expanding stomach). Cindy confronts Casey about being pregnant and Casey tells her the whole story of the rape. Cindy doesn't believe Casey and even goes as far as blaming Casey for the rape (Casey's letters about Lee being the one to sexually abuse her... she always has a little bit of truth). Casey desperately wants nothing to do with Caylee and wants to give her up for adoption, but Cindy will have none of it and Casey is forced to have a child that she could never love... that when she looks at Caylee all she can see is the rape... the violence.... the rage... the hurt. When Casey murdered Caylee... she was actually murdering her rapist and that once she was rid of the harm that was done to her... she was free... hence the Beautiful Life and she never looked back.
    HOWEVER, there are witnesses from Casey's childhood which testify to Casey being a pathological liar all of her life. So they will not be able to target the rape as a source of the PTSD. They would have to say it stemmed from the Anthony's themselves and her childhood. I think that will be harder to do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatrice View Post
    IMO....Casey knows exactly who the father is of Caylee.
    After seeing & talking to ------ at a party she broke down for an hour or so.

    Every time she looks at Caylee she sees his face...A rejecting one.
    I know Casey knows. I am just trying to see what the defense can use in her defense. It's hard to defend a cold, calculated murderer... which I believe she is. I do not believe Caylee's death was an accident.

    Are you saying Brandon Snow is Caylee's father? I thought that she had a miscarriage and that was why she broke down at the party?

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