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  1. #1

    Logistics Analysis: How to get child's body into a stroller while wrangling a toddler

    This thread is to analyze the logistics of getting a lifeless (unconscious or deceased) child's body (Kyron) into a stroller, while wrangling a toddler.

    Assumption is that this is done in a restroom or basement, with easy egress from the school.

    Consideration must be given to the risk of someone into the restroom, basement, or room in which this is done, so it must be done quickly.

    Another assumption is that the stroller is big/sturdy enough. (We can try to verify type/size of baby K's stroller(s) later.)

    Another assumption is that Terri is strong enough due to body building experience to get the child's body into the stroller, and to get the stroller and child's body into the truck.

    The big question is - what do you do with that toddler while you put the child's body into the stroller?

    Assumption is that there is nobody else watching the baby, and you have to do this yourself.

    Thanks!
    BeanE

  2. #2
    Emma Peel's Avatar
    Emma Peel is offline Keep your bowler hat on in times of trouble, & beware of diabolical masterminds.
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    So, is this Groom Lake?

    If not, this just is not a remotely likely scenario. It was a very busy day at school, and you'd have to be a time-traveler to even "think" you could pull it off. IMO

  3. #3
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    that gave me chills reading that! I never considered that as a possibility. It reminds me of that case of that missing college girl - they found her body stuffed in that tiny place in the wall! she had been folded into an impossibly tight place =(
    ~Nothing Changes If Nothing Changes~

  4. #4
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    To me, the getting the limp child in the stroller would be easy enough. It would just take under a minute while a toddler toddles around. It's the getting the limp child out of the stroller and into a vehicle that's the problem. IMO, Kyron was very much alive when he walked or was snatched out of school.
    The world is full of monsters with friendly faces and angels full of scars. ~ Unknown

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. ~ Aristotle

    The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.

  5. #5
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    I think that Terri having Kyron hidden in a stroller is unlikely. I don't even think she had BabyK at the school -- no fb posts about how cute or how fussy she was there, no pictures of her there (very unlike T to not take pics of BabyK on any occasion), no mention of her being there in the email we've seen. If BabyK was there, she must have been asleep, possibly in a stroller, but not one with Kyron also in it.

    Now, I guess Terri could have taken the stroller in without BabyK and kept it closed or whatever you do. Then what? Drug Kyron after the pic with him being completely alert is taken or kill him (like you said, basement or bathroom), put him into stroller and hope no one wants to see the baby? No, IMO. Much easier to have him walk out on his own and do whatever it might be later.

  6. #6
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    So Terri was wheeling a "lifeless" Kyron around in the school while carrying baby K on her hip, in essence pushing a stroller with one hand or was baby K sitting on "lifeless" Kyron's lap on their way out? JMO

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    BeanE, why are you interested in this? Is there a link to go with it? Somehow I have missed the assumption this is based on...

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by citigirl View Post
    BeanE, why are you interested in this? Is there a link to go with it? Somehow I have missed the assumption this is based on...
    It came out of discussion in another thread. My biggest struggle is getting Terri and Kyron out of the school. If I can think of a reasonable way she could have gotten an unconscious or deceased Kyron into a stroller with baby K running around, say in a restroom, it works for me.

    Not sure what kind of link there would be. Links are for contended facts. I contended none.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrienne37 View Post
    So Terri was wheeling a "lifeless" Kyron around in the school while carrying baby K on her hip, in essence pushing a stroller with one hand or was baby K sitting on "lifeless" Kyron's lap on their way out? JMO
    Either way, but more likely Terri holding baby K in one arm, pushing the stroller with the other hand.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by STEADFAST View Post
    I think that Terri having Kyron hidden in a stroller is unlikely. I don't even think she had BabyK at the school -- no fb posts about how cute or how fussy she was there, no pictures of her there (very unlike T to not take pics of BabyK on any occasion), no mention of her being there in the email we've seen. If BabyK was there, she must have been asleep, possibly in a stroller, but not one with Kyron also in it.

    Now, I guess Terri could have taken the stroller in without BabyK and kept it closed or whatever you do. Then what? Drug Kyron after the pic with him being completely alert is taken or kill him (like you said, basement or bathroom), put him into stroller and hope no one wants to see the baby? No, IMO. Much easier to have him walk out on his own and do whatever it might be later.
    I know it's unlikely, but I like to explore all reasonable possibilties. Nothing rules this out. I'd appreciate your help, Steadfast. I want to know *how* unlikely it is. Is it just too hard to do? Too hard to do in a reasonable timeframe? etc.

    Take the baby into the school in the stroller, push her around while looking at the projects. At some point take Kyron and baby K to a remote restroom, room, basement, whatever.

    With baby K still in the stroller, incapacitate or kill Kyron quickly. Take baby K out of the stroller.

    Do what with baby K while...

    putting Kyron into the stroller, and covering him with a blanket perhaps. Strapped/tied/duct taped into the stroller under that blanket. Could be done fairly quickly.

    My problem is what to do with baby K while getting Kyron into the stroller. A baby that age toddling around is, to me, too apt to get into the filthy stalls, or even to open the door, or get into *something*. That's what hangs me up about this, and makes it highly unlikely.

    You couldn't carry, eg, a car seat around the fair with you, in addition to the baby and a stroller. That would be way too silly.

    How else could you restrain a toddler while you put the other child into a stroller? You moms of young children - is there a restraint of any sort you can stick in your pocket? A harness you could clip a leash-like end to a door handle or something?

    Wow. That sure would make a toddler... fussy...


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Emma Peel View Post
    So, is this Groom Lake?

    If not, this just is not a remotely likely scenario. It was a very busy day at school, and you'd have to be a time-traveler to even "think" you could pull it off. IMO
    If Terri did this, she did it in a way that nobody saw her and Kyron as they left. I'm just trying to figure out a way a person could do that. If this won't work, it won't work, but won't you join me in exploring it? We'll have tea and crumpets afterwards.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W66miUV7Whk[/ame]
    Last edited by BeanE; 08-15-2010 at 12:52 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanE View Post
    It came out of discussion in another thread. My biggest struggle is getting Terri and Kyron out of the school. If I can think of a reasonable way she could have gotten an unconscious or deceased Kyron into a stroller with baby K running around, say in a restroom, it works for me.
    I have a problem with that also. I just don't think she could have managed it.

    That's why I think someone else did it--someone inside or right outside the school--but I think it is someone who she knew. I think they put him in a trash barrel or temporarily in a closet or something.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanE View Post
    I know it's unlikely, but I like to explore all reasonable possibilties. Nothing rules this out. I'd appreciate your help, Steadfast. I want to know *how* unlikely it is. Is it just too hard to do? Too hard to do in a reasonable timeframe? etc.

    Take the baby into the school in the stroller, push her around while looking at the projects. At some point take Kyron and baby K to a remote restroom, room, basement, whatever.

    With baby K still in the stroller, incapacitate or kill Kyron quickly. Take baby K out of the stroller.

    Do what with baby K while...

    putting Kyron into the stroller, and covering him with a blanket perhaps. Strapped/tied/duct taped into the stroller under that blanket. Could be done fairly quickly.

    My problem is what to do with baby K while getting Kyron into the stroller. A baby that age toddling around is, to me, too apt to get into the filthy stalls, or even to open the door, or get into *something*. That's what hangs me up about this, and makes it highly unlikely.

    You couldn't carry, eg, a car seat around the fair with you, in addition to the baby and a stroller. That would be way too silly.

    How else could you restrain a toddler while you put the other child into a stroller? You moms of young children - is there a restraint of any sort you can stick in your pocket? A harness you could clip a leash-like end to a door handle or something?

    Wow. That sure would make a toddler... fussy...
    I have a 23 month old grand daughter and I see her watching her mother do things (she copies her mom a lot!!!) or even trying to help her, rather than exploring elsewhere...

    JMO

  14. #14
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    well, I have a hard time assuming it would be do-able, b/c IMO that wouldn't be the case, my 7yr old boy has tried to sit in his sister's stroller and it wasn't pushable by anyone.. his rear end hung down so low thru the seat part that the wheels were not physically turnable. He is a good bit younger than Kyron but about the same size.

    BUT, the OP says assume its possible... well... if the stroller has a one hand steer feature that actually works (about as big of an assumption as the first issue) and assuming she was strong enough to push the weight of a 7yr old with just one hand... then she could put the baby on her hip, I suppose.

    Hip carrying a toddler while pushing a stroller or shopping cart is not impossible just not easy and not something you'd want to do for very long. Obstacles in the path such as doorway thresholds, god forbid, steps.. would be way larger impediments than normal. Also, if anybody sees you struggling with a baby and pushing a stroller, they offer to help... which would invite attention.

    So I'd say not realistically achievable.

    Also the "kept it closed" bit.... Baby K is too big for a infant carrier by many months... I mean the kind that snaps on the stroller and between the two sunshades makes a closed bubble for the baby. People push their infants around like that when they are asleep. Except Baby K is a toddler, not an infant... that type of setup wouldn't work.. she'd not fit on account of her longer legs. Most people get maybe 12 months out of those but rarely does any kid fit for much longer, IMO... if they are tallish babies, they likely won't fit even that long. Once they are in the stroller forward facing, even with the sunshade pulled, you'd still have to use a blanket to hide who was in the stroller... and even for toddlers, their legs and feet stick out.

  15. #15
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    Yes they make "leashes" for young children! I"ve never used them on my kids but some parents do; particularly at crowded events in order to keep the child from getting lost or taken by an opportunist. I could see TH possibly do such a thing. Also do we know if she had one of those "backpack" baby carriers? Or a sling type device? I used to wear a baby sling when my first son was a baby. I had to give it up, my bad back wouldn't tolerate that, but its possible she had something like that with her. Either of those could have fit on the bottom of the stroller to bring with her initially.
    ~Nothing Changes If Nothing Changes~

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