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Thread: TX - Missing Fort Worth Three, 1974 - #1

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by tatertot View Post
    I'll keep looking for articles as well.

    The mall must have been closed, possibly for hours, by 11:30 p.m. when the security guard said he saw the girls in a younger security guard's pickup. Presumably at this hour the lot was virtually empty, save for Rachel's abandoned car and whatever vehicle the parents were inside while they staked out her car.

    The article said the two guards had a "run-in" and words were exchanged but then everyone laughed and they drove off. Er...with a background in law enforcement, would you allow one of your younger coworkers to cruise a deserted parking lot with three young girls who are out way past legal curfew? I can see him looking the other way while the younger guard cruised with the two teens he might have wanted to impress, but definitely not with a nine-year-old in the truck.


    I wonder how many times during either guard's shift (the elder guard worked for Sears) the girls had been paged over the mall's intercom and whether the pages could be heard from inside the Sears store as well as the rest of the mall. If the older guard had heard the pages throughout the day and all three girls' names were mentioned, why wouldn't he have connected this to the three in the car?

    A few more questions:

    Was the younger guard a Sears employee or employed elsewhere in the mall? Did he work indoors or was his sole job to patrol the parking lot?

    Exactly how much media attention did this case get? Were fliers posted at the mall where the older guard would have seen them on his rounds, or did police return to interview the guards? It's very hard to believe he assumed the girls had been found. Surely the guards must have discussed the disappearance on their lunch breaks or in the guard stations!
    In 1975, there was no curfew in Ft. Worth and many kids and high school kids would stay out or sneak out their bedroom windows and stay out to all hours.

    Carla Walker - the rumor around the high schools was that she and her boyfriend were actually making out in the car at the time they were attacked. The parking lot they were in was for a bowling alley located on the south side of the Benbrook Traffic Circle. According to the story I hear, they had left the car doors unlocked. The killer merely opened the door and wailed away at the boyfriend with a baseball bat. The boyfriend was badly injured and obviously attacked from behind, so, there is no way he could be considered a suspect. As to why he moved from the area, frankly, Ft. Worth doesn't have that many job opportunities compared to other cities. I'm sure he moved for the same reason I and most of my friends moved - to live in a place with job opportunities.

    4- 5 years later the police did suspect there was a serial killer in Ft Worth who was attacking and killing young women at that time. There were several disappearances of young women from around the TCU and Hulen Street areas over the course of a few months. I've never seen proof that any of those cases were solved. I do know the head of one of the young women was found in the duck pond by the frat houses at TCU by some children (reported in the Ft. Worth Star Telegram.) The police formed a special task force to investigate the disappearances, but they just ended, rather than being solved. My thought is the perp was arrested for something else.
    Last edited by Balthazar; 04-13-2009 at 10:35 PM.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Rose View Post
    I, too, doubt the story about the mall security guard. But, I will say it was common practice for the mall security guard to drive you around the parking lots if you forgot where you parked your car. That is the ONLY reason I can think of for them to have been in his truck. If that even happened.
    Yes, and I'm thinking it was 10 or 11 pm (or closing time for the mall) that they were supposedly seen in that truck (if I'm recalling correctly) so it just wouldn't line up with the girls time of arriving there and the time they'd have needed to spend to do their shopping and be back home (and one of them attend a party).

    I'm glad you've offered some local familiarity here. It's late so I'm going to have to come back tomorrow and drink in your posts! I've been meaning to come back and at least bump this thread up - if not get in a little reading time.. and just haven't been able to squeeze it in.
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  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharetheLight View Post
    Did anyone ever contact FW LE?
    I have not. I did attempt an email thru the missingtrio.com site but I believe it was no longer valid. In any event, no response.

    I also attempted a contact (email) of the retired detective on Carla Walker's case. After reading there I thought perhaps he could give me better or perhaps more current insight into why he felt enough of a connection with our missing three girls here to have included a small discussion of their case on the Carla Walker page. Again, no response.

    Hopefully I will be able to set aside some time this week to put a little time in on this.

    I'm so glad to see this thread move... it's definitely not forgotten by me.
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  5. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowme View Post
    Yes, and I'm thinking it was 10 or 11 pm (or closing time for the mall) that they were supposedly seen in that truck (if I'm recalling correctly) so it just wouldn't line up with the girls time of arriving there and the time they'd have needed to spend to do their shopping and be back home (and one of them attend a party).

    I'm glad you've offered some local familiarity here. It's late so I'm going to have to come back tomorrow and drink in your posts! I've been meaning to come back and at least bump this thread up - if not get in a little reading time.. and just haven't been able to squeeze it in.
    I was trying to think what else I remember at the time. I believe that it was very cold that Christmas, possibly even a bit icy in the days after the disappearance of the trio. The reason that matters is because if it is icy in the DFW area, it's super hard to drive here. People don't have snow tires or chains and generally, if it ices over, the schools and many businesses close and everyone just stays home and off the roads. I seem to recall seeing newscasts at the time and seeing their car on the newcasts in the parking lot at Sears and I believe it was raining.
    Last edited by Balthazar; 04-15-2009 at 10:42 AM.

  6. #155
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    Is "I know I'm going to catch it" something that a kid would have said? I've heard of it, but it seems very distinctive...

  7. #156
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    I was about the same age as Rachel but from Dallas. We always said "I'm gonna get it" rather than "catch it". Maybe it was one way in Ft. Worth and another in Dallas or maybe a class difference in matters of speaking. Not meaning to sound snobby here; you know what I mean.

  8. #157
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    Either way, it sounds feminine. Written by a right hander when Rachel is a lefty.

  9. #158
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    *Warning Long Post*
    I actually grew up next door to Debra & Rusty, and got to know them both quite well at different times in our lives, and I knew Judy & Fran (Renee & Rachel's moms respectfully), because my parents were pretty good friends with them. I was only 6 at the time of the girls' disappearance but I do remember Rachel & Renee, and of course this entire incident, and it has peeked my curiousity many times over the years..which led me here.
    The first thing I wanted to point out from posts on this board and news reports is this ex-cop / "security guard" that came forward in recent years and stated he never saw anything on the news or in the papers. That's a major red flag to me because, as someone else stated, this was indeed plastered all over the TV and news for many nights at the time, and every Christmas for years and years after. For him to state he assumed they were found is totally unbelieveable to me, especially if he continued working at the Mall for the days/weeks afterwards as I know it was the topic of discussion for EVERY employee. His claim that he saw them at 11:00 or so with another guard is also mind-numbing. The Mall did indeed close at 9:00 at that time, so one would assume more questions would have been asked about the three underage girls in the vehicle. Were they caught shoplifting? Were they broke down? Could they not find their car? All questions any "ex-cop" would be inclined to ask in my opinion.

    I also wanted to point out that in 1974 the area around Seminary South was not a "gang land" as some posts have stated. Though in later years it did become so, at the time these 3 girls disappeared the area was still reasonably safe. In fact, my cousin and I used to walk from my house to that Mall and all around that neighborhood for several years after this before it became too scary to traverse. So I have always dismissed any "gang" involvement theories.

    Which brings me to another point..someone stated it would have taken the girls 20 - 30 minutes to drive to the Mall from Rachel's house. Not so. In fact it would have been closer to 10, 15 tops if they hit all the lights. Our houses were approx 2.5 miles from the Mall according to Google Maps(4300 Town Center Drive to 5700 block of 6th Ave). If the posts are true about the girls leaving the Mall to drop off Rachel's stepson, which I don't recall ever being said at the time nor have I seen the actual news release stating this, it IS conceivable that they would return to the Mall for more shopping as it would have only taken 30 - 40 minutes out of their shopping time.

    Something I haven't seen pointed out. In a newspaper article posted on the Missingtrio website Rusty maintains, there is a quote of "That, combined with DNA evidence and the way DNA is collected and processed since this case was originally investigated, makes for a better outcome," Boetcher told reporters, declining to elaborate on the DNA evidence.'
    This leaves me to wonder if perhaps the envelope and stamp revealed something not yet released to the public.

    I am unclear on where the information came from that the "letter" from Rachel was received a few days after the disappearances. Everything I have ever heard or read has always said it was Christmas Eve, the day after they went missing, and that the stamp was shown as canceled that same day. This is the one main thing that has always bugged me and I would like to have the same answers as another post. Who normally checked the mail? Was other mail delivered later that day? "Tommy" has already stated he doesn't recall any other mail in the box along with the letter and while the canceled stamp does seem to indicate it went through the mail system properly, it is still a great point of interest for me.

    The PI that died by "suicide" is very strange to me. Why in the world would he want the records destroyed? After all that time investigating and with even the slightest chance he had found a single thing the police had overlooked would he risk destroying a chance at the truth? A chance to be the hero and help this family finally rest? Even after his own death. I find that hard to believe.

    Next...as far as I know..Debra and Tommy never had a relationship after the incident and the notion that she was somehow involved in this is almost laughable to me. As I said at the begining of this post, I got to know Debra pretty good years after this, her and her husband raised their two sons right next door to me, and I really don't think she would be capable of killing her own sister and a young girl, or being involved with someone that could, or keep this secret for over 30 years.

    I had heard through people still on the block that Rusty developed almost an obsessiveness on this and had started blaming Debra and, after checking out his site, I see that is true. While the articles quickly point out Debra was in rehab and she admits to bad choices in life, nothing is said about Rusty. Rusty has fought his own demons over the years and I am left wondering if that, along with this new PI, have aided in clouding Rusty's judgement on his sister's guilt. Last I had heard their mother, Fran, did not share Rusty's conclusion.

    His comments that Rachel, and only Rachel, is still alive and even visits the Fort Worth area every Christmas and yet he won't reveal why he believes this, is very troubling. I would think his site would be chalk full of the known evidence..a timeline..and maybe even last sightings..along with what HIS theory is. Yet he has none of this, makes no attempt to correct disreprencies in the news articles, nor explain why he points blame at Debra. Since the site hasn't been updated in several years and recent or unique news articles on this are slim to none, I am unsure if Debra ever agreed to the polygraph test or not. If not, I do have to wonder why, if she indeed "has nothing to hide" and if she completed the test, did she pass or fail it? Did she leave areas of doubt? Why exactly is Rusty so certain his sister is involved?

    Rusty and I were pretty good friends at one point..heck he was my "boss" at my very first job selling newspaper subscriptions door-to-door, and while he may have done some crazy things in his life and be as bullheaded as the day is long, he is a very passionate and loving person and I know he would not put Debra, and the rest of their family and the other girls' families, through this unless he was certain in his heart of what he believes.

    I noticed on the letter to Debra that everyone had signed it except Fran. I am not sure if this is due to her disagreement with it, or if she had passed on. This goes back to my earlier question of why not publish what they think? Apparently they haven't hidden that fact from Debra..so what could they reveal that isn't already known? I am very curious as to why Debra is being looked at on this.

    Unfortunately I haven't been back to the neighborhood in quite a few years and I have lost contact with most everyone, though finding this site and reading over the facts has me considering a trip by when I visit the area next month. I hope I added something to the conversation and hopefully someday we'll be able to discuss the ending of this case. Someone out there knows something. Whether friend or foe, family or stranger, whomever it is needs to come forward. These girls' didn't deserve whatever happened to them and these families don't deserve the hell of not knowing and being torn apart by accusations and guilt.

    I think I may well take the time to go by and see Rusty..if I do and he doesn't mind, I will post an update here. Maybe I can talk him into a more informative website as well.

    Anyway..I joined the site for this particular thread but Im going to check the rest out..seems like a place I might enjoy.

    Thanks in advance for reading.

    Pray for the girls.
    Pray for the families.
    Pray for resolution.

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  11. #159
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    TexasSandman, no offense, but my family owned a great deal of rental property in the area which is directly across the highway from Seminary South - to the east of the mall. This property had been in my family since the 1920's. Perhaps you don't remember quite how bad that area was in 1974, but I do. It was not a safe area in 1974, and today it is not a safe area, NOT at all. The areas directly surrounding the mall, on the west side of the highway were lower middle class to middle class at the time - not bad at all. But the area across the highway to the east was very, VERY dangerous.

    When I sent out thank you notes for a party thrown for me one afternoon - I had written the notes IMMEDIATELY after the afternoon party and mailed them that evening - the recipients got them the next day and actually called about it as it seemed so unusual. So, I don't know if the note that was supposedly sent and postmarked the next day is real or not. But I do know it is possible based on what happened with my thank you notes from that party.

    And I totally agree, the trio didn't deserve whatever it is that happened to them and their families don't deserve not knowing what happened either. This is a crime that deserves attention and must be solved.

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  13. #160
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    maybe they should look at postal workers that worked back then. jmo

  14. #161
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    Princess I don't dispute that the East side of the highway was a "bad" neighborhood...but in 1974 Fort Worth was not experiencing the "gang" issues that other citys were or like Fort Worth has now. Theres no way my parents would have let us walk those streets if they were dangerous and while there were plenty of "punks" in the area..it was by no means a "gang land".

    I also understand what you're saying about the mail and your "thank you" letters arriving promptly. My problem with this is that in 1974, and many years afterwards, our postal carrier in that neighborhood was not an early arriver. In fact, as far as I recall, our mail never came before noon. Heck there were many days I can recall the mail not arriving until after I had gotten home from school..so after 3 in the afternoon. Since the reports state the letter came "that morning" I am very curious as to whether other mail was received later that day or if anyone even checked. After the shock of the letter I wouldn't be surprised if the mail wasn't checked again until a day or two after Christmas.

    I am sure Tommy's whereabouts for that day have been scrutinized a thousand times...Debra's too..but I would certainly like to get my hands on those reports and interviews. I've seen a few posts around the web where people point at the shoddy police work in this case or that there was corruption and/or a coverup and I would like to determine this myself from all the facts in the case.

    My teeth are now sunk into this one once again and I have written to the FWPD to see how I can go about obtaining the public records on this case. I'll let you all know what I hear.

    Another facinating case from the same area and decade is the Cullen Davis Mansion murders/shootings. Not sure if it is discussed on this board but haven't been able to find anything so far. While it certainly has nothing to do with this particular case..it does go a long way towards revealing the FWPD's detective skills for the time.

    Again with the missingtrio website not having been updated since 02, and the last real posting mentioned the new detectives assigned to the case, I am VERY curious to see the records. The Freedom Of Information Act should at least get me the public records and I am determined to get my hands on them.

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  16. #162
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    TexasSandman: Thanks for working to get information on this case.

    We always had morning mail delivery - at my Grandmother's house (Tanglewood) - where we lived for over a year until the house my parents were building was complete, we got mail about 9 am. Then at my parents house - in Ridglea (different post office) - we got mail around 10 am most days until the 1990's when it started coming around 1 pm.

  17. #163
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    The post office for our area was located on Felix Street..just a few blocks from the Mall the Trio disappeared from. Again I'm not certain but I don't recall us ever getting morning mail there. I lived in that same house until 88 or so..and I remember getting afternoon mail.
    Reading some more news clippings and other websites, Rusty seems to think Debra wrote the letter and I am curious as to why exactly. I saw a posting somewhere that said LE was also of the opinion that Debra knew more than she was revealing..if so...why? And I'm very intrigued about the polygraph..I know if it was me being accused by my family of killing my own sister..I'd take sodium pentathol to prove my innocence...but did she take the lie detector or not is still unclear to me.

    Rusty also states that someone is "keeping" Rachel from contacting her family yet she visits the FW area regularly AND she's the only one left alive. How does his theory on Debra tie into that? And if "reliable witnesses that knew Rachel" have spotted her, why haven't they approached her? I know if I saw her I would tackle her and hold her to the ground until her brother could come get some damn answers.
    IMHO Rusty may have done more to cloud the case than to help it as some of these ideas, without properly backing them up, seem more than slightly outlandish. If you're going to point the finger and make claims..at least explain why you think this. It's been almost 35 years since these girls disappeared...if you think you know what happened...make it public..why keep it secret..make it public and let the masses decide.
    There is very little actual "facts" available on this case and I find that strange. There is only clips and snips here and there and most places provide just the same basic information. I haven't heard back from FWPD but I will give it to Monday and then call if I need to. The 35th anniversary is this year and, as it has been 7 years since the new detectives were assigned exclusively to the case, I'd personally like to see another fire lit under this case.

  18. #164
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    From what I have read, it looks like Debra took the polygraph in 1991. No information about the results, however.

    I too have wondered how Rusty could know that one of the girls survived, but knows the other two are dead, one early on and then one later. This is just thinking outside the box and with no proof or anything that points to this to really back up the idea. But if one is allowed to come back to Ft. Worth at Christmas, but not see her family, could it be they joined a cult? Why else would she not be allowed to see her family?

    Yet, missing the Christmas party and date, the wrapped gifts in the car - these don't sound to me like the things you would expect to see from one or more girls who wanted to join a cult. Why wouldn't they have taken stuff - or at least clothes - with them if that was the case.

    About the mail, it is sorted overnight and deliveries begin in the early morning - so delivery time would depend on where your house is on the postman's route.

    I am a bit confused about where you say the girls lived as one of them definitely lived on the same street as my friend from high school. I wish I could remember the name of her street, but it was off Trail Lake Drive. Maybe it was the 9 year old's house? Unfortunately, I have not been able to find my friend and I have been unable to locate her parents to ask them - they would be in their 80's, if either was still alive. So that may be a dead end.
    Last edited by Balthazar; 04-25-2009 at 10:46 AM.

  19. #165
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    The most recent Ft.. Worth Star Telegram article on the missing trio was published 2006-05-21 by Mike Cochran who is a Pulitzer prize winning author. Perhaps he could be contacted for more information. I found this email address for him. No idea if it is still valid:

    mcochran@iglobal.net

    Perhaps it would be worthwhile to contact him regarding this case? I see he has written a lot about true crime and surely did quite a bit of research for his 2006 article on the trio case. The article is available (for $2.95) from the Ft. Worth Star Telegram archive. I found the article by going to www.startelegram.com and searching the archive for Rachel Trlica.

  20. #166
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    Princess..Rachel, Rusty, Debra, and myself all lived off Edgecliff road..near Greenbriar Elementary. Renee lived right off James Ave, so it must have been Julie that lived near your friend.
    The runaway and cult theories have always given me a raised eyebrow for the very same reasons you stated,...the presents...lack of clothes...leaving the car..and taking 9 year old Julie with them. It just doesn't make any sense why they would let Julie tag along, take the time to pick up layaway items, & go shopping for more Christmas presents if they were planning to run away. If they were joining a cult I wouldn't think they would want the publicity of the missing 9 year old.
    I wish Rusty would reveal his theories. When you look at them from the outside like this they don't seem to make much sense. Rusty was only 11 when the girls disappeared, and i know it was always a sore spot with him, so I wonder if there are things he heard and saw at the time that are giving him suspicions about Debra. One would assume that if Debra had something to do with this, then it is her that is keeping Rachel from contacting her family. Which would only make sense if it was something like a previous poster theorized and was a case of blackmail.
    Hmm...so maybe Rusty thinks it's something along these lines...Debra & Tommy were still having a sexual relationship and Debra, knowing where the girls were going that day but not knowing that Julie was tagging along, went to the Mall to confess to her sister. With the crowded Mall and the young ears close at hand, Debra invites the other girls to go to a park and get high, or maybe to get some liquor for the upcoming party that night, some pretense to get them away from the Mall so Rachel is forced to hear her out. At some point a physical fight breaks out, maybe Debra had planned to get rid of the "competition" all along and had a gun with her..maybe she planned to kill Rachel and Renee and make it look like a murder/suicide..she pulls out the gun and something goes wrong..Rachel grabbed it or Debra and Rachel wrestle and the gun goes off and kills Julie..maybe Renee as well..and the murder weapon was in Rachel's hand...or she shoots at Debra and misses..hitting the other two girls. They freak out of course, quickly forgeting all about the reason they were fighting, and they hide the bodies. Big sister Debra tells Rachel to disappear...puts her on a bus with what little cash she has and, big sister knowing best, tells her she can never return home or she'll get the death penalty for the two girl's murders. Rachel returns to Fort Worth every Christmas out of guilt over the girls.
    Well that's the best I can come up with right now with these "clues" we have from Rusty. Lemme know what ya think

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  22. #167
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    This really is the most frustrating case.

    OK, just playing devil's advocate. It would be hard to find the 3 girls at the mall and even back then, that was a pretty big mall with lots of shops that had their own paging system, so it would be pretty tough to find them.

    Maybe the predator waited near their car until they came out of the mall. Either this person recognized their car or saw them get out of their car. The predator could have done something to make them come with him or her, like take the distributor cap or remove the cables from the battery. Then, the car is disabled, but the predator happens to be there to 'help' them. The predator just pulls up like s/he's just passing by and offers to help and all 3 girls get in the car for a drive to nowhere.
    Later the predator returns and makes a quick fix to the car so no one knows what happened.

    Since there were wrapped Christmas presents in the car, I am theorizing that the girls were confronted by someone after they finished shopping and were putting the presents in the car or they get in the car and it won't start and they get out, lock the car and start to go back in the mall to call family for help when someone approaches to "help" them.

    Yet, how could 1 person subdue 3 girls? So logically it was either someone they knew or more than one person.

    Then thinking logically, what the heck happened to the bodies? 1 body is hard enough to dispose of, 2 - 3 much more difficult. If they were shot or stabbed, there would have been blood where that happened and probably also on the killer.

    It would be helpful to know where the various players in this case were during the time the girls were at the mall leading up to their disappearance. I do think the security guard's story is more than bizarre. Especially with all the press coverage of this case and not coming forward until 2000. Not knowing the girls were still missing is pretty unbelievable.

    TexasSandman: As to your theory, it's hard to know. Was this woman large and strong enough to dispose of 1 to 2 bodies? Did she have access to guns at home? Would Rachel, as an adult be naive enough to believe she would be in trouble with the law for a self-defense type incident? Why wouldn't she hire a defense attorney, tell him her story and turn herself in? If one or more of the other girls were shot and killed accidentally while Rachel was defending herself, I doubt there is a court in the land that would convict her. Even if she was involved in hiding the bodies, I think most juries would be sympathetic to her, especially if she was betrayed by a family member.

  23. #168
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    This link is to a very detailed article about the serial killer Curtis Brown who may have killed 30 women in Ft. Worth in the early to mid 1980's. He appears to have moved to Ft. Worth in 1983, after getting out of prison for armed robbery, to live with his mom and the killings began immediately afterwards. Apparently when he was 13 there was a house fire where his mom was burned and 2 younger siblings died and he escaped unscathed. It makes one wonder exactly what caused the fire.

    http://www.officialcoldcaseinvestiga...ead.php?t=7307

    I don't believe he is related to the trio case since it appears he was not in Ft. Worth until 1983. I am very happy to learn the serial killings have finally been solved, albeit 20 years later.

  24. #169
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    I bought a copy of the article by Mike Cochran. There isn't much new information with the exception of this:

    In 2001, 20 new witnesses emerged some of whom said they saw the girls on the day that they disappeared. Homicide detective Dan Boetcher believes that they left the mall with someone they trusted and is quoted in the article:
    " "We can say that they were at one point seen with one individual, but we believe there was more than one involved."
    Detectives have narrowed the number of suspects to "under five," he said. They believe that after leaving the mall, the girls encountered "foul play and met up with some unfortunate circumstances." "

    These statements make me think that perhaps one of the girls was specifically targeted and the other two may have been "collateral damage" in this case. It seems to me the girls had finished their Christmas shopping and put the gifts in the car and then went with this person or persons with the plan of doing something for a short amount of time nearby and then coming back to their car and go home in time for the party. Perhaps they were going to buy drugs or alchohol. Or thought they were.

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    Yeah from what I can tell Curtis Brown was around 12 or 13 at the time of the Trio case. But that was certainly a good read..I was in high school at the time of all those murders and I don't recall anythign about the city being "gripped in fear". Many of those victims were murdered or found in areas I ran in..I do recall the body being found in TCU lake tho...I remember the gruesomeness of it because college kids found her head.

    Interesting find on the Cochran article tho..I wonder who they were seen with..that's the first I've ever heard of that. I'd love to know who the five suspects are..I'm sure Debra is one of them, and perhaps Tommy..but that still leaves 3 unknowns.
    Also, If Debra took the polygraph in '91, why were the families still asking her to cooperate and take one in response to her answers in the 2000 article?
    You're right, this is indeed a frustrating case. I still haven't heard anything back from the FWPD Missing Persons Division..I am going to try and call them directly this next week..I have GOT to see the public records on this.

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    Just listened to Rusty's radio interview on the missingtrio website and heard a couple of things. First off he seems to think something happened to Julie that made the older girls run...he says they were seen at a gas station the following morning getting into the pickup truck of the station's owner, and he stated to an employee that he was taking them to the bus station to head to Houston but first was going to get him a "little". Rusty goes on to say that that same employee went to his boss' house a few days later and saw blood stains and fresh digging in the yard. Rusty states the man would be in his 80's at the time of the interview and they have been unable to locate him.
    Rusty then goes on to say there was another suspect, a family friend, but doesn't give a reason why and says the man is now deceased. And he never was a suspect until after he was dead.
    Apparently Debra did indeed take a polygraph and the results indicated, at least in Rusty's viewpoint, she may know more about the disappearences than she has revealed.

    He says more than once that the case centers around young Julie. "Something had to happen to her to make the other two not come home. And yes I'm saying I think she's alive." Refering to Rachel

    He is also estranged from his mother Fran over this. (I knew she didn't share his theories but didn't know they were no longer speaking)

    The biggest thing that struck me is the interviewer asked why Rachel wouldn't have contacted him and Rusty says "Whos to say she hasn't?" The interviewer didn't seem to catch this and says "And you just don't know about it?"
    Rusty stammers and then says "Yeah, who's to say that she hasn't? And that ought to open alot of doors for you if you think about it with what I told you wallago."
    I listened three times and it sure seems to me that Rusty is eluding to the fact that he has indeed heard from her.
    Rusty seemed to think there would be something enlightening very soon, he said something about the police interviewing someone soon, and at the end he restates the recent polygraph.
    If you haven't listened to it, I highly recommend doing so. I had to install a plugin for it but it was quick and was direct from microsoft. It's in the upper left corner of the missingtrio.com website. It will also let you watch a local TV News segment on the girls. Nothing new mentioned in it but they do restate that the police think they left with someone they knew, and then met with foul play.
    With the 35th anniversary approaching I am hopeful we will see more press releases and interviews. This case needs another big round of media coverage. DNA has been mentioned several times, and that was in 2000 or 2001, methods and technology have come a long way since then..maybe it's time to examine the evidence once more.

  27. #172
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    "Blood stains and fresh digging in the yard" ?! Well if Rusty knows who this gas station employee is, who cares if they can find the owner today, all the police need to know is where he lived at the time! My gosh, why on earth wouldn't this guy report this to the police when he saw it? And even so, years later, he should report it and the police need to go to that house and check - no matter who lives there now, the blood evidence should still be present, even if the house has been redecorated and repainted. Even if the the guy can't remember where the man lived, he must know what neighborhood and what gas station he owned. The police could figure it out from there.

    But NO MATTER what happened to Julie, if one or both are alive, there is NO reason for the other two girls to stay away. They are ruining their parents/family's and the Mosely family's lives by staying away. It is obvious from the circumstances that this could not be a premeditated murder by the older two girls - worst case scenario it might be accidental manslaughter, but I really doubt that they would be punished for some misadventure that happened when they were teens and underage minors at that. If any of these girls are still alive, they must, MUST come back. In case they read here, my suggestion is that they hire a criminal attorney and explain to him what happened and get his advice on how to handle this. They can do this in a one hour consultation to limit the cost to them. I seriously doubt that they are in as much trouble as they may believe they are. After hearing their story, the attorney may even agree to work for them pro bono due to the infamous nature of this case.

  28. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by DD Byrd View Post
    Is "I know I'm going to catch it" something that a kid would have said? I've heard of it, but it seems very distinctive...
    I've heard it quite a bit. Going to catch it, going to get it... meaning trouble... Not sure I'd say it was necessarily a boy or girl thing... or a regional thing even... but I would say it speaks of another time. (LOL, perhaps that has to do with these days kids usually don't catch it for anything they do... or so it seems ;-)
    Please read about Terry and Darleen Anderson at AMW!

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  29. #174
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    TexasSandman (welcome!) and Princess Rose, I just want to say I am so glad to see the discussion going on.

    Of course I am once again signing on late and wishing I had more time tonite to put in here. In an effort to participate without making too many posts I'm going to quote within this one some of the things I wanted to comment on.

    TexasSandman said:
    The PI that died by "suicide" is very strange to me. Why in the world would he want the records destroyed? After all that time investigating and with even the slightest chance he had found a single thing the police had overlooked would he risk destroying a chance at the truth? A chance to be the hero and help this family finally rest? Even after his own death. I find that hard to believe.
    I go back and forth regarding the destruction of any papers from the private investigator. Part of me says... if he were investigating for me (but for some odd reason had not filled me in on what he may have documented) I would actually appreciate the destruction of whatever it was.... because in order for it to (hopefully) get to me after his death... it would have to go thru someone else and the private nature is lost. Eh... I only like that idea about 10%. The other 90% constantly likes the idea that this private investigator had nothing of value and papers being destroyed is a convenient way of never letting it be known for sure that said private eye had done a poor job and perhaps even shafted the client in truth.

    I won't keep quoting from your post but I am still responding to things you've written, TexasSandman:

    I feel sad when I think of Rusty, in particular. I immediately sensed he was obsessive regarding his theories.. and truly, I can imagine why he would be... I most likely would be too. But I think if he really had (or if anyone, like friends who had seen Rachel at Christmas times) a valid reason for believing Rachel was alive and making these annual eery visits... he would have come out with it... explained his reasoning. I feel that he's thought thru enough to give himself reasons why she cannot contact him or others but yet this reasoning keeps her alive for him. He doesn't have to truly and finally cope with the probable fact that she's dead. It's his way of coping with the trauma.

    From all I've read (articles, discussion, the missingtrio site) I get the feeling the only reason a shadow of doubt was cast on Debra was that she had dated Rachel's husband prior to their marriage, and the living arrangement at the time, and the thing about her having been asked if she wanted to go shopping that day and she opted not to. The first two things alone are just the juicy gossipy type of stuff that they make those harlequin novels out of, isn't it?! And the third thing just adds that shadowy touch...

    Quite often in families where this kind of tragedy and mystery has ocurred it seems to continue on, another round or two... no doubt some percieved and some quite real due to choices made in the throes of coping. (The Stayners come to mind (Stephen - abducted, Cary - a serial killer).. no defending Cary Stayner's actions but who's to say if the first traumatic thing hadn't happened that perhaps he wouldn't have developed that twisted desire? Trauma causes changes to the fabric. Sorry to get off track.) It sounds to me that Debra made bad choices (don't we all) but that she recognizes and admits them. I think this hurt her as badly as all involved and unfortunately she's probably had to handle it quite alone due to the "shadows of doubt".

    Seems to me her poly proved inconclusive and that was why even after having taken one others were still asking for more. I remember being left with the feeling that Debra felt she had done it, she had done what they asked and what she could and that was enough. If it's so that it was inconclusive any number of ideas in her head (they all doubt me, etc.) would have likely affected the outcome. I'm going on recollection, so don't hold me to that.

    I hope that you will be able to make contact with Rusty or Debra. I would hope also that they wouldn't mind your sharing some of what you may clear up thru a visit, with us. After all, we all want the same thing... resolution for these three girls and their loved ones.

    I also hope you hear from FWPD or somehow get your hands on the available records. Definitely interested in anything you come up with. And, welcome to websleuths, very glad you found it and this thread!

    Princess Rose:

    Thanks for the links and info from the article. I wonder if "this one individual" they say for sure the girls were seen with... is the security guard?? Ack, if so. Not recalling if anywhere prior in the thread that it was narrowed down who "one individual" could viably have been.

    I'll have to read the Curtis Brown link tomorrow. I'm sure I ran across a bit on him before when really digging into this thread. Which also reminds me just how creeped out I was about the guy (and I'm blanking on his name at the moment!) who was suspected of killing Carla Walker. Several months ago when I was reading all of that I remember feeling like some things were connecting... time wise, area wise, not only with the creep I'm forgetting the name of but with the timing of the girls disappearance.. weaving in prison stints for the creep, the fact that his family had an out of the way farm, and ... the retired detective from the Carla Walker case stating on her site that in searching for our three girls the path of the creep was crossed. (I want to say (if I'm remembering accurately) that for some odd reason they were searched for in an area where the creep had either been in prison or had been released and stayed in that area for a bit.

    I'm probably getting confusing (so sorry) but I'm sure I explained it better a few months back when I originally posted regarding it. The thought of this guy still creeps me out with regard to a possible connection to these girls. I remember also checking on creepo's current whereabouts and finding that he's still in TX.

    To spare everyone anymore late nite confused rambling I'll close for now and try very hard to get make time (earlier) tomorrow.
    Please read about Terry and Darleen Anderson at AMW!

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  30. #175
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    I have no idea what to think about this case, but I just wanted to say I'm so glad to see activity on this thread. Please, let's keep this thread alive.

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