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  1. #31
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    SmoothOperator is offline Sadly what connects all these puzzles is that there's a victim@the heart of each
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    Why did Kyron's case turn to a criminal case on Sunday, June 13?

    I, as several others have already stated, believe that LE were running both a missing persons investigation as well as a criminal investigation from very very early on in Kyrons disappearance. My opinion of why so very early on they not only decided to do parallel investigations but also began to focus in on Terri possibly more so than any other member of the family was due to their initial interview with Krista Porter(Kyrons second grade teacher).

    My opinion is that unlike what Terri has said "that the teacher totally confused what she had said" that Terri had told the teacher that she was going to look at other science fair exhibits and that "somehow" the teacher thought that Terri said that she was taking Kyron and baby K to a drs appt that day.(that info per terri's email on June 5th). I believe that K. Porter clearly understood what Terri said to her that morning of June 4th and that there was no "confusion", none whatsoever. I believe that K.Porter still had very fresh In her mind the exact words that Terri spoke to her that morning. It would have only been a few hours prior to her telling investigators of the conversation, so IMO IT having took place such a short time before Kyron being discovered missing would make it even more likely to have been remembered crystal clear whereas if say the convo had taken place days or weeks prior then I could see the possibility of it not being as "fresh" of a recollection.


    IMO there was absolutely no confusion on the part of Krista Porter about the words spoken to her by Terri that very morning of June 4th. If you think about it, it IS ONLY PER TERRI THAT THERE WAS ANY CONFUSION INVOLVED IN THE STATEMENT OF KYRON HAVING A DR APPT. initially we heard this per Jamie Finster stating in an interview with Oregonlive that Terri was tired of being questioned multiple times and was already on her 2nd LDT, along with the info that Kyrons teacher was hard of hearing and a brand new teacher and because of this she had confused Terri's words concerning a dr appt for that Friday the 4th. Per Jamie Terri said that she had told the teacher the appt was for Friday June 11th therefor the "mistake" or "confusion" was due to her inexperience in being a new teacher and that she also had a hearing problem.

    These two versions of the same exact event, in looking at the two alone draw suspicion. You have Terri talking about a statement saying she was going to look at exhibits being TOTALLY MISCONSTRUED INTO Terri saying she was taking kyron and baby k to a dr appt. Then you have Terri stating that she told Porter that kyron had a dr appt on June 11th and because Porter was hard of hearing and inexperienced she HAD TOTALLY MISUNDERSTOOD and thought that Terri said she was taking Kyron to the dr on that very day, Friday June 4th.
    So which is the true story of how it happened?

    But even if you completely disregard Finsters statement all together because of it being hearsay. The fact remains still that per Terri THE STATEMENT that was made to Porrter was the morning of June 4th(meaning it would still be very fresh in Porters mind what was said rather than it having took place days before), along WITH THE FACT THAT TERRI IS THE ONLY ONE WHO IS STATING THAT THERE WAS CONFUSION IN AND AROUND THE STATEMENT THAT WAS MADE THAT MORNING OF JUNE 4th.

    My point being that Terri IMO IS THE ONLY ONE "putting out there" that there was a problem with Porter being "confused" "misunderstood". When IMO there was no confusion. Porter knows exactly what was said and relayed that to Investigators VERY EARLY ON probably as early as late afternoon of June 4th thus leading INVESTIGATORS TO NOT ONLY DECIDE TO RUN PARALLEL INVESTIGATIONS BUT ALSO TO FOCUS MORE ON TERRI and WHY WOULD SHE HAVE TOLD KYRONS TEACHER ON SPECIFICALLY THAT VERY MORNING(out of all mornings of the entire year) IT WAS THAT SPECIFIC MORNING THAT TERRI TOLD HIS TEACHER THAT this "misunderstood" information that WAS THE SOLE CAUSE AND REASON FOR KYRON NOT HAVING BEEN DISCOVERED "missing" for a full 6+ hours from the time he had actually been missing.

    The entire reason it went "unnoticed" was because of what was said by Terri to Kristina Porter on that very morning of the 4th(minutes before Kyron would go "missing"). I believe that K. Porter probably has verbatim the exact words Terri spoke to her that fateful morning FOREVER ETCHED IN HER MIND FOREVER.
    AND I BELIEVE KRISTA PORTER WILL HAVE NO PROBLEM OR "CONFUSION" TESTIFYING TO THOSE EXACT WORDS.

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  2. #32
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    Living in southern California and having watched the investigation for three missing girls--Danielle Van Dam, Amber Dubois, and Chelsea King--it appears that without some evidence of the young person (sightings, telephone response, etc.) the search very quickly becomes a kidnapping investigation.

    After the family members were cleared in these cases (lie detector tests, etc.) and the child was not located (within 1-2 days) the criminal investigation began. The exception was Amber Dubois's case in which there was a telephone ping from her cell the day following her disappearance and erroneous sightings of her by teen "acquaintances" and the public.

    I don't think there is anything out of the ordinary in the change in the KyH case. It was called a "criminal" investigation because to LE KyH did not have the means or capabilities to "disappear" on his own. They had searched to obvious places without finding a trace of him. His family was interviewed and given LD tests. Therefore, LE had to change the status of the case to enlarge the search and continue the the investigation.

    Regardless of the results of TH's LD test, IMO, LE would have been forced to reclassify the case on day 3 or 4 in order to continue actively searching for KyH.
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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmoothOperator View Post
    I, as several others have already stated, believe that LE were running both a missing persons investigation as well as a criminal investigation from very very early on in Kyrons disappearance. My opinion of why so very early on they not only decided to do parallel investigations but also began to focus in on Terri possibly more so than any other member of the family was due to their initial interview with Krista Porter(Kyrons second grade teacher).

    My opinion is that unlike what Terri has said "that the teacher totally confused what she had said" that Terri had told the teacher that she was going to look at other science fair exhibits and that "somehow" the teacher thought that Terri said that she was taking Kyron and baby K to a drs appt that day.(that info per terri's email on June 5th). I believe that K. Porter clearly understood what Terri said to her that morning of June 4th and that there was no "confusion", none whatsoever. I believe that K.Porter still had very fresh In her mind the exact words that Terri spoke to her that morning. It would have only been a few hours prior to her telling investigators of the conversation, so IMO IT having took place such a short time before Kyron being discovered missing would make it even more likely to have been remembered crystal clear whereas if say the convo had taken place days or weeks prior then I could see the possibility of it not being as "fresh" of a recollection.


    IMO there was absolutely no confusion on the part of Krista Porter about the words spoken to her by Terri that very morning of June 4th. If you think about it, it IS ONLY PER TERRI THAT THERE WAS ANY CONFUSION INVOLVED IN THE STATEMENT OF KYRON HAVING A DR APPT. initially we heard this per Jamie Finster stating in an interview with Oregonlive that Terri was tired of being questioned multiple times and was already on her 2nd LDT, along with the info that Kyrons teacher was hard of hearing and a brand new teacher and because of this she had confused Terri's words concerning a dr appt for that Friday the 4th. Per Jamie Terri said that she had told the teacher the appt was for Friday June 11th therefor the "mistake" or "confusion" was due to her inexperience in being a new teacher and that she also had a hearing problem.

    These two versions of the same exact event, in looking at the two alone draw suspicion. You have Terri talking about a statement saying she was going to look at exhibits being TOTALLY MISCONSTRUED INTO Terri saying she was taking kyron and baby k to a dr appt. Then you have Terri stating that she told Porter that kyron had a dr appt on June 11th and because Porter was hard of hearing and inexperienced she HAD TOTALLY MISUNDERSTOOD and thought that Terri said she was taking Kyron to the dr on that very day, Friday June 4th.
    So which is the true story of how it happened?

    But even if you completely disregard Finsters statement all together because of it being hearsay. The fact remains still that per Terri THE STATEMENT that was made to Porrter was the morning of June 4th(meaning it would still be very fresh in Porters mind what was said rather than it having took place days before), along WITH THE FACT THAT TERRI IS THE ONLY ONE WHO IS STATING THAT THERE WAS CONFUSION IN AND AROUND THE STATEMENT THAT WAS MADE THAT MORNING OF JUNE 4th.

    My point being that Terri IMO IS THE ONLY ONE "putting out there" that there was a problem with Porter being "confused" "misunderstood". When IMO there was no confusion. Porter knows exactly what was said and relayed that to Investigators VERY EARLY ON probably as early as late afternoon of June 4th thus leading INVESTIGATORS TO NOT ONLY DECIDE TO RUN PARALLEL INVESTIGATIONS BUT ALSO TO FOCUS MORE ON TERRI and WHY WOULD SHE HAVE TOLD KYRONS TEACHER ON SPECIFICALLY THAT VERY MORNING(out of all mornings of the entire year) IT WAS THAT SPECIFIC MORNING THAT TERRI TOLD HIS TEACHER THAT this "misunderstood" information that WAS THE SOLE CAUSE AND REASON FOR KYRON NOT HAVING BEEN DISCOVERED "missing" for a full 6+ hours from the time he had actually been missing.

    The entire reason it went "unnoticed" was because of what was said by Terri to Kristina Porter on that very morning of the 4th(minutes before Kyron would go "missing"). I believe that K. Porter probably has verbatim the exact words Terri spoke to her that fateful morning FOREVER ETCHED IN HER MIND FOREVER.
    AND I BELIEVE KRISTA PORTER WILL HAVE NO PROBLEM OR "CONFUSION" TESTIFYING TO THOSE EXACT WORDS.

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    Smooth, a special Thank you, I have said this over and over, as I think you also have, can't be said enough. can't see how it can be argued. Thank You, Thank You!


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  6. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmoothOperator View Post
    I believe that K. Porter probably has verbatim the exact words Terri spoke to her that fateful morning FOREVER ETCHED IN HER MIND FOREVER.
    AND I BELIEVE KRISTA PORTER WILL HAVE NO PROBLEM OR "CONFUSION" TESTIFYING TO THOSE EXACT WORDS.

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    Bravo, SO!

    ETA: Oops! And apparently you, too, Jo!


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  8. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Jo in Calif View Post
    I would think it would be a few days before Kaine left with the Baby. Was that the 26th of June, BeanE will know.
    Yes, he left on the 26th. If you watch the interviews of Kaine on the 25th, in the order he did them, there seems to be a change, a shift, both in how he looks, and in how he talks. I rarely get into how people look/talk, but this did stand out to me, and I think LE may have talked to him to some extent on this date. Because he said he had 15 minutes to pack and get out though, I don't think they hit him with the big whammy stick until the 26th.


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  10. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Dee10 View Post
    In one of the pressers I believe they gave a point on how many days it was expected a child could reasonably survive. However I don't know if this time corresponded with that estimate and that was the reason for the change to a criminal investigation?
    It was Gates, in a Q&A, in response to a reporter's question. He said something like 'we've had people survive for 2 weeks'.

    I have 10 days stuck in my head, but can't remember where that came from. It seems I remember some of us looked up other cases of children of similar age. It *might* have come from Nadia's case, where LE was more open about needing to find her before that time in which she could survive ran out.


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  12. #37
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    I would be very curious to know if the date they announced it was now a criminal investigation coincided with the time when they learned about an alleged mfh plot from the landscaper.


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  14. #38
    I apologise. The timeline on the Hinky Meter isn't the one I was thinking of when I posted yesterday. The one I was thinking of covers the whole case, and isn't on a linkable site. I got the two confused. The one on the Hinky Meter covers only June 4.


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  16. #39
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    Wasn’t it On the fifth day of the search, (June 9th) ...

    at the news conference by Skyline Elementary Principal Ben Keefer,

    who said he couldn't comment on "an ongoing criminal investigation."

    http://www.kptv.com/news/23834239/detail.html


    Then LE stopped the news conference abruptly....

    Also to add, the FBI's , BAU team was called in on the 7th of June, No way would they be called in for a boy who had wondered away from school.
    Last edited by CN2Souls; 09-10-2010 at 09:44 AM.
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    “These comments are my own personal opinions only and do not necessarily reflect the positions or opinions of others, W.S. or their affiliates. My posts are not to hurt or cause damage to anyone. They are merely something to ponder. All comments are based upon the current information that I know in this case and my own personal experiences. I am not posting as a professional posters and/or a verified locals/insiders* . You should conduct independent research to verify the validity of any statements made in this post before basing any decisions upon those statements. In addition, any views or opinions expressed by posters who quote my post to this thread are theirs and not mind, and I respect that."
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  18. #40
    Quick and dirty. Needs more, but it's a start.

    Fri June 4 - Kyron goes missing


    Sat June 5 - Kaine and Terri questioned by LE


    Sun June 6 - Kaine questioned by LE
    - (any indication Terri questioned this day?)


    Mon June 7
    - Terri takes Poly #1
    - FBI arrives on scene
    - Kaine questioned by LE
    - (any indication Terri questioned this day?)


    Tue June 8
    - Kaine questioned by LE
    - Kaine and Desiree take Poly
    - Ben Keefer, principal of Skyline school, slips and says it's a criminal investigation at a presser and Gates cuts him off
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5563643&postcount=14"]View Single Post - Case Review #1: Thread #4: LE Press Conferences & Release: June 8 2010[/ame]

    - (any indication Terri questioned this day?)


    Wed June 9
    - This is my best guess at when Terri's Poly #2 was, based on complex math plus an extremely complicated SWAG. Take it with a grain of salt.
    - LE calls in extra searchers from around the state


    Thu June 10
    - Reporter chases Kaine to the car at the gym asking questions until Kaine gets in car and shuts door. Kaine won't speak to reporter. (Is this the date this happened or the date video published? Was this actually Wed June 9?) http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/sear...orman-10885840
    - extra searchers from around the state arrive on scene
    - helicopters and horses join search
    - 90% of student interviews complete


    Fri June 11
    - parents speak first time
    - Kyron's clothing shown, apparently at the family's request (per Shults)
    - "There's just no indication on anything we've got at this point that it was an abduction," Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton told CNN. "The child is still characterized as a missing child." Only time LE has said no evidence of an abduction.
    - LE begins searching Sauvie Island


    Sat June 12
    - LE asks for video from the rural roads.
    - LE says to hold off on more donations of food/drinks for the searchers.
    - LE complains in presser about rumors on the net.



    Sun June 13 - search ends/criminal investigation
    Last edited by BeanE; 09-10-2010 at 10:31 AM.


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  20. #41
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    Bean, here on the case calender it says this: Kyron Horman's stepmother -- who became the most prominent figure in the investigation into the boy's disappearance Friday -- is scheduled to take a second polygraph test Saturday (the 19th), according to a friend.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...lton_horm.html

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/cal...2010-6-18&c=10
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. ~ Aristotle

    The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.


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  22. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by SurfieTX View Post
    Bean, here on the case calender it says this: Kyron Horman's stepmother -- who became the most prominent figure in the investigation into the boy's disappearance Friday -- is scheduled to take a second polygraph test Saturday (the 19th), according to a friend.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...lton_horm.html

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/cal...2010-6-18&c=10
    I know, but I think that may actually be the third poly. Sometimes the third is referred to as the second since she didn't actually take the second, but walked out before getting hooked to the machine.

    But... there are other indications that the third was on the 26th, so the second could have been the 19th.

    I told ya it was complicated lol. I've been driving myself crazy with it.


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  24. #43
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    Bean, do you remember the article where Kaine stated that LE had searched the house and the computer(s)? I remember it sorta because it was kind of confusing the way it was written as LE apparently did not search DY's and TY's house (or something to that effect).
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. ~ Aristotle

    The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.


  25. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by SurfieTX View Post
    Bean, do you remember the article where Kaine stated that LE had searched the house and the computer(s)? I remember it sorta because it was kind of confusing the way it was written as LE apparently did not search DY's and TY's house (or something to that effect).
    I remember the video interview where he talks about it and Desiree says they haven't needed to search her house.

    I can't remember the interview date though. My next project is to collect all the parent interviews and statements and then after they're all together in a thread (I've got one set up in the reference forum), I'm going to put them in a list that's ordered by date and has notes on what's in each video/article. It's just gotten too hard to find them, especially the video interviews.

    And since I'm already off topic here I'd appreciate anyone coming across a parent interview in an article or video to throw the link into the parent/stepparent interview thread in the reference forum. Even just the URL would be helpful.


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  27. #45
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    Thank you for your hard work, Bean. I've really enjoyed the case review(s). I'll do my best to help you out with the interviews.
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. ~ Aristotle

    The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.


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