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Thread: TX - Missing Fort Worth Three, 1974 - #1

  1. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by deige View Post
    TY Princess. It says my private messaging is enabled. so I wonder why Kaiser can't PM me.
    I just sent you a test PM to make sure it is working right. Check for it.

  2. #327
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    Smile

    got it Princess! Thank you. You are a wealth of information and so very helpful. I have figured out that if the internet were available when I was younger I probably would have never got my children raised. It is very easy to get lost. I don't spend a lot of time online, but I do check and read WBs everyday now. I don't always post but I do read. Kaisers security idea really made a lot of sense. Geeze I wish there were someway to figure everything out. BTW I have an absolutely beautiful grandaughter named Rachael. She was named in Rachels memory. She will be 4 tomorrow. It is amazing how much she looks like my sister.

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  4. #328
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    Deige, - so sweet about your granddaughter, that is just beautiful. I know you sister would be so proud to have someone named after her!

    I still hold out hope that somehow your sisters' case will be solved. It's just a question of finding the right person who knows something that can help - it may be something really innocuous that they don't even realize that they know or recognize as important. Or the people here on Websleuths might somehow make a connection between your sisters' case and other ones. We know so much more about criminals and how they work than we did in the 1970's. I want to believe there is an answer.

    I wonder did the police even search the mall? I know family members staked out the car - did they stay overnight? I'm trying to understand...if the girls were taken by a security person downstairs, could they have been in there overnight and no one knew it? Or was there opportunity for them to be taken out during the night?

    I am still mulling over the mention of Houston in the letter. I feel that is somehow important. If Rachel wrote it, she may have been trying to tell you all something. Did you all know anyone from Houston or with the first or last name Houston?

  5. #329
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    oma

    I can't remember exactly, but there are a few connections to Houston that I can think of. I don't know how they can be related. As soon I post this I expect people will wonder. But trust me when I tell you that LE has turned it inside out. I would have to look at my Moms records. My father underwent Chemo Therapy for Malignant Melenoma cancer at MD Anderson Cancer hospital in Houston. My memory fails me as to exactly which year. It was 72, 73, or 74. I just know it was before Rachel got married. My mom and dad stayed in a Winnabago on the parking lot of the hospital. I think it was for about 6 wks. While visiting my parents there I met a guy named Sam at a disco. He was a DJ. We kept in touch after I came home. Remember the legal drinking age was 18 back then.
    Everyone knows that the guy I was seeing in Dallas and I went our separate ways. Thats how I came to be staying with Rachel and Tommy. Anyway Sam called and wanted to come to spend Christmas with me. He worked at the Disco the night of the 23rd until 2 am and then drove straight here after. He arrived around 5:30 am the morning of the 24th. There was way to much going on for me to spend anytime with him so he turned around and went straight back to Houston. I had forgot he was coming till he got there. We didn't have pagers or cell phones then. I wish I could make a connection to it all. But have never been able to.

  6. #330
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    Isn't she? That Princess is a real Rose of a gal. I aspire to be as helpful and informative, but methinks it ain't gonna happen. I get too distracted.
    Like today there was the Zodiac thread, and that led to the 1946 murders in Texarkana, that led to the fake Texas Chainsaw massacres that led to Ed Gein. Sheesh. All these creeps and I wind up giving myself a good scare.


    Ah, Deige, how sweet and bittersweet about your granddaughter being named after her aunt, Rachel.

  7. #331
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    I was thinking about the Security Guards' story of seeing the girls in another Security Guards' truck at 11:30pm. He said they were happy and laughing, but I wonder if they might have been drugged. What if he had held the girls all day in a room in the basement of the mall and somehow drugged them - maybe put something in drinks he gave them, all the while saying he was waiting until the police or their parents came and he was getting ready to take them away from the Mall when the other security guard saw him with the girls in the truck? The girls might have shown him their car at that time.

    Debra, any idea at all what time the mail pickup was from the substation at the mall? I'm wondering how late he could have mailed that letter there for it to reach Tommy's house by the next day.

  8. #332
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    The only thing I was able to turn up online on the Seminary South Shopping Center was the name of the designer, Lawrence Halprin with Homart Development. Found that on a forum. Also found his name listed with a number of his projects, but Seminary South wasn't listed. rats!

  9. #333
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    Most all the larger stores had a lower floor or basement that was open to the public , so it makes sense that there was a whole lower floor underneath the entire mall whether the store had access to it or not. The security office was somewhere close to the bowling alley for sure , a security guard was taking a guy I knew in there to call the police on him. I cant remember what he did but they dissapeared thru the double doors that were west of Murphys. I heard a loud bump and there came Andy running 90 miles an hour right thru one of those flower displays he was out of the mall before the security guard even got to the door. Anytime I witnessed a disturbance only one security guard would show. Some of the stores like murphys for sure, had their own security.

  10. #334
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    Anyone remember who the DJ's were at that time or remember what the call letters of the radio station were or what type music they played?

  11. #335
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    The theater sat in the farthest Northwest corner, it was pretty far from the main buildings.

    I cant remember the postal place , was it a small building in the parking lot if so what store was it closest too?

    If there was no one in the postal center the letter would have gone to the felix street station or the berry street station for a postmark , what did their postmark number look like I wonder?

    I want to know if the gift from Renee to Shawn was the only gift found in the car. I think deige said the Army-Navy laway purchase was not there but was probablly carried into the mall to find a matching top, is this correct

  12. #336
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    Radio Stations

    I believe FM had taken over by then, I know all the stations and lots of DJ's why do you ask? I think Kzew had started their reign by then.

  13. #337
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    Just curious because when I was a teen radio stations were places we thought were cool, and called when we were bored or visited. I just thought a radio station at a mall might have even more teens visiting, and maybe an older guy hanging around trying to pick up girls.

  14. #338
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    The radio station in the mall was not a popular one at all and was gone by then.

  15. #339
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    So it was nothing but a vacant room or rooms? Glass walls or enclosed space not viewable to those outside?

    Of course what I'm getting at is this could have been were the girls were first taken possibly.

  16. #340
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    I really dont know what was open to the public during the period around the dissapearance, but even in the early days of the mall there were many offices and rooms where the public did not have access. I remember a large room that was opened up for a fashion show/concert that was called "the flower fair" in 1967 , i had never seen this part of the basement opened up before and I remember there were more rooms I saw on that side I didnt know existed. The Radio Station had only one room that you could see and it had a large window with the DJ and his control room. We would watch him sometimes, but I dont think he played records, could have been farm reports or something. The radio station was in the southernmost corner of the basement and there was a stairway that lead to a single door that led to the south parking lot and Seminary road.

  17. #341
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    Diege: In terms of Houston, think about:

    1. People Rachel knew from school or church or anywhere else she went - like at work, if she had a job.
    2. People Tommy knew that had some connection to Houston.

    Also, it's very important to know, did Rachel normally sign cards and letters: Love Rachel - no comma? Did she usually put Love Rachel or something else? That would help us to determine if she actually wrote this note under duress or if someone else wrote it.

  18. #342
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    Last night, I started wondering - could Houston actually be Houston's Restaurant? Was there one in Ft. Worth that Rachel and Tommy might have gone to?

    I also wondered if the police searched the entire Seminary South Mall on the 23rd - did they go into the basements and behind the scenes or did they do practically nothing?

  19. #343
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    From my understanding, LE considered the girls runaways for several days after the disappearence and were basically ignoring the families concerns. So I would doubt that LE performed any sort of initial search of the Mall other than perhaps a basic walk-through to inquire if the girls had been seen.

  20. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasSandman View Post
    From my understanding, LE considered the girls runaways for several days after the disappearence and were basically ignoring the families concerns. So I would doubt that LE performed any sort of initial search of the Mall other than perhaps a basic walk-through to inquire if the girls had been seen.
    Too often that seems to be the case. Instead of erring on the side of caution and treating it as a crime and obtaining any evidence that might be available, they claim the individual(s) are a runaway and blow it off only to regret doing so later. How sad that they were just written off in the minds of LE in such a way. So much might have been gained if that were not the case.

  21. #345
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    All the talk about the security offices sure has my head stuck on the Security Guard that claimed he saw the girls in another officer's truck. I know LE supposedly looked at the person in question, but did they look closely at the person that reported it after all this time? We all know that perps will sometimes try to align themselves with the investigation, provide false leads, or even prove to themselves how much smarter they are than LE. I am just still really disturbed by his comments that he never saw anything in the news and had assumed the girls had been found.

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  23. #346
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    If I had more information or all the facts, I might have a different view, but I think the security guard scenario makes more sense than someone taking them against their will. If someone forced them to come with them I dont think the guy would have tried to do it in the mall and even the walk from the mall to the car in broad daylight doesnt seem like it would appeal to an abductor. Too much traffic during Xmas , that is if the parking lot was the one on the Seminary drive side.

    If they were kept in the basement till late in the evening they might have left a clue in what ever room they were in.

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  25. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser Sousa View Post
    If I had more information or all the facts, I might have a different view, but I think the security guard scenario makes more sense than someone taking them against their will. If someone forced them to come with them I dont think the guy would have tried to do it in the mall and even the walk from the mall to the car in broad daylight doesnt seem like it would appeal to an abductor. Too much traffic during Xmas , that is if the parking lot was the one on the Seminary drive side.

    If they were kept in the basement till late in the evening they might have left a clue in what ever room they were in.
    I agree that the security guard scenario seems the most likely. It does seem strange though that a security guard would have them lock their packages in the car. I would think that the most likely guise they would use would be to tell the girls that they were suspected of shop lifting. If that is the case then why were the packages left in the car?

    I wonder if the mall did background checks on their security guards.

    It doesn't make sense to me that the police assumed that the girls had runaway when there were multiple witnesses that said that they saw something that indicated otherwise.

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  27. #348
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    Okay, if Rachel took the jeans from Army-Navy inside the mall to match up with something else maybe some store thought she lifted them and called the rouge security guard, giving him the excuse of taking them to the basement.
    I guess that would leave a pretty good witness in the store person that called the security guard though. Maybe Rachel was just walking thru the mall with no sack for the jeans and the guard stopped them. Crap, I wish I did have the police reports, to see who all they talked too.

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  29. #349
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    Daisy , Diege says the only present found wrapped in the car was a gift Renee brought from home for Rachel's stepson.

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  31. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser Sousa View Post
    Okay, if Rachel took the jeans from Army-Navy inside the mall to match up with something else maybe some store thought she lifted them and called the rouge security guard, giving him the excuse of taking them to the basement.
    I guess that would leave a pretty good witness in the store person that called the security guard though. Maybe Rachel was just walking thru the mall with no sack for the jeans and the guard stopped them. Crap, I wish I did have the police reports, to see who all they talked too.
    Me too. The police did give the case file to the first PI, so it probably was destroyed. I wonder if the police ever gave the file to the second PI? Seems unlikely as I can't believe that they gave the file to the first PI, and for all we know they did not even give him the complete file. Does anyone know if that kind of thing was more common back then?

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