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  1. #256
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    For me, it would be easier to shoot a stranger. Unless...someone I knew was beating the crap out of me. Then, I would have to protect myself, by any means possible.


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  3. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by gliving View Post
    MOO, it seems like a crime of passion, but I'm seriously lacking in details.
    YES! We need more details. I only know what I've read here at WS. I have lots of questions.


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  5. #258
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    The Freemans were also upset over their sons( Shane ) death and considered it a murder by the sheriff’s department. IIRC they were also planning a lawsuit. So one theory could be that the sheriff's department decided to get rid of the Freemans. I mean cops didn't secure the crime scene and just assumed Danny had killed Kathy and went on the run with the girls, yet all of the vehicles were there. It took Lauria's family to find him the next day. Can we say incompetent LE. Geesh. They were ready to wash their hands of this case pretty quick.

    And then there is the nurse who taped that show about this case. She helped the Freeman's the night their son was shot. Her daughter was a friend of Ashley's. She was shot and killed at the hospital she worked at. The guy who shot her is gunned down and killed by LE. The show never did air ( probably scared senseless ) but I can't help but wonder if she knew something.

    An awful lot of killings connected to one family. Something isn't adding up. jmo
    Last edited by RubyRed; 08-30-2010 at 09:50 PM.


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  7. #259
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    Do we have anyone in OK social services that knows how long incident reports are kept in the county? I am interested in knowing if there were any reports taken involving Shane or Ashley (or the family) in the years prior to the murders, that are still on record anywhere.
    TIA....


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  9. #260
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    Bumping for Ashley and Lauria....

    I can't find any CPS or family services records earlier than 2002, but there is rumor (per their peers in school at the time) that there was a case opened the same year Shane was killed alleging sexual abuse of Ashley by her father, but was deemed inconclusive of evidence and so dropped.

    If this is true, how much merit do people think it holds in relation to this crime?


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  11. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oriah View Post
    Bumping for Ashley and Lauria....

    I can't find any CPS or family services records earlier than 2002, but there is rumor (per their peers in school at the time) that there was a case opened the same year Shane was killed alleging sexual abuse of Ashley by her father, but was deemed inconclusive of evidence and so dropped.

    If this is true, how much merit do people think it holds in relation to this crime?
    That could give a motive to Ashley for those that think the girls are involved.

    I think the girls met with foul play. Were taken to another location and assaulted then murdered. If the perp had no intention of sexually assaulting them the perp would have just killed them at the trailer. The perp was worried about getting caught so took off with them. moo


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  13. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by RubyRed View Post
    That could give a motive to Ashley for those that think the girls are involved.

    I think the girls met with foul play. Were taken to another location and assaulted then murdered. If the perp had no intention of sexually assaulting them the perp would have just killed them at the trailer. The perp was worried about getting caught so took off with them. moo
    I think so too and I don't think they were involved, but it would be good to know what was going on prior to their disappearance. Even if it's just where they might have been prior to them go missing.


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  15. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oriah View Post
    Bumping for Ashley and Lauria....

    I can't find any CPS or family services records earlier than 2002, but there is rumor (per their peers in school at the time) that there was a case opened the same year Shane was killed alleging sexual abuse of Ashley by her father, but was deemed inconclusive of evidence and so dropped.

    If this is true, how much merit do people think it holds in relation to this crime?
    It's yet another interesting twist, IMO. Has me to thinking, there is more than one killer. I find it hard to believe one person could have killed the victims, burned the home down and abducted both girls single-handedly.

    That hadn't really crossed my mind before....

    What do ya'll think?


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  17. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairy1 View Post
    It's yet another interesting twist, IMO. Has me to thinking, there is more than one killer. I find it hard to believe one person could have killed the victims, burned the home down and abducted both girls single-handedly.

    That hadn't really crossed my mind before....

    What do ya'll think?
    Yeah. I'm no profiler at all but the scenario that comes to my mind is:

    A male and female, or two males, committed this crime. A home invasion essentially, but for reasons or motives unknown.
    The first person murdered Kathy and Danny somewhat swiftly in a struggle, while the other restrained Ashley and Lauria (by threat of weapon and then manually perhaps?) The 1st person robbed the home and placed accelerant around (why in the kitchen?) while other person remained with Ashley and Lauria. Both people then moving Ashley and Lauria to their vehicle, lit accelerant- and drove away. And subsequently murdered Ashley and Lauria at a location within a couple hours drive of the home, then dumped them several miles of that location.

    The thing that really makes me scratch my head....and I think is key to the location of Ashley and Lauria...is why this particular home, on this particular night? If these people knew the Freemans and Lauria, would they have gone to a familiar place after killing Danny and Kathy? If they did not...then where would they have headed??


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  19. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oriah View Post
    Yeah. I'm no profiler at all but the scenario that comes to my mind is:

    A male and female, or two males, committed this crime. A home invasion essentially, but for reasons or motives unknown.
    The first person murdered Kathy and Danny somewhat swiftly in a struggle, while the other restrained Ashley and Lauria (by threat of weapon and then manually perhaps?) The 1st person robbed the home and placed accelerant around (why in the kitchen?) while other person remained with Ashley and Lauria. Both people then moving Ashley and Lauria to their vehicle, lit accelerant- and drove away. And subsequently murdered Ashley and Lauria at a location within a couple hours drive of the home, then dumped them several miles of that location.

    The thing that really makes me scratch my head....and I think is key to the location of Ashley and Lauria...is why this particular home, on this particular night? If these people knew the Freemans and Lauria, would they have gone to a familiar place after killing Danny and Kathy? If they did not...then where would they have headed??
    I really wonder if the killer(s) followed the girls in from town.

    But then, how could they know about the arrowheads? Or that there was anything in the home worth stealing?

    Were the girls the target all along?

    I have to admit, the "more than one perp" has me leaning toward the LE theory.


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  21. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairy1 View Post
    I really wonder if the killer(s) followed the girls in from town.

    But then, how could they know about the arrowheads? Or that there was anything in the home worth stealing?

    Were the girls the target all along?

    I have to admit, the "more than one perp" has me leaning toward the LE theory.
    The thought of the killers following them in from town... I wonder if there was surveillance video at the Walmart or elsewhere in town, like the Pizza Hut. It likely wouldn't exist any more, but I wonder if LE pulled it at the time. It would have cleared up the question of where they ate. And maybe picked up anything or anyone who might have interacted with them, or left at the same time etc.
    Wonder if the DOT keeps footage that long. Hmm.


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  23. #267
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    Hi I am totally new to this forum, but have been lurking for a while.

    I must admit this case now has me hooked.

    I think oriah has a point about the surviellance cameras. It would be useful to see if they had any follwers on that night.


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  25. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKgirl View Post
    Hi I am totally new to this forum, but have been lurking for a while.

    I must admit this case now has me hooked.

    I think oriah has a point about the surviellance cameras. It would be useful to see if they had any follwers on that night.
    Hi and welcome and thank you for taking an interest in this case!

    There are a couple routes that they might have taken that have/had traffic cams on them at the time.
    http://oktraffic.org/map.php?location=statewide

    How can I find out if that info was pulled during the investigation though?? Need help here.....


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  27. #269
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    Bumping for our girls here....

    I can't find anything where LE even looked for surveillance video at the time. So I guess that's useless.
    DOT has tapes, but they have them sporadically in all years.
    So scratch that thought....


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  29. #270
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    a thing or two

    I have been trying to find time to go back & read the case through from the beginning
    & then all the posts that follow after. So far I have not yet finished reading all the posts
    but I have noticed a couple of things that seem interesting:

    1. I have not heard of any evidence that would indicate a suspect
    vehicle of any kind was at the home.
    2. I have not seen a google earth overhead view of the house &
    surrounding area but the location sounds sort of as if it was away from
    other homes, at least far enough away that people being murdered did not prompt any
    calls to LE from curious neighbors wanting to know what all the fuss was about.
    3. There seems to have been only about 3 types of things missing from
    the crime scene so far as I have been able to glean from the posts read
    so far (the girls, possibly some money, arrowheads.)


    Thoughts: Although one usually thinks of the girls in such cases as probably having been
    murdered and dumped somewhere this almost sounds a little like a much more violent
    version of what happened to Elizabeth Smart. I also remember a few years ago there
    was another case on websleuths about a family that was murdered in their home
    because the murderer wanted the young boy and the young girl for use as his torture
    playthings. He did kill the boy but the little girl survived until much later when the perp
    was caught & the girl was rescued by L.E. In both those cases the perp spent lots
    of time camping/living outdoors to have more privacy with their victims.

    Since the girls are missing I would suppose that the perp(s) wanted to spend much more
    time with them than just the one night permitted them if they stayed in the home
    crime scene.

    My question would be 'just how much more time?' only a day or so . . . . .or perhaps
    much longer. Could they still be held somewhere even after all this time? I remember that
    the Duggard(sp?) girl was found alive having been held captive for years & had daughters
    by her abducter so I suppose it is at least possible these two from this case might be
    alive as unlikely as it might seem. Perhaps possible, but without more evidence I can't
    move it into the probable category.

    Even if they were held somewhere only a few more hours where would that have been
    possible? Are there outdoor places nearby with enough privacy for camping a
    few hours to do bad stuff?

    So far I tend to discount both LE being involved & also the other case the docudrama(?)
    was about. This post is already too long to go into detail as to why but for now let me
    just say those possibilities don't fit with the experience of all the other cases I have read on
    websleuths & elsewhere over the years.

    I do not know if the perp(s) were on foot or if they had a vehicle that no one seems to have
    seen and maybe the tracks were missed. It is certainly possible to have been either
    possibility from the little facts reported.

    I wonder if there were any minor thefts from yards or porches in that area around the
    time of the crime. Or did anyone stop at other homes and say their car was breaking down
    or running out of gas etc.


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