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  1. #166
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    Princess..Rachel, Rusty, Debra, and myself all lived off Edgecliff road..near Greenbriar Elementary. Renee lived right off James Ave, so it must have been Julie that lived near your friend.
    The runaway and cult theories have always given me a raised eyebrow for the very same reasons you stated,...the presents...lack of clothes...leaving the car..and taking 9 year old Julie with them. It just doesn't make any sense why they would let Julie tag along, take the time to pick up layaway items, & go shopping for more Christmas presents if they were planning to run away. If they were joining a cult I wouldn't think they would want the publicity of the missing 9 year old.
    I wish Rusty would reveal his theories. When you look at them from the outside like this they don't seem to make much sense. Rusty was only 11 when the girls disappeared, and i know it was always a sore spot with him, so I wonder if there are things he heard and saw at the time that are giving him suspicions about Debra. One would assume that if Debra had something to do with this, then it is her that is keeping Rachel from contacting her family. Which would only make sense if it was something like a previous poster theorized and was a case of blackmail.
    Hmm...so maybe Rusty thinks it's something along these lines...Debra & Tommy were still having a sexual relationship and Debra, knowing where the girls were going that day but not knowing that Julie was tagging along, went to the Mall to confess to her sister. With the crowded Mall and the young ears close at hand, Debra invites the other girls to go to a park and get high, or maybe to get some liquor for the upcoming party that night, some pretense to get them away from the Mall so Rachel is forced to hear her out. At some point a physical fight breaks out, maybe Debra had planned to get rid of the "competition" all along and had a gun with her..maybe she planned to kill Rachel and Renee and make it look like a murder/suicide..she pulls out the gun and something goes wrong..Rachel grabbed it or Debra and Rachel wrestle and the gun goes off and kills Julie..maybe Renee as well..and the murder weapon was in Rachel's hand...or she shoots at Debra and misses..hitting the other two girls. They freak out of course, quickly forgeting all about the reason they were fighting, and they hide the bodies. Big sister Debra tells Rachel to disappear...puts her on a bus with what little cash she has and, big sister knowing best, tells her she can never return home or she'll get the death penalty for the two girl's murders. Rachel returns to Fort Worth every Christmas out of guilt over the girls.
    Well that's the best I can come up with right now with these "clues" we have from Rusty. Lemme know what ya think


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  3. #167
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    This really is the most frustrating case.

    OK, just playing devil's advocate. It would be hard to find the 3 girls at the mall and even back then, that was a pretty big mall with lots of shops that had their own paging system, so it would be pretty tough to find them.

    Maybe the predator waited near their car until they came out of the mall. Either this person recognized their car or saw them get out of their car. The predator could have done something to make them come with him or her, like take the distributor cap or remove the cables from the battery. Then, the car is disabled, but the predator happens to be there to 'help' them. The predator just pulls up like s/he's just passing by and offers to help and all 3 girls get in the car for a drive to nowhere.
    Later the predator returns and makes a quick fix to the car so no one knows what happened.

    Since there were wrapped Christmas presents in the car, I am theorizing that the girls were confronted by someone after they finished shopping and were putting the presents in the car or they get in the car and it won't start and they get out, lock the car and start to go back in the mall to call family for help when someone approaches to "help" them.

    Yet, how could 1 person subdue 3 girls? So logically it was either someone they knew or more than one person.

    Then thinking logically, what the heck happened to the bodies? 1 body is hard enough to dispose of, 2 - 3 much more difficult. If they were shot or stabbed, there would have been blood where that happened and probably also on the killer.

    It would be helpful to know where the various players in this case were during the time the girls were at the mall leading up to their disappearance. I do think the security guard's story is more than bizarre. Especially with all the press coverage of this case and not coming forward until 2000. Not knowing the girls were still missing is pretty unbelievable.

    TexasSandman: As to your theory, it's hard to know. Was this woman large and strong enough to dispose of 1 to 2 bodies? Did she have access to guns at home? Would Rachel, as an adult be naive enough to believe she would be in trouble with the law for a self-defense type incident? Why wouldn't she hire a defense attorney, tell him her story and turn herself in? If one or more of the other girls were shot and killed accidentally while Rachel was defending herself, I doubt there is a court in the land that would convict her. Even if she was involved in hiding the bodies, I think most juries would be sympathetic to her, especially if she was betrayed by a family member.


  4. #168
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    This link is to a very detailed article about the serial killer Curtis Brown who may have killed 30 women in Ft. Worth in the early to mid 1980's. He appears to have moved to Ft. Worth in 1983, after getting out of prison for armed robbery, to live with his mom and the killings began immediately afterwards. Apparently when he was 13 there was a house fire where his mom was burned and 2 younger siblings died and he escaped unscathed. It makes one wonder exactly what caused the fire.

    http://www.officialcoldcaseinvestiga...ead.php?t=7307

    I don't believe he is related to the trio case since it appears he was not in Ft. Worth until 1983. I am very happy to learn the serial killings have finally been solved, albeit 20 years later.


  5. #169
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    I bought a copy of the article by Mike Cochran. There isn't much new information with the exception of this:

    In 2001, 20 new witnesses emerged some of whom said they saw the girls on the day that they disappeared. Homicide detective Dan Boetcher believes that they left the mall with someone they trusted and is quoted in the article:
    " "We can say that they were at one point seen with one individual, but we believe there was more than one involved."
    Detectives have narrowed the number of suspects to "under five," he said. They believe that after leaving the mall, the girls encountered "foul play and met up with some unfortunate circumstances." "

    These statements make me think that perhaps one of the girls was specifically targeted and the other two may have been "collateral damage" in this case. It seems to me the girls had finished their Christmas shopping and put the gifts in the car and then went with this person or persons with the plan of doing something for a short amount of time nearby and then coming back to their car and go home in time for the party. Perhaps they were going to buy drugs or alchohol. Or thought they were.


  6. #170
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    Yeah from what I can tell Curtis Brown was around 12 or 13 at the time of the Trio case. But that was certainly a good read..I was in high school at the time of all those murders and I don't recall anythign about the city being "gripped in fear". Many of those victims were murdered or found in areas I ran in..I do recall the body being found in TCU lake tho...I remember the gruesomeness of it because college kids found her head.

    Interesting find on the Cochran article tho..I wonder who they were seen with..that's the first I've ever heard of that. I'd love to know who the five suspects are..I'm sure Debra is one of them, and perhaps Tommy..but that still leaves 3 unknowns.
    Also, If Debra took the polygraph in '91, why were the families still asking her to cooperate and take one in response to her answers in the 2000 article?
    You're right, this is indeed a frustrating case. I still haven't heard anything back from the FWPD Missing Persons Division..I am going to try and call them directly this next week..I have GOT to see the public records on this.


  7. #171
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    Just listened to Rusty's radio interview on the missingtrio website and heard a couple of things. First off he seems to think something happened to Julie that made the older girls run...he says they were seen at a gas station the following morning getting into the pickup truck of the station's owner, and he stated to an employee that he was taking them to the bus station to head to Houston but first was going to get him a "little". Rusty goes on to say that that same employee went to his boss' house a few days later and saw blood stains and fresh digging in the yard. Rusty states the man would be in his 80's at the time of the interview and they have been unable to locate him.
    Rusty then goes on to say there was another suspect, a family friend, but doesn't give a reason why and says the man is now deceased. And he never was a suspect until after he was dead.
    Apparently Debra did indeed take a polygraph and the results indicated, at least in Rusty's viewpoint, she may know more about the disappearences than she has revealed.

    He says more than once that the case centers around young Julie. "Something had to happen to her to make the other two not come home. And yes I'm saying I think she's alive." Refering to Rachel

    He is also estranged from his mother Fran over this. (I knew she didn't share his theories but didn't know they were no longer speaking)

    The biggest thing that struck me is the interviewer asked why Rachel wouldn't have contacted him and Rusty says "Whos to say she hasn't?" The interviewer didn't seem to catch this and says "And you just don't know about it?"
    Rusty stammers and then says "Yeah, who's to say that she hasn't? And that ought to open alot of doors for you if you think about it with what I told you wallago."
    I listened three times and it sure seems to me that Rusty is eluding to the fact that he has indeed heard from her.
    Rusty seemed to think there would be something enlightening very soon, he said something about the police interviewing someone soon, and at the end he restates the recent polygraph.
    If you haven't listened to it, I highly recommend doing so. I had to install a plugin for it but it was quick and was direct from microsoft. It's in the upper left corner of the missingtrio.com website. It will also let you watch a local TV News segment on the girls. Nothing new mentioned in it but they do restate that the police think they left with someone they knew, and then met with foul play.
    With the 35th anniversary approaching I am hopeful we will see more press releases and interviews. This case needs another big round of media coverage. DNA has been mentioned several times, and that was in 2000 or 2001, methods and technology have come a long way since then..maybe it's time to examine the evidence once more.


  8. #172
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    "Blood stains and fresh digging in the yard" ?! Well if Rusty knows who this gas station employee is, who cares if they can find the owner today, all the police need to know is where he lived at the time! My gosh, why on earth wouldn't this guy report this to the police when he saw it? And even so, years later, he should report it and the police need to go to that house and check - no matter who lives there now, the blood evidence should still be present, even if the house has been redecorated and repainted. Even if the the guy can't remember where the man lived, he must know what neighborhood and what gas station he owned. The police could figure it out from there.

    But NO MATTER what happened to Julie, if one or both are alive, there is NO reason for the other two girls to stay away. They are ruining their parents/family's and the Mosely family's lives by staying away. It is obvious from the circumstances that this could not be a premeditated murder by the older two girls - worst case scenario it might be accidental manslaughter, but I really doubt that they would be punished for some misadventure that happened when they were teens and underage minors at that. If any of these girls are still alive, they must, MUST come back. In case they read here, my suggestion is that they hire a criminal attorney and explain to him what happened and get his advice on how to handle this. They can do this in a one hour consultation to limit the cost to them. I seriously doubt that they are in as much trouble as they may believe they are. After hearing their story, the attorney may even agree to work for them pro bono due to the infamous nature of this case.


  9. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD Byrd View Post
    Is "I know I'm going to catch it" something that a kid would have said? I've heard of it, but it seems very distinctive...
    I've heard it quite a bit. Going to catch it, going to get it... meaning trouble... Not sure I'd say it was necessarily a boy or girl thing... or a regional thing even... but I would say it speaks of another time. (LOL, perhaps that has to do with these days kids usually don't catch it for anything they do... or so it seems ;-)
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  10. #174
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    TexasSandman (welcome!) and Princess Rose, I just want to say I am so glad to see the discussion going on.

    Of course I am once again signing on late and wishing I had more time tonite to put in here. In an effort to participate without making too many posts I'm going to quote within this one some of the things I wanted to comment on.

    TexasSandman said:
    The PI that died by "suicide" is very strange to me. Why in the world would he want the records destroyed? After all that time investigating and with even the slightest chance he had found a single thing the police had overlooked would he risk destroying a chance at the truth? A chance to be the hero and help this family finally rest? Even after his own death. I find that hard to believe.
    I go back and forth regarding the destruction of any papers from the private investigator. Part of me says... if he were investigating for me (but for some odd reason had not filled me in on what he may have documented) I would actually appreciate the destruction of whatever it was.... because in order for it to (hopefully) get to me after his death... it would have to go thru someone else and the private nature is lost. Eh... I only like that idea about 10%. The other 90% constantly likes the idea that this private investigator had nothing of value and papers being destroyed is a convenient way of never letting it be known for sure that said private eye had done a poor job and perhaps even shafted the client in truth.

    I won't keep quoting from your post but I am still responding to things you've written, TexasSandman:

    I feel sad when I think of Rusty, in particular. I immediately sensed he was obsessive regarding his theories.. and truly, I can imagine why he would be... I most likely would be too. But I think if he really had (or if anyone, like friends who had seen Rachel at Christmas times) a valid reason for believing Rachel was alive and making these annual eery visits... he would have come out with it... explained his reasoning. I feel that he's thought thru enough to give himself reasons why she cannot contact him or others but yet this reasoning keeps her alive for him. He doesn't have to truly and finally cope with the probable fact that she's dead. It's his way of coping with the trauma.

    From all I've read (articles, discussion, the missingtrio site) I get the feeling the only reason a shadow of doubt was cast on Debra was that she had dated Rachel's husband prior to their marriage, and the living arrangement at the time, and the thing about her having been asked if she wanted to go shopping that day and she opted not to. The first two things alone are just the juicy gossipy type of stuff that they make those harlequin novels out of, isn't it?! And the third thing just adds that shadowy touch...

    Quite often in families where this kind of tragedy and mystery has ocurred it seems to continue on, another round or two... no doubt some percieved and some quite real due to choices made in the throes of coping. (The Stayners come to mind (Stephen - abducted, Cary - a serial killer).. no defending Cary Stayner's actions but who's to say if the first traumatic thing hadn't happened that perhaps he wouldn't have developed that twisted desire? Trauma causes changes to the fabric. Sorry to get off track.) It sounds to me that Debra made bad choices (don't we all) but that she recognizes and admits them. I think this hurt her as badly as all involved and unfortunately she's probably had to handle it quite alone due to the "shadows of doubt".

    Seems to me her poly proved inconclusive and that was why even after having taken one others were still asking for more. I remember being left with the feeling that Debra felt she had done it, she had done what they asked and what she could and that was enough. If it's so that it was inconclusive any number of ideas in her head (they all doubt me, etc.) would have likely affected the outcome. I'm going on recollection, so don't hold me to that.

    I hope that you will be able to make contact with Rusty or Debra. I would hope also that they wouldn't mind your sharing some of what you may clear up thru a visit, with us. After all, we all want the same thing... resolution for these three girls and their loved ones.

    I also hope you hear from FWPD or somehow get your hands on the available records. Definitely interested in anything you come up with. And, welcome to websleuths, very glad you found it and this thread!

    Princess Rose:

    Thanks for the links and info from the article. I wonder if "this one individual" they say for sure the girls were seen with... is the security guard?? Ack, if so. Not recalling if anywhere prior in the thread that it was narrowed down who "one individual" could viably have been.

    I'll have to read the Curtis Brown link tomorrow. I'm sure I ran across a bit on him before when really digging into this thread. Which also reminds me just how creeped out I was about the guy (and I'm blanking on his name at the moment!) who was suspected of killing Carla Walker. Several months ago when I was reading all of that I remember feeling like some things were connecting... time wise, area wise, not only with the creep I'm forgetting the name of but with the timing of the girls disappearance.. weaving in prison stints for the creep, the fact that his family had an out of the way farm, and ... the retired detective from the Carla Walker case stating on her site that in searching for our three girls the path of the creep was crossed. (I want to say (if I'm remembering accurately) that for some odd reason they were searched for in an area where the creep had either been in prison or had been released and stayed in that area for a bit.

    I'm probably getting confusing (so sorry) but I'm sure I explained it better a few months back when I originally posted regarding it. The thought of this guy still creeps me out with regard to a possible connection to these girls. I remember also checking on creepo's current whereabouts and finding that he's still in TX.

    To spare everyone anymore late nite confused rambling I'll close for now and try very hard to get make time (earlier) tomorrow.
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  11. #175
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    I have no idea what to think about this case, but I just wanted to say I'm so glad to see activity on this thread. Please, let's keep this thread alive.


  12. #176
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    TexasSandman: I do remember the city being gripped by terror when they believed there was a serial killer on the loose. I was around 20 at the time and going to TCU. There were lots of announcements at the school about NOT walking anywhere alone and they beefed up the security at the school big time. There was a run on mace at the stores - I remember it being hard to get because everyone wanted some. One day while driving home from school on Hulen St. I noticed a pickup truck that kept going the same speed as my car. I was driving a Camarro, so I couldn't see the driver as he was driving on my left. The car started squeezing me over, so thinking he was drunk, I speeded up to get away from him but he speeded up, then I slowed down and he slowed down. I speeded up and slowed down twice more trying to evade him with him following suit. As you can imagine, I was getting pretty darn scared, so I floored it and then suddenly hit the brake just in time for him to turn down the road where the synagogue was being built, hitting the front corner of my car with his rear bumper. He attempted to have me follow him down a road where there was construction and vacant lots but no one around. Fortunately, I had sense enough not to follow him. I memorized his license plate number and took note of the fact that although it was a warm sunny spring day he was wearing a hunting hat with earflaps and the kind of coat deer hunters wear. I drove home, making sure he was not following me and called the police - when I told them my story, they put me right through to the serial killer task force and sent detectives out to take a statement from me that day. The damage to my car was pretty slight - he just clipped the front corner so my dad just had it fixed - it cost almost nothing and my dad didn't want the man to learn where I lived. To make a long story short, it was an African American man. It could have been Curtis Brown. I guess I'll never know.

    Snowme: I think you are thinking about William Ted Wilhoit who hinted to John Terrell, the PI that he was responsible for Carla's murder. He was parolled in January 2003 after being in Texas Correctional System for 22 years.

    One of Carla Walker's relatives has turned up under the name of Mickey on dreamin demon dot com I don't know if I can link to that site here, but there is a thread about Carla Walker. Mickey last posted on April 8, 2009. She is in contact with John Terrell.


  13. #177
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    Yes, Wilhoit is who I was referring to! His brushes with the law (from what I have read) could fit time-wise. I was just checking his status and googled his address and work on record. I pass right by his place on the way to see my sister-in-law... and if that isn't enough to give me the ick-factor... his workplace is just across the road from my s-i-l's home. sheesh. I'd like to think he's nothing to worry over... but I guess I'm glad to know I may be crossing his path. *shudder*

    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Rose View Post
    TexasSandman: I do remember the city being gripped by terror when they believed there was a serial killer on the loose. I was around 20 at the time and going to TCU. There were lots of announcements at the school about NOT walking anywhere alone and they beefed up the security at the school big time. There was a run on mace at the stores - I remember it being hard to get because everyone wanted some. One day while driving home from school on Hulen St. I noticed a pickup truck that kept going the same speed as my car. I was driving a Camarro, so I couldn't see the driver as he was driving on my left. The car started squeezing me over, so thinking he was drunk, I speeded up to get away from him but he speeded up, then I slowed down and he slowed down. I speeded up and slowed down twice more trying to evade him with him following suit. As you can imagine, I was getting pretty darn scared, so I floored it and then suddenly hit the brake just in time for him to turn down the road where the synagogue was being built, hitting the front corner of my car with his rear bumper. He attempted to have me follow him down a road where there was construction and vacant lots but no one around. Fortunately, I had sense enough not to follow him. I memorized his license plate number and took note of the fact that although it was a warm sunny spring day he was wearing a hunting hat with earflaps and the kind of coat deer hunters wear. I drove home, making sure he was not following me and called the police - when I told them my story, they put me right through to the serial killer task force and sent detectives out to take a statement from me that day. The damage to my car was pretty slight - he just clipped the front corner so my dad just had it fixed - it cost almost nothing and my dad didn't want the man to learn where I lived. To make a long story short, it was an African American man. It could have been Curtis Brown. I guess I'll never know.

    Snowme: I think you are thinking about William Ted Wilhoit who hinted to John Terrell, the PI that he was responsible for Carla's murder. He was parolled in January 2003 after being in Texas Correctional System for 22 years.

    One of Carla Walker's relatives has turned up under the name of Mickey on dreamin demon dot com I don't know if I can link to that site here, but there is a thread about Carla Walker. Mickey last posted on April 8, 2009. She is in contact with John Terrell.
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  14. #178
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    Just to give everyone a "heads up"... the missingtrio.com site has been ever so slightly updated. I don't see any new info there but the date on the bottom didn't use to include 2009 and there seems to be some newer code within the site in general. Perhaps Rusty is around??
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  15. #179
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    Hey all..I just got off the phone with Rusty. The main reason there hasn't been any updates in a few years is because the police have requested that it stay out of the media. They are still actively investigating and even used ground penetrating radar on someone's yard recently. We didn't get to talk long but he did make it clear that at this point he doesn't want me to reveal anything here, so I am certainly going to respect that. But he did say that there is a lot going on with the investigation and no one known from the case has been ruled out as a suspect. Rusty and I are going to get together at the end of May to discuss this some more and we plan to talk via email more in the coming days. Though I won't reveal anything he asks me not to, I will try to update you folks as much as I can.


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  17. #180
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    Thanks for letting us know, TexasSandman. It's good to hear that you've talked with Rusty and that something is going on regarding the case/investigation. I can certainly understand keeping his confidence.

    Please do pass on to him, tho, that "we" are hoping for resolution for his and all families involved.

    I certainly hope something breaks in this case!

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasSandman View Post
    Hey all..I just got off the phone with Rusty. The main reason there hasn't been any updates in a few years is because the police have requested that it stay out of the media. They are still actively investigating and even used ground penetrating radar on someone's yard recently. We didn't get to talk long but he did make it clear that at this point he doesn't want me to reveal anything here, so I am certainly going to respect that. But he did say that there is a lot going on with the investigation and no one known from the case has been ruled out as a suspect. Rusty and I are going to get together at the end of May to discuss this some more and we plan to talk via email more in the coming days. Though I won't reveal anything he asks me not to, I will try to update you folks as much as I can.
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