Page 15 of 34 FirstFirst ... 5 13 14 15 16 17 25 ... LastLast
Results 211 to 225 of 508
  1. #211
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    65

    presents

    Diege, do you know where the gift for shawn was purchased , if it was already wrapped it had o come from the mall, which meant they returned to the car which is strange if the gift was small.

    How about the chance they left the center and went to someones house and returned to SS (shopping center) I saw that somewhere and the only way that could be known is if someone saw them or they left some sign they were home.


  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Kaiser Sousa For This Useful Post:


  3. #212
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    33
    If I remember right the gift was from Renee to Shawn and she had when Rachel picked her up from her grandmothers. Thats how it was left in the car. I think someone said it was a plastic car or something. I'm not sure.


  4. The Following User Says Thank You to deige For This Useful Post:


  5. #213
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    33
    Also now that I think about it you are right about the parking lot. Its been so many years and I try to avoid that area because its painful. I think Shawns mothers name was Shawna.


  6. The Following User Says Thank You to deige For This Useful Post:


  7. #214
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    33

    phone books

    I guess if someone wanted to they could probably go to the downtown library. They may have a copy of the phone books from back then. I knew they use to have them from all over the US because I used them for research. But that was 20 years ago


  8. #215
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    65

    Timeline

    So by what I have read there is really no proof the girls returned to the car once they arrived at SS. If they were abducted by force, the parking lot on the east would be the most likely one where something like that could go undetected. What time was it when the families became alarmed?


  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Kaiser Sousa For This Useful Post:


  10. #216
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    33
    somewhere between 2-4 pm. Renees mother kept calling to see if they where home yet. Renee had a party she was going to. She started calling all the stores in the mall she could and having them paged. The FWPD would not come until the mall was closed. The mall was open until 11pm. Those were the Christmas Shopping hours. I'm fixing to take my Mom to dinner. I will ask her. I hate asking her because it causes so much hurt. We talk about her a lot but all we can do is speculate.


  11. The Following User Says Thank You to deige For This Useful Post:


  12. #217
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    65
    when did someone first go to the mall to look?


  13. #218
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    33
    I am not exactly sure but it seems like they found the car before dark but couldn't get the Police to come until the mall closed. The police really let us down. When they did come they wrote them up as a pink slip. Which back then I think meant runaways. How stupid can someone be to think 2 teenagers would run away two days before Christmas WITH a 9 yr old !!!!


  14. The Following User Says Thank You to deige For This Useful Post:


  15. #219
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,174
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser Sousa View Post
    Hello, I am new here, but very familar with this case. I grew up in Fort Worth in the same neighborhood as Tommy Trlica. Seminary South was our hangout for Saturday afternoons in the 60's.

    I was doing a search on a Texas Divorce and Marriage record site a year or so ago. I knew one of Tommy's Wives during the early 70's, I was looking to see how long that marriage lasted when I noticed that the divorce or marriage with his wife after Rachel was in Throckmorton or she showed her residence as being in Throckmorton. If the postage stamp was done in Throckmorton thats weird cause you could live in Texas for 5o years like me and not hear the town of Throckmorton mentioned twice in the same decade, very small town in the middlle of no where. I cant find that site anymore to go back and look again.

    Did someone ever come up with what day the letter showed up?
    I found the site where you can download free Texas Marriage records:

    http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/vs/marri...ce/mindex.shtm

    Do you remember what year Tommy married the wife after Rachel? Or Diege, can you help with this information? Do you remember how long it was after Rachel's disappearance that Tommy go remarried? The county is Throckmorton, btw. I guess after you download the list, the records are then organized by county.
    Last edited by Balthazar; 06-07-2009 at 04:24 PM.


  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Balthazar For This Useful Post:


  17. #220
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,174
    I've been giving the note some more thought. For reference, here is the text:

    "I know I'm going to catch it, but we just had to get away. We're going to Houston. See you in about a week. The car is in Sear's upper lot. Love Rachel."

    First of all, I agree, a career criminal would not write a note like this. It seems to me it was written without preplanning - the pen ran out of ink, they had to switch to pencil. The sheet of paper was wider than the envelope. These things make me think this was written by someone who had never worked in an office or gone to college. The switching from pen to pencil leads me to theorize it may have been written by a teen scrambling around in their car or bookbag for something to write with. I theorize teen here, because back then, we all had to carry a pen and a pencil to school - that was required in high schools in Ft. Worth at the time. The possibility remains that this is an uneducated adult.

    In the case of this sort of abduction and a career criminal, there would either be no note or the note would be designed to taunt and torment the families in some way and/or ask for ransom.

    There is the obvious part of the note, which is to throw the police and families off the trail and delay the search for the girls. But since the note was sent from Throckmorton or Weatherford, which is in the exact wrong direction if you are traveling from the Mall to Houston, it reveals that the person writing the note either wasn't smart enough not to think of that or was trying to signal she was in trouble (if Rachel or one of the other girls wrote it.)

    In addition, there is some subtext to the note.

    1. Whoever wrote the note may have felt guilty about leaving the car behind, but I believe it is actually intended to get the car back to whoever owns it or has rights to it as soon as possible. No career criminal would care about that, but a teen might and so would someone who owned the car. So we have a note that shows the person wanted to slow down the investigation into the disappearance and simultaneously wanted to get the car back to the owner, and I suppose that was either Rachel or Tommy, in Rachel's absence.

    It seems to me that the writer was naive about the way the police would investigate this case. It seems like the writer or person who dictated the note (we don't know which it was) thought the note would slow the investigation, but the car seems to be the prioirity.

    2. Possible emotional investment in the Christmas present for Shawn and getting it to him in time for Christmas. For most teens, Christmas presents are a big deal. I feel like whoever wrote this note may have wanted to be sure that Shawn got that present by Christmas. The present may have been discussed with the writer or it may have been Rachel writing the note.

    Diege: Some questions, if I may?

    1. If someone had to be with your dad at all times, why did Rachel ask your mom to go shopping that day? Was there someone else who would normally be there to help so you mom might have been able to go?

    2. What kind of paper was the note written on? What color paper? What color ink?

    3. Before you saw this note, had you ever heard anyone in your family use the expression "I know I'm going to catch it" ? If so, who? If not, had you ever heard anyone else use that expression or a variation of that expression such as "You're going to catch it!" For example Renee or Tommy or Renee's mom or dad or any of Rachel and Renee's high school friends?

    4. Did Rachel have any classmates or friends with the first or last name, Houston? If you aren't sure, can you get her yearbook and look for someone with that name or ask you mom? Note: If you happen to find someone, you are not allowed to post the full name here, just initials. So, just tell us if you know of someone by that name or found someone with that name.

    5. Was there anything about the word Houston that you associate with your sister? For example, did she and Tommy go there on their honeymoon? Did she ever travel to Houston with anyone? I am wondering if there is some reason that Houston was the city used.

    6. Did Rachel normally sign her cards, letters or notes "Love Rachel" with no comma? Girls are usually fastidious about the punctuation at the end of a note. I'm wondering if this was normal for Rachel. I'm sure you or you mom must have cards, letters or notes from her that you could look at for reference.

    7. Who was the owner of Rachel's car? If it was Rachel, who bought it for her?

    8. What happened when the letter arrived? After Tommy received it did he:

    a. open it and then give it untouched by anyone else to police
    b. not open and give it to police
    c. open it and pass it around to you and your parents?
    d. other, please describe

    9. Did police find anyone's fingerprints on the letter?

    10. Have police been able to get DNA off the envelope or stamp? If so, do you know whose it is?

    11. From the article, it appears that Tommy received the letter when he was by himself. Is this true?

    12. What time of day did he find the letter and what time of day was your normal postal delivery. The articles claim early morning but others have noted they remember mail delivery in that neighborhood being much later than that.


    Thank you, in advance for your consideration of these questions.
    Last edited by Balthazar; 06-08-2009 at 01:24 PM. Reason: typo


  18. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Balthazar For This Useful Post:


  19. #221
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,174
    Quote Originally Posted by tatertot View Post
    Princess Rose, as Debra said that was great thinking on the phone book. I would imagine it is the same for all area directories, but I've only seen full first names such as Thomas used in phone books, never nicknames like Tommy. Can anyone verify this was the case in 1974?

    The question remains why someone felt the need to write the letter in the first place. To me it sounds like it was meant to give the abductor more time to leave the area, by assuring the families the girls had gone to Houston voluntarily and would return in a week so maybe they wouldn't be in a complete panic and search as hard as if the three had vanished without leaving a letter behind. But though the families searched hard anyway, the girls still remain missing so it doesn't sound like the letter really served any purpose.

    I don't see the abductor writing this as he was still holding the girls, because it only mentions Rachel's name and as you pointed out that could have been found on her license. I think that if the abductor had the girls with him at the time the letter was written, he would have demanded their names and included those on the letter. It might have been written after he harmed them or sent them away with someone else.

    The fact that the letter says "we had to get away" vs. "I had to get away" also suggests at least two of the girls, one of whom had to be Rachel, were still together at the time and the abductor knew that.

    Debra, I assume none of the families saw the letter and recognized it as being written on stationery that their daughter kept in her desk at home?
    Thank you for your kind words. I remember the Ft. Worth phone book well and that the names were almost always the husband's name and it was always the formal name which could make it somewhat difficult to figure out who was who if you only knew your friend's dad's first name as "Bubba" Jones or only his middle name, which is another Texas tradition, but not his real first name or what street they lived on. I remember calling multiple numbers and asking for my friends until I found the right one. LOL! Before telephone deregulation, the phone company used the name you had on your telephone bill in the directory unless you told them otherwise or had an unlisted number. If you were a single woman, you would use your initials in order to disguise that.

    I think your comments on the letter are very valid ones. You can see my further comments on the letter above.


  20. #222
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,174
    Quote Originally Posted by deige View Post
    I am not exactly sure but it seems like they found the car before dark but couldn't get the Police to come until the mall closed. The police really let us down. When they did come they wrote them up as a pink slip. Which back then I think meant runaways. How stupid can someone be to think 2 teenagers would run away two days before Christmas WITH a 9 yr old !!!!
    IMO the fact that Rachel asked both you AND your mom to go indicates that she did not plan to run away with Renee.

    This is how I thought it through:

    If Rachel asked you mom to go as cover for running away knowing full well your mom couldn't go then it would be risked by asking you to go - you would be a wild card in the mix since teen girls generally love shopping and Rachel couldn't be 100% certain you would say no even though you were still in bed. I don't think Rachel would have taken that risk if she planned to run.


  21. The Following User Says Thank You to Balthazar For This Useful Post:


  22. #223
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,174
    Diege, I would also like to ask you these questions to clear up past questions about Tommy, if I may:

    1. Where was Tommy on the day in question?

    2. Based on what he told you, why was he divorced from his first wife when his son was younger than 2?

    3. What sort of job did he have at the time? Did he spend a lot of time driving all over the place or was it field work such as surveying or was it an office job?

    4. Was there any sort of domestic abuse between your sister and Tommy that you witnessed or your sister told you about?


  23. The Following User Says Thank You to Balthazar For This Useful Post:


  24. #224
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,174
    I also found this interesting website:

    http://www.unsolvedmysteries.com/usm345400.html


  25. #225
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,223
    Great questions, Princess Rose!

    As for Willhoit, IIRC I read his family had a farm outside of Ft. Worth. Anyone have a clue where that farm was located? Although I'm not sure how likely a suspect he is, he's still on the list of possible suspects, and he would fit right in as an inexperienced killer who may have directed Rachel to write the note.

    There was another budding serial killer in Ft. Worth at the time, a guy with dark skin coloring. His family moved up north, and I believe he was responsible for murders there wherever it was. I forget. Then he came back to Ft. Worth & committed more murders. If he's not on death row, then he's likely been executed.

    Deige, what happened to the car Rachel was driving? Was it one your parents had lent her & they got back or did the car go to Tommy?

    I'm thinking if the car belonged to your parents then perhaps Rachel did write the note trying to disguise her handwriting as the only means she had of saying she was in trouble & needed help, and maybe she realized she was going to die & wanted your mom and dad to know where the car was.
    Sad thought.


  26. The Following User Says Thank You to justthinkin For This Useful Post:


Page 15 of 34 FirstFirst ... 5 13 14 15 16 17 25 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 255
    Last Post: Yesterday, 02:11 PM
  2. GUILTY TX - Lisa Underwood (pregnant), 34, & son Jayden, 7, Fort Worth, 19 Feb 2005
    By Gabby in forum Recently Sentenced and Beyond
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 06-27-2015, 06:58 AM
  3. TX Julie Moseley (9), Lisa Wilson (14), Mary Rachel Trlica (17) - Fort Worth TX, 1974
    By SheWhoMustNotBeNamed in forum Missing Children in America - A Profile
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-10-2010, 10:43 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •